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#1515 Frequency Response Graphs For Hd500 Eqs

Posted by pfsmith0 on 08 May 2013 - 11:26 AM

In the process of trying to figure out what a 4 Band Shift EQ is, I put my HD500 on the test bench and measured the frequency response of ALL the EQs in the HD500. I thought you'd find it useful so I'm sharing the results here. For example, what does a 100% shift mean? What does 0% Q mean? And just where is Freq = 38% in the Parametric EQ? Did you know when you set 2.2kHz of the Graphic EQ to -12dB you'll get a +12dB boost (!) at 1kHz before it dips down at 2.2kHz? No wonder it didn't work very well to eliminate a pesky feedback problem, but caused another one instead. Using these can give you insight into which EQ you really want to use.

 

I've attached the most pertinent pictures here (zipped together to make it easy). The only potential problem is the 4 Band Shift Hi Freq which has mismatched L/R channels (~3dB at 1kHz)! Every other EQ and every other setting has perfect L/R balance (less than .1dB mismatch) but this one does not. I've contacted Line 6 support before submitting this here but they see nothing out of the ordinary (i.e., it sounds fine, which may be true, but there's still a mismatch, big enough to be called a bug in my opinion). I've labeled those two graphs channel 1 & 2 because that's what my test equipment calls them. Unfortunately I didn't have the forsight to find out which was left and which was right before I tore down the setup. But the fact of a mismatch remains.

 

Some things you need to know to properly interpret these:

  1. An Audio Precision APx525 was used to generate the sound source and measure frequency response.
  2. Output = S/PDIF
  3. Input 1 = Mic. Input 2 = same. Mic level on back adjusted to give -20dBFS output with the Graphic EQ
  4. Unless otherwise indicated, the gain of all the other EQs were set to nominally give -20dBFS. The gains were recorded so you can see which EQs have built-in gain or loss compared to the Graphic EQ.
  5. There were no other FX or amps in the signal chain.
  6. Sample rate = 44.1kHz (factory default)

I have more complete files that contain the actual data (not just pictures) as well as more settings than shown in these few pictures attached here. Until I can find a better place to put it, you can download the entire 160M set of Excel files from: https://dl.dropboxus...easurements.zip. I am open to ideas of where to put this on a more permanent basis.

 

Enjoy! I hope you find these as useful as I have.

----------------------------

I took the HD500 back into the lab and verified that it's the Left Channel that has the odd frequency response in the Hi Freq portion of the 4 Band Shift EQ. I re-uploaded the Excel files to indicate this and re-uploaded the new 4 Band Shift EQ figures here.

----------------------------

I measured the frequency response of the Q Filter (per meambobbo's post) and attached it here. I also updated the giant zip of Excel files. I think this could emulate a pretty Morley wah if you make toe = hi Freq/hi Q/hi Gain and heel = low Freq/low Q/ low Gain. Also, mix attempts to add the filtered signal to the straight signal, which it does. But the filtered signal has some processing delay so the mix includes some notches in the 4k-8kHz region you may not be expecting. You can see this in the attached graphs. For the signal levels I was using (-20dBFS thru the Graphic Equalizer) you can also see some gain compression with the Q filter. So if you want it clean, stick to the lower Gain levels.

-----------------------------

Added a PDF file that lists the frequencies (in Hz) represented by the Parametric Frequency )in %).

Attached Files


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#12299 Pod Hd 500 - 500x *new* Routing Schematics

Posted by perapera on 16 August 2013 - 05:38 AM

I posted this in the old forum months ago,

since many peole found it useful I thought I could re-post it here:

___

 

I really think these are important things not stated (or in some cases not clearly stated) in the manual, that you need to know to start seriously programming your POD HD
 

I ran some serious tests on my Pod HD 500 and here is what I found out (I made my tests on a POD HD500 but this is valid for HD500X and HD Pro and is very similar for the "bean" version too),

I'll try to be as synthetic (but complete and clear) as possible, but this is going to be a long reading so sit down and take your time or just go surfing somewhere else

 

§§§
 

In short: the "famous" [input-1: guitar / input-2: variax] setting gives you different levels of signal depending on the position of the first *mono* effect block you use (amplifiers included), in particular you LOSE 6dB in the "pre" path in comparison to the path A/B or post path

(note that this is not the same as saying that you gain 6dB with input-2 to "same", read on).

 

[ if you don't know what I'm talking about just go and read this thread:

http://line6.com/sup...tart=0&tstart=0

then come back here to hear a different opinion on the matter]

 

first of all, try it out:

- connect a guitar to the guitar input and the Left output to a full-range linear amp (or use your headphones)

- recall a "new tone" default blank patch

- set input-1 to Guitar and input-2 to Variax

- set mixer channel A fader to unity (0.0dB) and pan to center

- set mixer channel B fader to mute

- setup a noise gate* with the threshold set to 0% in "pre" position

(with this setting this IS a unity gain mono fx block)

- play thru it

- now if you bypass it, you'll hear that it looses 6dB of level when it's active (I initially thought this was noise gate's fault, but it's NOT)

- now re-activate the noise gate and move it in A or "post" path

- now if you try to bypass it you'll hear that it does NOT loose any dB

- try moving the block back and forth between pre and A or post paths and you'll hear more level in path A or post than in pre

 

this was already found out at least by hurghanico here: http://line6.com/sup...e/403287#403287

but it's so important that needs a dedicated and more detailed thread.

 

[* you can repeat the experiment with other mono effects instead of a noise gate but keep in mind that, if you want to clearly hear a level difference, you need a mono unity gain (www.music-dictionary.org/unity_gain) effect, for example:

- a tube comp with thresh 100% & level 2% settings will work just as the noise gate above

- an fx loop block with a mono cable connected between send and return will work just the same (but also read point 2 below)

- do it with an amp with medium-low gain and, moving it between pre and A or post paths, you'll hear a significant difference in gain/ovedrive/distortion, not only level difference]

 

§§§
 

OK now that you heard it, let's see it in detail;

 

these are the REAL schemes of the pod and fx blocks routing, yes it's done by hand and I love it ;-)

 

pod_routing_%26_fx_blocks_graphs.png

 

As you can see the pre path is a "dual-path"

while A, B and post are all stereo paths;

at the splitting point, where the path A and B are born,

the signal coming from input-1 is splittted to the Left and Right channels of the path A

and the signal coming from input-2 is splittted to the Left and Right channels of the path B;

 

furthermore all fx blocks have TWO inputs and two outputs and the mono blocks do attenuate by 6dB and sum their inputs, then process the result and then split their mono output to both outputs of the block;

 

for those who don't know, notice that:

- "splitting" means duplicating one mono signal to two "routes"

- and summing those two identical signals means doubling the level of the original signal (which equals to 6dB more)

 

[and some side-notes:

- the "stereo dry & mono wet" effects are for example the pitch effects and the "dry" type delays, I'm not considering this type of effects in this post, but they work as expected from the scheme you see above;

- you can find a list of all the fx blocks divided by type here:

http://line6.com/sup...e/380853#380853

where "stereo dry & mono wet" blocks are called "Stereo Thru/Mono Effect" which I personally find less clear

- the mixer control named as "pan" is actually a "balance" control because if you move it to one side (e.g.: left) it acts on the stereo or dual mono signal by doing NOTHING on that side (left) and ATTENUATING the opposite side (right)]

 

§§§
 

So, summarizing, if you only activate input-1, in the pre path, the first mono effect is attenuating the input 1 and 2 and summing them, but, since input-2 is actually silence, you loose 6dB;

in A, B and post paths the effects are receiving a doubled signal on L/R, so the mono blocks, attenuating and summing the two signals, receive the right signal level to process

 

so using "same" or "guitar" for input-2 does not mean to gain anything, but having a constant doubled signal wich is compensated by a 6dB attenuation in each mono summing it encounters in his flow

please note that I am NOT saying that using only input-1 is wrong, you just need to know that this can give you different gain results depending on the position of the first mono effect

 

with only input-1 active (Guitar/Variax) and the same parameter values, this:

rout-1.png

 

is giving you more distortion than that:

rout-2.png

 

now, if you use those two setups with "Input-1: Guitar / Input-2: Same", you get EXACTLY the same sound with both

 

and this is something that can not be ignored

...don't know how to be more clear than that


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#12703 V2 Hd Comparison Video

Posted by andiw on 18 August 2013 - 08:42 AM

Hey,

 

I compared the new Variax software with the old (V1.9) and made a video:

 

 

This is a great software update! All models sound way better to me.


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#13559 Pod Hd Tone Conversion Utility

Posted by TheRealZap on 22 August 2013 - 04:17 AM

This user created utility will help you get tones from the different pod HD's to work on your particular pod HD model.

 

http://www.jzab.de/content/pod-hd

 

*requires java to be installed.

 

Credit to the author.

Not officially endorsed or supported by Line6.


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#8179 Let's Put Together A List Of Obvious Things That Line6 Could Have Fixed W...

Posted by EnzoHeavenly on 11 July 2013 - 07:02 PM

I would have been nice to have different colors for the footswitches (based on the type of FX used), for example... in A-B-C-D, it'd be nice to see these colors:

OD/Dist = Yellow
Delay = Green
Reverbs = Orange

Modulation = Blue

Filters = Purple

And for the presets, red.

(this would be also useful if you don't use presets but just individual pedals)


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#40039 Come Back To Us, Prodigal Company. An Open Letter.

Posted by scheater5 on 21 February 2014 - 10:09 PM

I'm about to make a post that people hate.  People hate it because, "if you hate the company so much, why are you posting on their forums!!!??!!  Just go away!"  But I don't hate Line 6.  

 

It's what Line 6 has been doing lately that I don't see eye to eye with.   

 

Dear, Line 6.  I'm a professional musician.  I have QSC speakers and a Presonus board.  I don't care how "neat-o" your new speakers or mixer are.  

 

If I wanted an amp, I'd buy the one that made the sound I wanted.  And if I wanted one of your amps, I'd buy the one designed by Bogner.  A professional musician doesn't want an amp with an iPad.  

 

Maybe you're having great success.  Maybe the 16-year-old-with-parent's-money market is lucrative right now.  Bless you for it.  But don't let us fall by the wayside.  Us, the gigging musician who has carried your company through good times and down economies.  Us, who will come back, time and time again, to a company that does us right.  We're not "loyal," we just want to trust our gear on stage night after night.  

 

But Line 6, you haven't been trustworthy lately.  I want - I desperately want - to stay in this ecosystem, because with a few tweaks, a Variax and a PodHD truly could be a dream rig.  But I'm eyeing greener pastures a lot lately. 

 

Update the firmware to the Pod.  If nothing else, fix the dumb math mistakes that forum users have pointed out over and over.  

 

The trade shows and people who want "new shiny" have enough to chew on for a while.  Throw the gigging man a bone.  We want to come back home, Line 6. 


  • 6


#26188 Help! Hd 500 Is Too Complicated!

Posted by mcolquitt on 20 November 2013 - 06:46 AM

Call me goofy but it seems to me that when I have ever needed help with anything, not just electronics but anything, and I asked for help from someone or a group of someones, I never considered that it would benefit me to ask the questions I had in a whiney, complaining, insulting and childish fashion. I would simply state my situation and ask for some help or more likely, answers to specific questions. In other words, I never tried to seek help the way you have here, how does that work out for you?

 

The people here are amazingly kind and generous with their time. Now I see them in an even better light because I see that they will be just as helpful to those that clearly don't deserve it. Like you, here. Nomsayin?


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#26110 New Hd Firmware

Posted by radatats on 19 November 2013 - 06:14 PM

well I applied the update with no issues on my 500.  So now the master volume knob on the 500 works with my DT.  Only it doesn't match the master on the DT, it only regulates the POD output level.  Prior to the update the POD output stayed at 100% and the only way to lower volume was with the amp channel volume or the DT Master.  Now we can crank the DT master for the power section tubes without blowing the windows out by just lowering the POD master instead of playing with the amp channel.

 

I tried it tonight and it seems to be the case.  It is going to take a lot more play time to work with but essentially I should never have to use LVM again.

 

And as for anything else, I don't give a crap.  I see tons of very high priced analog pedals that only do one or two things and will NEVER be updated, changed, factory reset, and nobody bitches about it.  When you buy a new computer you don't expect the manufacturer to give you new features and capabilities for free.  Microsoft doesn't give you a new OS for free (usually).  My car company doesn't call me up with free upgrades for the hell of it.  Even if Line 6 did give new amps and stuff, there would still be complainers that it wasn't enough or just what they wanted.

 

As for me, thanks guys, good job.   :D


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#25664 Help! Hd 500 Is Too Complicated!

Posted by ext1jdh on 17 November 2013 - 03:11 AM

If you're this frustrated by technology then sell it and get an amp. You'll be stuck with a single tone, but it sounds like that's all you're capable of anyway.

The HD500 is not a POS because you can't figure it out. Thousands of others have no problem understanding it.
  • 6


#50551 Are The Original Hd500 Preset Setlists Around Anywhere?

Posted by duncann on 30 April 2014 - 03:30 PM

I happen to have them.

 

Attached Files


  • 5


#50110 A Chart For Noobs Or Frustrated Dream Riggers

Posted by oehman on 28 April 2014 - 12:06 PM

When I wanted to try out the different amp models in the HD500 thru my DT25, it drove me crazy with the volume differences.

So I went through each model and tried to find a nice drive level and adjusted the channel volume so that each amp model was reasonably close in volume.

 

I created a chart of the different models and settings that got me close.  Also, I keep the mixer block at 0 db and panned 33% L&R. I use the Input 1= Variax Input 2=Same when I run into my DT25.

 

Attached is my chart. I would upload the setlist, but I'm not sure if that can be done here or has to go through Custom Tone. I also made a section at the bottom for the different overdrives. Just like the amps, if you add drive, you need to bring the volume down to maintain the same volume level.

 

 

I wish these were the default settings for the amps! Why so many amps and amp pre's default to 100% channel volume is a mystery that will never be unraveled. And it has scared the crap out of me too many times...

 

So here it is. Criticism is welcome!

 

 

 

 

 

Attached Files


  • 5


#42690 Amplifi Fx100 As Replacement For Hd300/400

Posted by hurghanico on 12 March 2014 - 10:02 AM

everyone is free to see it as they see fit ..
for me Line6 is moving backward, to satisfy more and more
amateur buyers, and definitely not the professionals (which sometimes I suspect will be abandoned both as target buyers and supported customers)..

probably the amateurs market offers more profit..

it is clear that Amplifi absolutely can not replace the HD technology at all..
how can someone who has used XT/X3 devices and switched to HD line, ever want to go back in the modeling quality level? ..
would make no sense


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#42453 Come Back To Us, Prodigal Company. An Open Letter.

Posted by Tboneous on 10 March 2014 - 06:33 PM

The government took it down :o :o :o :o :o

The gubment took it down for a reason. I didn't see why the gubment took it down but I bet I can make a good guess. A bunch of disgruntled line 6'ers started hurling insults at those who dared to express an opinion contrary to the prevalent talking point. I've seen it all to often on this forum and have personally razor bladed that line myself. You can participate on this forum and write off people as being a shill of Line 6 if you want to, but it doesn't help those who are looking for valid, timely info that will help them make a sound purchasing decision.

 

Is it asking too much to say that hurling insults and nastiness at one another is not the way we as fellow Line 6'ers/musicians/guitarists should interact?

 

FYI- Participate here long enough, and you too can be labeled an expert guru! They don't have super powers. They are musicians/guitarist/humans with a perspective. Take it or leave it!  If I hurled an insult at everyone who didn't share a similar perspective as mine then I would live in a constant state of blah!!!

 

...and as I am fond of saying..."Ain't nobody got time for that!

 

Let's stay positive! Let's stay in MUSIC!... You too Line 6!


  • 5


#40130 A Video Of Me Jamming With My Jtv-69 And My New Amplifi 75!

Posted by ChristianArnold on 23 February 2014 - 04:54 AM

Hey guys, I finally got my AMPLIFI 75 watt yesterday. Check out this video of me jamming along with my JTV-69. I made a patch so all the acoustic and reso guitars sound good. Watch here:


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#33969 My Experience With Headphones Impedance On A Hd500

Posted by Cure4Optimism on 20 January 2014 - 03:07 AM

Hello,

 

         There has been discussion about headphones and the required impedance. I recently acquired an hd500 and was a bit skeptical about the requirement of high >300ohm impedance headphones.

I had a Sennheiser Amperior hedaphones, these are quite neutral, closed back, easy to drive low impedance headphones (18ohm). They cost about 150-200 euro. When paired with the hd500 I thought the sound was not bad, but the limited soundstage of closed back headphones made the sound quite congested. The worst was that I got random disgusting noises that I thought were caused by ground loops when connecting the pod to the computer.

Then I bought a Sennheiser Hd600, these are quite neutral too, but are 300 ohm and quite difficult to drive and open back. The sound now is really open, like if you were listening to an amp in a room, and best of all, there was no trace of the disgusting digital noises I had with the Amperiors. I bought them on amazon for 220 euros-

I tested with my IEMs, vsonic gr04, that are quite neutral-middle centric with low impedance, and I got the noises back. Although they have greater soundstage than the Amperiors, they sounded fatiguing and congested too.

So, IMHO, if you have to choose headphones to use with the POD’s HD:

·        Try to get high impedance headphones as Line6 recommends.

·        Open Back headphones will give you more open sound and a feel closer to playing through an amp.

I hope it helps someone

Nestor

PS: excuse my English, it’s not my native language…


  • 5


#33476 How Many Persons Rolled Back To A Before Hd Version?

Posted by edstar1960 on 17 January 2014 - 01:45 AM

Resurrecting an older thread...wondering if the folks that rolled back stayed or updated their firmware to 2.00?

Since I am relatively new to the Variax thing (Oct 2012) I don't really at this point see a need to rollback, so can anyone tell me WHY I might want to? :huh:  

 

If the v2.0 firmware is working fine for you then there is no reason to roll back.  

 

If you have never had experience with the pre-v2.0 releases then there is no comparison issue for you, so again, no reason to roll back, unless you are inquisitive and want to see for yourself what the pre-HD models sounded like, but be aware that the reflash process does not always go smoothly so if you try it ensure you do everything as recommended to minimise any risk of the operation fialing and having to be repeated numerous times.

 

If the v2.0 firmware has introduced a condition that you can't live with then you may want to roll back to a version without that condition. eg: for me it has introduced a loud popping noise when connected via VDI to HD500 and changing between patches that also force a model change on the JTV, this is not good for live use when changing patches mid song, so that has caused me to roll back to v1.9

For others, it has been the fact that you can no longer connect your JTV to workbench whilst connected to the HD500, you have to use the JTV USB dongle to connect to Workbench HD - that was loss of functionality which they considered important.

 

If you were accustomed to the model sounds from the earlier fw releases and had your live set tuned to those models, then the v2.0 models will cause you a problem because you will have to tweak everything to get back to something you like, and it may not be possible to reproduce exactly what you had because the actual model list has changed, some models have been replaced by other guitars with v2.0, plus well liked models like the Lester, Strat, Tele and Semi have been re-modelled possibly with different guitars and some now sound very different to the pre-v2.0 versions, so some people may try to tweak things to be more to their taste and may fail to get there, others may not want to be bothered, so to their ears the change has been "bad" and has not been an improvement as advertised and as expected by the HD association.  Some people had favourite models that were lost in the upgrade, so they had to choose whether to move on without those models or roll back to keep them.  For some, the new HD models were worth the sacrifice, but for others they were not.   Some people loved the new sounds immediately, others had to tweak them to get what they wanted, and others were met with what they thought sounded like "bad" and inferior model sounds, so moved straight back.

 

I think if the HD model set was a straight replacement for the pre-existing model set, just moving to better quality more realistic models of exactly the same guitars, then less people would have had issues. But the change was a combination of improved models possibly using different guitars, and completely new models nobody had before and losing some of the previous models.   Plus the actual installation of the fw is not always trouble free, even when following recommended instructions, so that puts people off immediately. Furthermore, there are known bugs that have still not been addressed.

 

Personally, I would like to move forward and stay on the latest and "greatest", but I have experienced the comparison "shock" in that the v2.0 HD models did not immediately live up to my expectations from hearing all the demo videos and in comparison to what I was accustomed to from my v1.71 model set, plus the confusion that the model list was not identical (not that I lost any favourite models, and not saying that some of the new models are not great additions to the selection, just that I had not realised it would be different), and I am frustrated by the inability to use Workbench HD when connected via my HD500, but the deal breaker was the fact that it introduced a loud popping sound when changing patches that forced model changes in the JTV from the HD500 when connected via VDI.    I am now back on v1.9 and have an open ticket with Line 6 support for the problem.  I am hoping they will address the issue, but given the fact that they have just been taken over by Yamaha, I am sure there are all sorts of things going off over there, and probably fixing bugs and releasing an update fw level is probably low on their list of priorities right now - which is a real shame.

 

Having said all of that, which I believe is a summary of all the issues I have seen reported, I am optimistic that these issues will be addressed in the fullness of time, I just wish they could fix them now!     :)


  • 5


#31371 Line 6 Should Offer Low Cost/free Upgrade From Hd To Hd-x

Posted by joel_brown on 03 January 2014 - 07:22 AM

DeAllen bought two of them.  I guess he deserves to be twice as mad.  

 

Show us something better for under $700 bucks.  As I posted before, even the AXE FXII has DSP limit issues.  The new DSP in the X series, at best, might get you one more effect, if you're lucky.  So it doesn't fix what you're asking to have fixed.


  • 5


#46182 Does The Jcm 800 Sound Broken To You?

Posted by radatats on 03 April 2014 - 02:31 PM

it sounds great, as I knew it would.  The real question is who really gives a flying lollipop if it sounds exactly like any particular amp?  The only question is does it sound good or not?  Can you get the tone you want or at least close enough to be happy?  There are so many things one can do with this gear and do them well I just don't get the hangups...  If you absolutely have to have an 800 exactly, go buy one...  Or maybe spend some time with this gear experimenting, mixing and matching cabs and mics and find the tone you really want... because you can get any tone you want.  to dump this simply because you don't think the 800 is a perfect match is ridiculous...


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