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#1515 Frequency Response Graphs For Hd500 Eqs

Posted by pfsmith0 on 08 May 2013 - 11:26 AM

In the process of trying to figure out what a 4 Band Shift EQ is, I put my HD500 on the test bench and measured the frequency response of ALL the EQs in the HD500. I thought you'd find it useful so I'm sharing the results here. For example, what does a 100% shift mean? What does 0% Q mean? And just where is Freq = 38% in the Parametric EQ? Did you know when you set 2.2kHz of the Graphic EQ to -12dB you'll get a +12dB boost (!) at 1kHz before it dips down at 2.2kHz? No wonder it didn't work very well to eliminate a pesky feedback problem, but caused another one instead. Using these can give you insight into which EQ you really want to use.

 

I've attached the most pertinent pictures here (zipped together to make it easy). The only potential problem is the 4 Band Shift Hi Freq which has mismatched L/R channels (~3dB at 1kHz)! Every other EQ and every other setting has perfect L/R balance (less than .1dB mismatch) but this one does not. I've contacted Line 6 support before submitting this here but they see nothing out of the ordinary (i.e., it sounds fine, which may be true, but there's still a mismatch, big enough to be called a bug in my opinion). I've labeled those two graphs channel 1 & 2 because that's what my test equipment calls them. Unfortunately I didn't have the forsight to find out which was left and which was right before I tore down the setup. But the fact of a mismatch remains.

 

Some things you need to know to properly interpret these:

  1. An Audio Precision APx525 was used to generate the sound source and measure frequency response.
  2. Output = S/PDIF
  3. Input 1 = Mic. Input 2 = same. Mic level on back adjusted to give -20dBFS output with the Graphic EQ
  4. Unless otherwise indicated, the gain of all the other EQs were set to nominally give -20dBFS. The gains were recorded so you can see which EQs have built-in gain or loss compared to the Graphic EQ.
  5. There were no other FX or amps in the signal chain.
  6. Sample rate = 44.1kHz (factory default)

I have more complete files that contain the actual data (not just pictures) as well as more settings than shown in these few pictures attached here. Until I can find a better place to put it, you can download the entire 160M set of Excel files from: https://dl.dropboxus...easurements.zip. I am open to ideas of where to put this on a more permanent basis.

 

Enjoy! I hope you find these as useful as I have.

----------------------------

I took the HD500 back into the lab and verified that it's the Left Channel that has the odd frequency response in the Hi Freq portion of the 4 Band Shift EQ. I re-uploaded the Excel files to indicate this and re-uploaded the new 4 Band Shift EQ figures here.

----------------------------

I measured the frequency response of the Q Filter (per meambobbo's post) and attached it here. I also updated the giant zip of Excel files. I think this could emulate a pretty Morley wah if you make toe = hi Freq/hi Q/hi Gain and heel = low Freq/low Q/ low Gain. Also, mix attempts to add the filtered signal to the straight signal, which it does. But the filtered signal has some processing delay so the mix includes some notches in the 4k-8kHz region you may not be expecting. You can see this in the attached graphs. For the signal levels I was using (-20dBFS thru the Graphic Equalizer) you can also see some gain compression with the Q filter. So if you want it clean, stick to the lower Gain levels.

-----------------------------

Added a PDF file that lists the frequencies (in Hz) represented by the Parametric Frequency )in %).

Attached Files


  • 13


#12299 Pod Hd 500 - 500x *new* Routing Schematics

Posted by perapera on 16 August 2013 - 05:38 AM

I posted this in the old forum months ago,

since many peole found it useful I thought I could re-post it here:

___

 

I really think these are important things not stated (or in some cases not clearly stated) in the manual, that you need to know to start seriously programming your POD HD
 

I ran some serious tests on my Pod HD 500 and here is what I found out (I made my tests on a POD HD500 but this is valid for HD500X and HD Pro and is very similar for the "bean" version too),

I'll try to be as synthetic (but complete and clear) as possible, but this is going to be a long reading so sit down and take your time or just go surfing somewhere else

 

§§§
 

In short: the "famous" [input-1: guitar / input-2: variax] setting gives you different levels of signal depending on the position of the first *mono* effect block you use (amplifiers included), in particular you LOSE 6dB in the "pre" path in comparison to the path A/B or post path

(note that this is not the same as saying that you gain 6dB with input-2 to "same", read on).

 

[ if you don't know what I'm talking about just go and read this thread:

http://line6.com/sup...tart=0&tstart=0

then come back here to hear a different opinion on the matter]

 

first of all, try it out:

- connect a guitar to the guitar input and the Left output to a full-range linear amp (or use your headphones)

- recall a "new tone" default blank patch

- set input-1 to Guitar and input-2 to Variax

- set mixer channel A fader to unity (0.0dB) and pan to center

- set mixer channel B fader to mute

- setup a noise gate* with the threshold set to 0% in "pre" position

(with this setting this IS a unity gain mono fx block)

- play thru it

- now if you bypass it, you'll hear that it looses 6dB of level when it's active (I initially thought this was noise gate's fault, but it's NOT)

- now re-activate the noise gate and move it in A or "post" path

- now if you try to bypass it you'll hear that it does NOT loose any dB

- try moving the block back and forth between pre and A or post paths and you'll hear more level in path A or post than in pre

 

this was already found out at least by hurghanico here: http://line6.com/sup...e/403287#403287

but it's so important that needs a dedicated and more detailed thread.

 

[* you can repeat the experiment with other mono effects instead of a noise gate but keep in mind that, if you want to clearly hear a level difference, you need a mono unity gain (www.music-dictionary.org/unity_gain) effect, for example:

- a tube comp with thresh 100% & level 2% settings will work just as the noise gate above

- an fx loop block with a mono cable connected between send and return will work just the same (but also read point 2 below)

- do it with an amp with medium-low gain and, moving it between pre and A or post paths, you'll hear a significant difference in gain/ovedrive/distortion, not only level difference]

 

§§§
 

OK now that you heard it, let's see it in detail;

 

these are the REAL schemes of the pod and fx blocks routing, yes it's done by hand and I love it ;-)

 

pod_routing_%26_fx_blocks_graphs.png

 

As you can see the pre path is a "dual-path"

while A, B and post are all stereo paths;

at the splitting point, where the path A and B are born,

the signal coming from input-1 is splittted to the Left and Right channels of the path A

and the signal coming from input-2 is splittted to the Left and Right channels of the path B;

 

furthermore all fx blocks have TWO inputs and two outputs and the mono blocks do attenuate by 6dB and sum their inputs, then process the result and then split their mono output to both outputs of the block;

 

for those who don't know, notice that:

- "splitting" means duplicating one mono signal to two "routes"

- and summing those two identical signals means doubling the level of the original signal (which equals to 6dB more)

 

[and some side-notes:

- the "stereo dry & mono wet" effects are for example the pitch effects and the "dry" type delays, I'm not considering this type of effects in this post, but they work as expected from the scheme you see above;

- you can find a list of all the fx blocks divided by type here:

http://line6.com/sup...e/380853#380853

where "stereo dry & mono wet" blocks are called "Stereo Thru/Mono Effect" which I personally find less clear

- the mixer control named as "pan" is actually a "balance" control because if you move it to one side (e.g.: left) it acts on the stereo or dual mono signal by doing NOTHING on that side (left) and ATTENUATING the opposite side (right)]

 

§§§
 

So, summarizing, if you only activate input-1, in the pre path, the first mono effect is attenuating the input 1 and 2 and summing them, but, since input-2 is actually silence, you loose 6dB;

in A, B and post paths the effects are receiving a doubled signal on L/R, so the mono blocks, attenuating and summing the two signals, receive the right signal level to process

 

so using "same" or "guitar" for input-2 does not mean to gain anything, but having a constant doubled signal wich is compensated by a 6dB attenuation in each mono summing it encounters in his flow

please note that I am NOT saying that using only input-1 is wrong, you just need to know that this can give you different gain results depending on the position of the first mono effect

 

with only input-1 active (Guitar/Variax) and the same parameter values, this:

rout-1.png

 

is giving you more distortion than that:

rout-2.png

 

now, if you use those two setups with "Input-1: Guitar / Input-2: Same", you get EXACTLY the same sound with both

 

and this is something that can not be ignored

...don't know how to be more clear than that


  • 10


#46698 Dr Jekyll And Mr Hyde (jcm 800)..

Posted by hurghanico on 07 April 2014 - 05:47 AM

This tone did not sound good. Guitarist sounded skilled, but the tone, not good. Need to get a better tone if you want to succeed anywhere outside this forum. If your goal in music is to get applause on this forum, you have made it to the top; but it only sounds good to people who have invested their self-esteem into believing the HD can do justice to the Slayer tone. If you didn't play so well, I wouldn't bother to tell you this helpful advice.

 

I play mainly for the great passion I have for music and the guitar in particular, passion that has also become a job several years ago ..

although I am always pleased to receive compliments, I am not in need to receive particular acknowledgments in this forum, which fortunately I already have in real life regarding my work ..


as much as I can in my spare time I post my patches and demos here because I want to share them with other members of the forum, I think all of us together can learn to make better use of our equipment, and then I try to give my little contribution ..

 

I am always open to any constructive criticism, and in this case if you think that this sound does not do justice to the original, I accept your opinion, and I would also like to hear and know how you can do better ..

to finish and to be entirely honest, I've never been a metalhead or a perfectionist of that genre, and for me the sound that I've found it works all too well, keep in mind also that in my demo I recorded only 1 guitar part, not 2 as in the original, and therefore the sound is a little less full .. but probably with some tweakings there is space for further improvements to the tone.. why not?.. I don't know..

anyway if you or someone else will do better and want to share their findings they will be welcome..

 

but please no negativity in this my thread

generally to those who believe that the HD can not absolutely give the sounds they want, I want to say:

- That's perfectly Ok, but do not lose anymore time here trying at any cost to convince anyone of your opinion, and particularly do not waste the time of other people


  • 8


#8179 Let's Put Together A List Of Obvious Things That Line6 Could Have Fixed W...

Posted by EnzoHeavenly on 11 July 2013 - 07:02 PM

I would have been nice to have different colors for the footswitches (based on the type of FX used), for example... in A-B-C-D, it'd be nice to see these colors:

OD/Dist = Yellow
Delay = Green
Reverbs = Orange

Modulation = Blue

Filters = Purple

And for the presets, red.

(this would be also useful if you don't use presets but just individual pedals)


  • 6


#46655 Dr Jekyll And Mr Hyde (jcm 800)..

Posted by Metalchef on 06 April 2014 - 09:35 PM

Ok with some knowledge and tweaking Bach boy produced a douche sound...... And without an amp.
  • 6


#30057 How Do You Use Your Expression Pedal Besides Volume And Wah?

Posted by Metalchef on 23 December 2013 - 09:33 PM

I plan to use one to control the wife's volume level in the toe position and her nagging level at the heel and a second to turn the lights off and on in my house.
  • 6


#26188 Help! Hd 500 Is Too Complicated!

Posted by mcolquitt on 20 November 2013 - 06:46 AM

Call me goofy but it seems to me that when I have ever needed help with anything, not just electronics but anything, and I asked for help from someone or a group of someones, I never considered that it would benefit me to ask the questions I had in a whiney, complaining, insulting and childish fashion. I would simply state my situation and ask for some help or more likely, answers to specific questions. In other words, I never tried to seek help the way you have here, how does that work out for you?

 

The people here are amazingly kind and generous with their time. Now I see them in an even better light because I see that they will be just as helpful to those that clearly don't deserve it. Like you, here. Nomsayin?


  • 6


#25664 Help! Hd 500 Is Too Complicated!

Posted by ext1jdh on 17 November 2013 - 03:11 AM

If you're this frustrated by technology then sell it and get an amp. You'll be stuck with a single tone, but it sounds like that's all you're capable of anyway.

The HD500 is not a POS because you can't figure it out. Thousands of others have no problem understanding it.
  • 6


#46182 Does The Jcm 800 Sound Broken To You?

Posted by radatats on 03 April 2014 - 02:31 PM

it sounds great, as I knew it would.  The real question is who really gives a flying lollipop if it sounds exactly like any particular amp?  The only question is does it sound good or not?  Can you get the tone you want or at least close enough to be happy?  There are so many things one can do with this gear and do them well I just don't get the hangups...  If you absolutely have to have an 800 exactly, go buy one...  Or maybe spend some time with this gear experimenting, mixing and matching cabs and mics and find the tone you really want... because you can get any tone you want.  to dump this simply because you don't think the 800 is a perfect match is ridiculous...


  • 5


#44926 Landed On Customtone!

Posted by hurghanico on 25 March 2014 - 06:53 PM

for those maybe interested, here is a list of many of the patches I posted here ;)

for each song there is th
e link to the demo audio, and just below it you'll find also the link to download the patch..

 

3 things:

- prior to load any of the following patches make sure your system input settings are set per "preset" and not "global"..

 

- I did this patches to work with a Variax, and so if you are not using a Variax you should swap the input settings of these patches to be input1=guitar, input2=variax, otherwise they will not work as intended by me

 

- usually I have the POD footswitches set in "FS 4-8 mode" to have all 8 of them avaible and visible, in my patches I didn't arrange the FXs footswitches to follow any particular logic order, they simply follow the order of the FXs in the chain..

therefore re-assign them the way you like

 

happy tour..

 

and feel free to add any comment

 

------------------

 

Hey Joe - Jimi Hendrix

(Stratocaster neck pickup - Marshall Plexi)

 

https://soundcloud.c...ghanico/hey-joe

 

http://line6.com/cus...ne/tone/277907/

 

------------------

 

Owner Of A Lonely Heart - Yes

(Stratocaster bridge pickup - Hiwatt DR-103)

 

https://soundcloud.c...-a-lonely-heart

 

http://line6.com/cus...ne/tone/278325/

 

------------------

 

Touch - Noiseworks

(Les Paul bridge pickup - Vox AC-30)

 

https://www.dropbox....dmha7/Touch.mp3

 

http://line6.com/cus...ne/tone/278297/

 

-------------------

 

My Sharona - The Knack

(Les Paul bridge pickup - Vox AC-30)

 

https://soundcloud.c...nico/my-sharona

 

http://line6.com/cus...ne/tone/278375/

 

-------------------

 

In My Time of Dying - Led Zeppelin

(Danelectro - Marshall Plexi)

 

https://soundcloud.c...y-time-of-dying

 

http://line6.com/cus...ne/tone/278378/

 

-------------------

 

Jailbreak - AC/DC

(Gretsch Silver Jet bridge pickup - Marshall Plexi)

 

https://soundcloud.c...o/jailbreak-bis

 

http://line6.com/cus...ne/tone/278382/

 

-------------------

 

Whole Lotta Love - Led Zeppelin

(Telecaster bridge pickup - Supro S6616)

 

https://soundcloud.c...hole-lotta-love

 

http://line6.com/cus...ne/tone/278386/

 

-------------------

 

Sunday Bloody Sunday - U2

(Stratocaster bridge pickup - Vox AC-30)

 

https://soundcloud.c...y-bloody-sunday

 

http://line6.com/cus...ne/tone/278387/

 

-------------------

 

Are You Gonna Go My Way - Lenny Kravitz

(Les Paul bridge pickup - Park 75)

 

https://soundcloud.c...gonna-go-my-way

 

http://line6.com/cus...ne/tone/278389/

 

-------------------

 

All The Things You Are - Pat Metheny

(Gibson ES-175 neck pickup - Ampeg B-15NF)

 

https://soundcloud.c...-things-you-are

 

http://line6.com/cus...ne/tone/278393/

 

--------------------

 

Another Brick In The Wall II - Pink Floyd

(Les Paul Special P-90 neck pickup - Hiwatt DR-103)

 

https://soundcloud.c...-in-the-wall-ii

 

http://line6.com/cus...ne/tone/278394/

 

--------------------

 

Sultans Of Swing - Dire Straits

(Stratocaster bridge/middle pickups combi - Fender Deluxe Reverb)

 

https://soundcloud.c...ultans-of-swing

 

http://line6.com/cus...ne/tone/278404/

 

--------------------

 

Smoke On The Water - Deep Purple

(Stratocaster bridge pickup for rhythm, neck pickup for the solo - Marshall Plexi)

 

https://soundcloud.c...ke-on-the-water

 

http://line6.com/cus...ne/tone/278411/

 

--------------------

 

Europa - Santana

(Firebird V neck pickup - Dual Rectifier)

 

https://soundcloud.c...nico/europa-bis

 

http://line6.com/cus...ne/tone/278418/

 

--------------------

 

Something - Beatles - Gerge Harrison (updated)

(Epiphone Casino - bridge PU for solo end riffs - Telecaster neck PU for rhythm)

 

https://soundcloud.c...anico/something old demo

 

http://line6.com/cus...ne/tone/280888/ <--------old patch

 

--------

 

https://soundcloud.c...o/something-bis  new audio demo

 

http://line6.com/cus...ne/tone/281737/ <--------new patch

 

--------------------

 

Raining Blood - Slayer

(Les Paul bridge PU - JCM 800)

 

https://soundcloud.c...raining-blood-1

 

http://line6.com/cus...ne/tone/283407/

 

--------------------

 

All The Things You Are - Barney Kessel

(Gibson ES-175 neck PU - Gibson EH-185)

 

https://soundcloud.c...e-barney-things

 

http://line6.com/cus...ne/tone/285803/

 

--------------------

 

and here??...well.. we'll see ;)


  • 5


#42690 Amplifi Fx100 As Replacement For Hd300/400

Posted by hurghanico on 12 March 2014 - 10:02 AM

everyone is free to see it as they see fit ..
for me Line6 is moving backward, to satisfy more and more
amateur buyers, and definitely not the professionals (which sometimes I suspect will be abandoned both as target buyers and supported customers)..

probably the amateurs market offers more profit..

it is clear that Amplifi absolutely can not replace the HD technology at all..
how can someone who has used XT/X3 devices and switched to HD line, ever want to go back in the modeling quality level? ..
would make no sense


  • 5


#40130 A Video Of Me Jamming With My Jtv-69 And My New Amplifi 75!

Posted by ChristianArnold on 23 February 2014 - 04:54 AM

Hey guys, I finally got my AMPLIFI 75 watt yesterday. Check out this video of me jamming along with my JTV-69. I made a patch so all the acoustic and reso guitars sound good. Watch here:


  • 5


#40039 Come Back To Us, Prodigal Company. An Open Letter.

Posted by scheater5 on 21 February 2014 - 10:09 PM

I'm about to make a post that people hate.  People hate it because, "if you hate the company so much, why are you posting on their forums!!!??!!  Just go away!"  But I don't hate Line 6.  

 

It's what Line 6 has been doing lately that I don't see eye to eye with.   

 

Dear, Line 6.  I'm a professional musician.  I have QSC speakers and a Presonus board.  I don't care how "neat-o" your new speakers or mixer are.  

 

If I wanted an amp, I'd buy the one that made the sound I wanted.  And if I wanted one of your amps, I'd buy the one designed by Bogner.  A professional musician doesn't want an amp with an iPad.  

 

Maybe you're having great success.  Maybe the 16-year-old-with-parent's-money market is lucrative right now.  Bless you for it.  But don't let us fall by the wayside.  Us, the gigging musician who has carried your company through good times and down economies.  Us, who will come back, time and time again, to a company that does us right.  We're not "loyal," we just want to trust our gear on stage night after night.  

 

But Line 6, you haven't been trustworthy lately.  I want - I desperately want - to stay in this ecosystem, because with a few tweaks, a Variax and a PodHD truly could be a dream rig.  But I'm eyeing greener pastures a lot lately. 

 

Update the firmware to the Pod.  If nothing else, fix the dumb math mistakes that forum users have pointed out over and over.  

 

The trade shows and people who want "new shiny" have enough to chew on for a while.  Throw the gigging man a bone.  We want to come back home, Line 6. 


  • 5


#31371 Line 6 Should Offer Low Cost/free Upgrade From Hd To Hd-x

Posted by joel_brown on 03 January 2014 - 07:22 AM

DeAllen bought two of them.  I guess he deserves to be twice as mad.  

 

Show us something better for under $700 bucks.  As I posted before, even the AXE FXII has DSP limit issues.  The new DSP in the X series, at best, might get you one more effect, if you're lucky.  So it doesn't fix what you're asking to have fixed.


  • 5


#30172 Merry Christmas Pod People

Posted by Metalchef on 25 December 2013 - 07:10 AM

Hey guys I hope everyone here has a blessed and Merry Christmas. May the Jolly Fat Man bring you all the gear on can handle..... Also thank you to everyone who has ever answered a poor helpless souls questions with the patience of a saint.... Out of the many guitar forums I've been on through the years this has been on of the best because of the majority attitude and help it has offered it's Noobs..... And not just with line 6 questions..... So thank you everyone and have a Wonderful Day.

Almost forgot to pay Homage to meambobbo The Keeper of the High Gain Tone Guide.... Thanks for all the work u put into it.... Again.
  • 5


#46500 Dr Jekyll And Mr Hyde (jcm 800)..

Posted by hurghanico on 05 April 2014 - 02:58 PM

for now mr Hyde is here:

https://soundcloud.c...raining-blood-1

(settings under the soundcloud track)

 

the other JCM 800 identity is coming at some point.. ?!?

 

(my Variax 700 plugged to the HD500)

 

Customtone patch here:

http://line6.com/cus...ne/tone/283407/

 

-------------

 

EDIT!

Dr Jekyll also arrived here with 2 suitcases :

 

https://soundcloud.c...nico/scherzetto

 

https://soundcloud.c...o/kessel-friend

 

in these last 2 examples the JCM 800 is almost clean..

 

well, as clean as clean can be the voice of Joe Cocker ;)


  • 5