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23 Replies Last post: Nov 30, 2009 5:21 AM by Leftzilla   1 2 Previous Next
bobbanana   1 posts since
Mar 23, 2007
Currently Being Moderated

Sep 4, 2009 5:18 AM

Variax 700 will not stay in tune?

Hi all,

       I have a variax 700, I usually use slinky 9 / 42 strings and have my tremolo setup floating. I'm a college lecturer / recording engineer who has also set up guitars for over 20 years. The variax is a superb guitar in every way, apart from the most basic aspect........it will not stay in tune. I hope the guys at line 6 read this because it is staggering that such an amazing instrument has such a massive flaw. (the size of this massive flaw cannot be exagerated. A guitar which will not stay in tune is useless).

 

       The problem only exists if the tremolo is set to float (the whole point of a great tremolo like the LR Baggs unit....and the whole point of buying a variax 700 as opposed to the much cheaper 300). After using the tremolo, the tuning will be raised or lowered.....it will not come back to the correct pitch....ever. If you dive bomb or even just dip the pitch of a note on any string.....on releasing the tremolo bar the guitar will be flat by up to -12 cents. If you pull back on the tremolo bar to raise a note and then release the bar, the tuning will be up to 12 cents sharp. An interesting point is if you tune the guitar and play without tremolo......perfect tuning. This means the problem is not the machine heads.

 

 

 

Many people on the forums have suggested to each other the following, but I think I have found the reason....and nobody is going to like the answer.

 

 

Lube the nut - This in reality is not a solution. A well crafted nut will not need lube. The 'bone' nut on the variax 700 is not bone...a synthetic bone substitute maybe, but not bone. I've seen other people describe it as chewing gum it is so soft.

 

File / reduce the depth of the nut - At 5 mm the string contact with the nut is too great. Using a file to reduce this contact area down to 2.5mm is a good idea.

 

Install a new nut - a Gibson type drop in from graphtech or an earvana nut (£35 option).

 

Install a set of locking machine heads - Reducing the winds on the tuning post to a half turn improves tuning stability (£60+ option).

 

Increase string tension - changing to a heavier set of strings eg from a set of 9s to 10s (£5 option).

 

Increase spring tension - making sure you use all 3 springs on the rear of the tremolo.

 

Cut the 'condoms' off the springs - Variax is the first guitar i have ever seen with these fitted to the springs. I would love to know why they are fitted (Health & safety?) as you cannot operate the tremolo at all with them on.

 

 

The first thing I had to do setup wise was cut the plastic 'condoms' off the springs in the tremolo as they do not allow the tremolo to operate (literally) without a horrible crunching sound and feel. I have shaped the nut.....no difference. Tried heavier strings and resetup the guitar.....no difference. I usually use a set of 9s with 2 springs on the tremolo, so i tried a set of 10s with both 2 springs and then 3 springs on the tremolo.....no diference.

 

The problem seems to be constant no matter what you do to fix it in the area of machine heads / nut / strings and springs. The problem lies with the electronic cables connecting the tremolo/piezos to the brain unit in the guitar. If you look at the back of the tremolo with the cover removed you will see a thin cable and a ribbon cable attached to the tremolo. These cables go around the tremolo unit and through a hole in the body of the guitar to the brain section PCB.

 

If you watch the back of the tremolo closely as you operate it through its full range, first one way and then the other, you will notice the unit never returns to it original position due to the resistance of the cables/electronics. The stiff cables are in contact with the tremolo.

 

This is a serious flaw in the design of the instrument. A smaller light weight / very flexible connection between the tremolo PCB and the Brain PCB, which stays close to the base plate of the tremolo (which moves a short distance) and out of the way of the block/springs (which move a great distance) is needed.

 

The result of trying to acheive tuning stability with the tremolo floating, would for the average guitarist result in an extra £100 minimum to the price of the instrument, plus around another £100 in repeated setups and fitting of parts. Only to realise it is never going to happen.

 

This is a major disapointment as I have been sold a product which is superb in one way (sounds) and totally useless in another (staying in tune)....It is not fit for it's purpose!

 

I would love a reply from line 6 on this as the 700 is a professional instrument at a price of around £1000. I think line 6 know about this problem. None of the videos demonstrating the instrument on the line 6 website have any use of the tremolo unit. It is probably the reason why the guitars come with the tremolo mounted flat against the body when you buy them.

 

I would also like to know the purpose of the spring condoms?.....was that a bodge to help tuning stability?....in 30 years of playing guitar and 20 years of setting them up professionally I have never....ever seen any other guitar with these things fitted to the strings.

 

 

Come on line 6 guys, have the balls to reply to the customers who have commited to buying the flawed product and time/upgrades, searching for a variax 700  that stays in tune.

 

                                          

                                          Andy Smith                 www.myspace.com/humstrumbangtwang

Crusty_Old_Rocker Checkoutthebigbrain... 1,959 posts since
Jan 24, 2007
Currently Being Moderated
1. Sep 4, 2009 5:31 AM in response to: bobbanana
Re: Variax 700 will not stay in tune?

My Variax 700 stays in tune beautifully.

 

I have set my trem to floating and have made no other modifications with the 1 exception of removing the condoms and changing the trem springs from | | |  to  / | \  like in a Strat.

 

I don't dive bomb.  But I have never experienced any tuning problems.  I would suspect that there may be something wrong with your guitar or the set up you are using.

 

I should also mention that I lock wind my strings on the tuning posts, I do this with all my guitars and have done for more than 30 years.

 

Cheers,

 

Crusty

Crusty_Old_Rocker Checkoutthebigbrain... 1,959 posts since
Jan 24, 2007
Currently Being Moderated
2. Sep 4, 2009 5:33 AM in response to: bobbanana
Re: Variax 700 will not stay in tune?

I believe the condoms were to stop the vibration of the springs being "heard" by the piezo pickups.

 

Cheers,

 

Crusty

Leftzilla Juststartin' 130 posts since
Jan 25, 2007
Currently Being Moderated
3. Sep 4, 2009 8:52 AM in response to: bobbanana
Re: Variax 700 will not stay in tune?

I also have my trem set to float and also have no tuning problems and I have the Planet Waves locking nuts.  In fact when the guitar came from the factory the trem was tightened so that it rested against the body.  I thought for sure it would take some time to get the trem balanced in a floating configuration but I was able to do it within 5 minutes.  I think Crusty is right that there is something wrong with your specific set up and is not a design flaw.

amx05462 Iknowathingortwo 1,542 posts since
Sep 1, 2008
Currently Being Moderated
4. Sep 4, 2009 9:12 AM in response to: Leftzilla
Re: Variax 700 will not stay in tune?

you might want to try a roller nut. i put one  on my strat and  now  nomatter  what i do with the  trem. it comes right back in tune.  i used the  fender one   on mine  but theres  a few options out there ofcourse i put on two more springs  ala  SRV

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Spiderplayer   30 posts since
Sep 23, 2008
Currently Being Moderated
5. Sep 4, 2009 12:20 PM in response to: bobbanana
Re: Variax 700 will not stay in tune?

Sorry to hear your problems. Before I bought my 700 I read some posts on this forum that this guitar doesn't stay in tune, the nut's garbage, the tuners are useless etc. etc. so I was fully prepared to but some locking tuners, get a luthier I know to make me a new nut etc. I've owned all sorts of guitars in my 30 years of playing, including Fenders, Gibsons, a Gretsch, PRS, Parker Fly etc. and my 700 is equal to any of them in its tuning stability and far superior to some (e.g. my 1963 Tennessean. If you want to try to keep that guitar in tune, good luck!). I've also built a couple of guitars and usually do my own set ups.

 

My 700 doesn't go out of tune, the nut is cut perfectly (and believe me I'm ultra fussy about action and nut slots/height etc.), the action is perfect (I use regular Slinkys and I've set the trem to float). My guess is that your guitar is faulty. If it's still under warranty (or even if it's not), I would get it looked at by Line 6.

 

Good luck!

DEyre   6 posts since
Jun 3, 2007
Currently Being Moderated
6. Oct 13, 2009 6:15 AM in response to: bobbanana
Re: Variax 700 will not stay in tune?

Hi from Dave, yes same prob just had mine looked at the repairer filed the nut got it home and it's no differnt you pull the trem back slightly and it's anybody's guess what tune it's in ! Im at a loss.

amx05462 Iknowathingortwo 1,542 posts since
Sep 1, 2008
Currently Being Moderated
7. Oct 13, 2009 2:41 PM in response to: DEyre
Re: Variax 700 will not stay in tune?

sounds  like  not enough spring tension. how  many springs  on  the  tremelo?  or   you need to replace   the nut  with a  roller nut  as pictured  above two posts  ago.

 

  one important thing  about a  two post  tremelo vs  a 6 screw one  is  both posts  must be of equal  height.

Jeummah   2 posts since
Aug 23, 2008
Currently Being Moderated
8. Nov 12, 2009 7:38 PM in response to: bobbanana
Re: Variax 700 will not stay in tune?

Andy and Line 6 Dudes;

 

I experience the same as you, Andy -- exactly. Whenever I use the tremelo I can count on the 3rd string to jump a half step and who knows what other ones will change. I did one thing differently -- I got a wide/thin Warmouth neck for it. It didn't fit with adequate action so I had to put a heavy pick betwixt the screws which works just dandy. Now if the thing would just stay in tune.

 

Have you made any progress towards a solution?

 

Thanks,

Jim

amx05462 Iknowathingortwo 1,542 posts since
Sep 1, 2008
Currently Being Moderated
9. Nov 13, 2009 2:42 AM in response to: Jeummah
Re: Variax 700 will not stay in tune?

go up a  few  posts  you can   check  some  soloutions.  also  if  your  going  to use  the  origonal  nut  it  should  be  lubricated tyr  tightening  the  tremelo  claw  to add  more  spring  tension.  you have  to be  sure  your springd  dont  bottom  out and  loose  tension  when  the  trem is  all  the  way  back  in its  zero  positionalso  some  people  put  the  strings  in a  v  configuration  but  from   what  i rad   that  gives  an uneven  tension..  lighter  strings  would  help.  if   tightening  the  claw  doesnt  do it   then  you may  have  to add  more  springs. also  thats  a  two point  pivot so the  pins  have  to be  equal  in  height or   it wont  work  right.

Silicon_Slinger   1 posts since
Nov 17, 2009
Currently Being Moderated
10. Nov 17, 2009 9:57 PM in response to: amx05462
Re: Variax 700 will not stay in tune?

I too am having the exact same issue -- 3rd string goes sharp with trem use.  Conversely, the 3rd string will go flat after a good bend.  I had Planet Waves locking tuners and a Graph Tech nut installed by well regarded pros -- that did not solve the issue.  I put Fender Bullets on it and that didn't help either.  I have a Tremsetter on order, but I think that too will prove to be money down the drain and here's why.  I cranked up the spring tension so the bridge sat down on the guitar body and would not budge when I bent strings.  I tested it again  --  same problem: bending the 3rd string makes it go flat and using the whammy makes it go sharp.  I'm convinced there's something wrong with the bridge  --  but what?

amx05462 Iknowathingortwo 1,542 posts since
Sep 1, 2008
Currently Being Moderated
11. Nov 18, 2009 2:22 AM in response to: Silicon_Slinger
Re: Variax 700 will not stay in tune?

check  the saddle  for  burrs  check  the  hole in the  trem  block  for burrs  and  be  sure  the  string  can  move free  and  seat  properly.  if  the  bullet  end  doesnt  just  slide  right in it  wont  seat right.

DEyre   6 posts since
Jun 3, 2007
Currently Being Moderated
12. Nov 19, 2009 3:06 AM in response to: Silicon_Slinger
Re: Variax 700 will not stay in tune?

there's a trem called step max that can be adapted to pezo's so thay say do you think this would solve the problem ?

http://stepmaxtrem.com/

KHGuitarFreak Juststartin' 9 posts since
Feb 2, 2007
Currently Being Moderated
13. Nov 21, 2009 9:14 AM in response to: bobbanana
Re: Variax 700 will not stay in tune?

If you file the nut properly, it would work out just fine, like a regular vintage trem. Don't expect it to stay in tune if you are a massive user of heavy divebombs. Nevertheless, I reckon the guitar should have been designed with a headstock angled back more. Filing the nut would allow the string to now have less contact with the bottom of the slot, resulting in the high E string jumping out of its slot if picked hard. Hope that makes sense...

amx05462 Iknowathingortwo 1,542 posts since
Sep 1, 2008
Currently Being Moderated
14. Nov 21, 2009 9:18 AM in response to: KHGuitarFreak
Re: Variax 700 will not stay in tune?

this might  help.

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