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30 Replies Last post: Jul 2, 2009 2:02 PM by lidyan   1 2 3 Previous Next
Hirokotzu   15 posts since
May 3, 2009
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Jun 11, 2009 1:25 AM

Does the valve HD100 sound get better then louder it is?

Hey. Recently I got my Spider Valve HD100 and matching cab. It is amazing. It has so much diversity but I am still lost in finding good tones! I recently got into a metal band with my friends and It will be my first time playing with a drummer with an actual tube amp (i had a 15w spider III before) and I hope to turn the volume up to keep up with the drummer. I have a few questions. I noticed while playing through my 15w spider III I get a nice sound for a song (Waking the Demon by Bullet for my valentine) but when I try to copy the sound on my valve It just doesnt sound the same (probably due to more bass and mid etc.) I'm wondering if I turn the amp louder to keep up with a drummer if I can get a better sound. I'm very happy with this amp but I hope I can get a better distortion by raising the volume (I don't want pedals yet, besides a better noise gate) Tone searching is seriously hard work, at least for me. I love BFMV and if anyone knows a good tone to get for them please share.

P.S. I'm using the amp right now at Neighborhood volume, so very very low in a garage.

Rowbi Checkoutthebigbrain... 2,561 posts since
Nov 25, 2006
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1. Jun 11, 2009 2:06 AM in response to: Hirokotzu
Re: Does the valve HD100 sound get better then louder it is?

to get teh best our of an amp that big you need to run it a little louder than very very low volume.  it's to do with getting the speaker cones moving.  and sometimes pushing a speaker hard can sound good to the ear.  to get a 4x12 moving hard, you'll probably deafen yourself in a garage, or get arrested, or both.... stacks aren't the best thing for home practice, which is why 1x12 combo's are made too.

 

now that aside, there are things you can do, but what you will find is that you may need one set of presets for low volume and another set for higher jam/gig level work.  this is the same for all amps from all manufacturers, and it's more to do with how the human ear hears different frequencies (bass middle and treble) differently at different volume levels.  se here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fletcher-Munson_curves

 

think about some home stereo's which have a loudness button, and it makes the music sound better when playing loud.  well that's to compensate for the FM curve effect.

 

to compensate on an amp, you can use an EQ pedal, and often people who gig would set their sounds up to work at gig level, and then use an EQ pedal to compensate for lower volumes, etc.

 

basically if you set your patches up for low volume, and then you want to tweak them for high volume, you'd need to increase the bass a couple of increments,  and treble by a little bit (less than the bass).

 

if you set up your patches at high level, then to tweak them for low level to the oposite.  lower bass a couple of points, and lower treble a touch.

 

right now onto basic patch editing. find out what amps BFMV use.  then look in your SV manual (or downlaod it here: http://line6.com/support/manuals/ ) and chapter 3 tells you what amp models the SV has.  choose a similar one, then turn the bass, mid, and treble to 12 o'clock, turn the reverb and effects off, then turn the channel volume to 12 o'clock.  next turn the noisegate and distortion boost on if you need them (it tells you how to in the manual in chapter 2).  then tweak the tone settings little by little until you're happy.  then add effects and verb afterwards.  also remember that the pickups on your guitar, the tone and volume setting of your guitar, and the age of your strings will all affect tone.  I find that after strings get older than 2 months they start to sound very dull, and can really make your whole tone suck, so change your strings if you haven't for a while.  you may find your tone comes back to life.

 

another good thing to learn how to do is the hidden feature that's mentioned in ch2 in the manual, and that's how to find out what settings a preset has.  this is good for mis jam session tweaking.... as remember that the knobs positions means nothing, as it's all stored in the preset... which is unlike a normal tube amp.

 

hope this helps

 

Rowbi

cgtrox Iknowathingortwo 951 posts since
Jan 25, 2007
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2. Jun 11, 2009 7:58 AM in response to: Hirokotzu
Re: Does the valve HD100 sound get better then louder it is?

Just get one of these.... http://cgi.ebay.com/VOLUME-BOX-ATTENUATOR-POWER-BRAKE-SOAK-HOT-PLATE-MASS_W0QQitemZ200347250838QQcmdZViewItemQQptZGuitar_Amp_Accessories?hash=item2ea5a07096&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12|66%3A2|39%3A1|72%3A1205|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50 ...and rock out! It works just like an attenuator, just plug it in thru your effects loop and get that chewy good tube saturation! You can crank your amp to 11 if you want and still have control of the volume, even in the garage!

 

cgtrox

Line6Miller Line6Support 5,081 posts since
Mar 28, 2006
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4. Jun 11, 2009 10:07 AM in response to: Hirokotzu
Re: Does the valve HD100 sound get better then louder it is?

You should be able to just turn the master volume up to drive the tubes a bit harder. That should be fine. Rowbi brings up some good points about the Fletcher Munson curve too. Make sure you spend some time at your rehearsal space dialing tones at a loud level. That way, you'll know what to expect when you jam with your drummer.

 

 

Line6Miller

Karl_Houseknecht Iknowathingortwo 1,032 posts since
Jan 25, 2007
Currently Being Moderated
5. Jun 11, 2009 10:16 AM in response to: cgtrox
Re: Does the valve HD100 sound get better then louder it is?

cgtrox wrote:

 

Just get one of these.... http://cgi.ebay.com/VOLUME-BOX-ATTENUATOR-POWER-BRAKE-SOAK-HOT-PLATE-MASS_W0QQitemZ200347250838QQcmdZViewItemQQptZGuitar_Amp_Accessories?hash=item2ea5a07096&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12|66%3A2|39%3A1|72%3A1205|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50 ...and rock out! It works just like an attenuator, just plug it in thru your effects loop and get that chewy good tube saturation! You can crank your amp to 11 if you want and still have control of the volume, even in the garage!

 

cgtrox

 

It couldn't possibly work like an attenuator, because it comes before the power section in the chain.

cgtrox Iknowathingortwo 951 posts since
Jan 25, 2007
Currently Being Moderated
7. Jun 11, 2009 1:26 PM in response to: Karl_Houseknecht
Re: Does the valve HD100 sound get better then louder it is?

I said "like" an attenuator, as in volume control. Which is what he was basically asking for. A real attenuator does come after the power section which allows the tubes to really cook! But they cost upwards of $200, and this little thing is only $29.00 some are even $19.00!

 

So, then if I can crank my master volume ALL THE WAY UP with this thing, the power section is not cooking? I tell you what, it sure sounds like it is! Maybe we can do some research on it cuz now I'm really interested to know if it is!

 

cgtrox

supertacks Juststartin' 169 posts since
Jul 25, 2008
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8. Jun 11, 2009 12:09 PM in response to: cgtrox
Re: Does the valve HD100 sound get better then louder it is?

Wear whatever ear protection works for you.  Personally, I haven't found any that work for me.  They make me feel dizzy on stage.  That being said, after 15 years of playing live I have suffered hearing loss.

Karl_Houseknecht Iknowathingortwo 1,032 posts since
Jan 25, 2007
Currently Being Moderated
10. Jun 11, 2009 1:31 PM in response to: Hirokotzu
Re: Does the valve HD100 sound get better then louder it is?

Hirokotzu wrote:

 

...They also have tube screamers for leads. I use Metal blue for a great heavy tone and for solo's I use the line 6 Insane Orange but still havent found deadly good sounds (probably because im not cranking the volume). One song I learned  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYGQjYi2A30

 

That song has a distortion im not able to find really...

 

Metal Amber with a Tube Screamer in front.  Lower gain than you think.  And be sure to crank up the volume.  Because if you're not tweaking in the neighborhood of gig volume, all bets are off.  You might also want to invest in a decent EQ to run in the effects loop.

jmgalante Juststartin' 13 posts since
Aug 11, 2008
Currently Being Moderated
11. Jun 12, 2009 10:02 AM in response to: cgtrox
Re: Does the valve HD100 sound get better then louder it is?

When I 1st read the description on EBay – I got the impression it won’t add anything because the effects out / amp in ‘location’ in the SV chain is before any of the tubes.  You would be controlling the volume of the low level input DSPed signal that passes on to tube V1, and isn't that the same as Channel Volume?

 

So let's say you crank this all the way up, the tone tube V1 could indeed get hit hard, but then immediately the signal would be controlled by the Master Volume, so the power section wouldn’t be impacted any more or less, I think, then if you just had cranked up Ch Volume??

I think what we would need is a Volume Control AFTER the power tubes but before the speakers!??? (I think Vox has something like this)

Hmm...

Thinking in reverse now...

so you turn DOWN the 'pre-tube' signal with this thing, and then crank up the Master Volume...seems like you would be turning up a lot of "low volume input signal" AFTER the tone tube, so now V1 is not making as much of an impact, and then trying to drive the power stage with more of 'less' (which means more noise too?) .  Hmm....I  don't see an advantage there, and still not over the Channel Volume and the guitar volume (???)

 

Interesting...

cgtrox Iknowathingortwo 951 posts since
Jan 25, 2007
Currently Being Moderated
12. Jun 12, 2009 10:04 AM in response to: jmgalante
Re: Does the valve HD100 sound get better then louder it is?

Well, I use my PODxt bean in the effects loop just for modulation and some extra EQ, and the OUTPUT knob on the PODxt acts like this little gizmo. I can turn the master volume on the amp all the way up and even the channel volumes if I want to and the PODxt STILL controls all of the volume on the amp! I know some of the more tech saavy guys here will chime in, cuz now my interest is really piqued!

 

So, my question is...

 

 

 

"If my amp is cranked all the way up, wouldn't the PODxt be acting like an attenuator or something close to it?"

cgtrox

Karl_Houseknecht Iknowathingortwo 1,032 posts since
Jan 25, 2007
Currently Being Moderated
13. Jun 12, 2009 10:04 AM in response to: jmgalante
Re: Does the valve HD100 sound get better then louder it is?

jmgalante wrote:

 

I think what we would need is a Volume Control AFTER the power tubes but before the speakers!??? (I think Vox has something like this)

 

It's called an attenuator.  You place it between the speaker output of the amp and the speaker itself.  THD makes the Hot Plate, Marshall has the Power Brake, etc.

 

The device on eBay is just a simple volume control that you can place in the effects loop of a normal non-master volume, all-tube amp in order to drive the front of the amp really hard without blowing your eardrums out.  It results in higher preamp distortion, but has no effect on power tube saturation.

Karl_Houseknecht Iknowathingortwo 1,032 posts since
Jan 25, 2007
Currently Being Moderated
14. Jun 12, 2009 10:05 AM in response to: cgtrox
Re: Does the valve HD100 sound get better then louder it is?

cgtrox wrote:

 

 

"If my amp is cranked all the way up, wouldn't the PODxt be acting like an attenuator or something close to it?"

cgtrox

 

Nope.  It'll just act like a second master volume control, before the SV's master volume control.  So it'll have no effect on power tube saturation.

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