Dec 3, 2009 9:55 AM
X3L Amp Model Suggestions
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Hi there,
Got an X3L 3 weeks ago, & I'm trying to set it up for church. I understand Fletcher-Munson, & I've seen some great posts from some of you on gigging at church. I know it's better to use the Live (combo front) outs when using an amp only (which I am, a Blues Jr, all tube amp- great for blues, not so good for FX, miced with a '57), of course no amp/cab models coming out of the live 1/4" outs.
When I can finally talk the sound guy at church into meeting me to set it up directly into the board (via XLRs) he's going to say "too much distortion", etc. After all, he's a sound guy- it's what they do. Can someone suggest some nice clean amp models that won't blow him away when we first hook it up?
Lincoln's 18D sounds great to me at home, but I know a variac'd Plexi isn't going to fly. I like the sound of the Dbl Show, but not sure how it will sound there.
BTW, I think it's way cool that we can have this forum here, other places won't even let you mention church, God, etc.
Thanks for any responses/help!
take care, Pat
Pat, This is a tough one and I notice no one else jumping in as it were. Here is my opine..hope it is helpful. The X3 live , in my opinion, was engineered to run direct and running it in to a Blues Jr. doen't seem like a great match as the Blues Jr. really has a personality all of it's own. That being the case, I would think a volume pedal, compessor, chorus and delay would have done it. You can certainly use the X3 to do that configuration. I run mine in to a 50 watt Marshall solid state with a closed back aimed away from the congregation. I purposley run it as flat as possible and let the X3 do the heavy lifting.
Here is my exerience...When I first started playing with the worship group that I play with now, I agreed that the leader and the sound person had first right of refusal on the guitar tones that I used, no questions asked. Our leader makes the call on content. I don't do anything in a service that I haven't gone over in detail in rehearsal...No sneakin' stuff in after the fact.My goal has been to mimick as closely as posiible the guitar tones used on the recorded versions that I am given, and to physically place them sonically in the live mix as close as I can do it, in other words, I attempt to mix myself. My right foot is glued to my volume pedal most of time. As time has passed both the leader and the sound person have given me a great deal of lattitude based on that model, and trusting that, I don't abuse that freedom. Basically, if it's on the recording, I get to play it (if I can)! I will add that we play some pretty punchy contemporary worship tunes.
Here is an example. On the song Adoration, I use tons of distortion (Plexi amp model and Classic Distortion combined) with massive echo. In the first chorus and second verse I will use the volume pedal to create the cello part. Once again the challenge is to listen to the recording and pay attention to the placement of the cello in the mix.Second chorus I switch to a setting with less crunch and more phasing full chords on the whole note. The bridge is back to the first setting and using volume pedal, single note swells to get the sort of backwards tape loop sound that is mixed in with the strings. Then the last chorus is full chords and a great deal of restraint. This tact is basically treating a distorted guitar like a string section. If you listen to the recording, there is a huge, big 80's guitar sound shadowing the strings.
Whenever I approach playing, especially in church, I always bear in mind that, a punchy "distorted" guitar sound always gives the perception that it is loud, whether it is or not. Stay mindful of that. Prayerfully start slow, let everyone get used to new tones. I don't know if this was any help at all, but it was a great way to spend my break at work.
Good luck with X3, I don't know how I ever played without it!
Blessings, Strato,, (Don)
Thanks Stratotron, my right foot's glued to the volume pedal also!
I agree, the BJ isn't the best amp for this, but it's what I got. I understand the "less is more" concept, having graduated from a Boss ME-50 to the X3L. The ME50 has no amp/cab modeling, so I only used it for fx. Didn't even use OD/dist much because the one thing the BJ is good for is that. I do have a Roland Cube amp but it sounds a little "sterile" to my ears, I may try it also.
The notion of going straight into the board is intriguing to me, but I have no expereience with it, hence my post. I think I'll start very simple; as you said, volume, comp, chorus & delay. After I master that I'll work in some amp/cab stuff as well as some nice drive tones.
I've got it easy- it's a teen thing so I can pretty much play as hard as I want. I guess at 51 I'm more sensitive to overplaying than the rest of the choir/group.
Thanks again,
Pat
Pat,
You're still a kid! I just turned 59 and (last year) had really prayed about whether I should step aside and let the youngsters take over guitar duties. It is a very Abraham thing as I wouldn't have had the nerve to pray about getting to play at the level that I (we) get to play at now!
I too have a Roland monitor and as nice and light as it is, it just doesn't have the "body". And, once again, I too, came from an ME50 to, first, the XT Live and moved to the X3 Live as it has the XLR's. I still use the ME50 for my acoustic and just run it like a group of stomp boxes, in other words, I don't write patches and that kind of thing. I like the ME50, but for global patches and navigating tone to tone during a song or set, it doesn't even come close to X3 imho.
Do you get the Guitar Center e-mail Flyer? They have a "Lunchbox" amp that is 200watts, something like 7'x 9" w/t a 6.5" speaker. I am wondering if anyone out there knows anything about it? If they have one at the local GC, I may have to take it for a test drive as I am always looking to minimize my rig!
Thank you for recieving what I had said, believe me, I wasn't downing the Blues Jr. Before I got this Marshall, I was using a Hot Rod Deluxe, which was great if it is cranked up so the tubes can work...Not so good for church,as small adjustments had large effects, plus the controls located in the back, on chrome, with white lettering made me crazy.
You may have already done this, but before you run the X3 to the board, read up on the output section as you can tune the output signal (s). The other thing to check is panning of individual patches. Unless you are running it stereo, you'll need to pan the outputs to the center, or they can sound washy and weak and weird.
You probably are on top of all of this.
Blessings.. Strato (Don)
Calvary Escondido, California, by the way.
I guess you're referring to the ZT in the GC flyer, just got it today. It looks nice, but 200 watts into a 6.5" spkr? That's not going to last very long! I'd be interested in hearing that little monster, I'm sure it's lighter than a tube amp!
A few of my "purist" friends are dogging me for having the X3L, but I remind them that guys like Jimi, Duane, etc. used state-of-the-art stuff as it was coming out. If you're traveling in an unfamiliar place you could use a map, or you could use a GPS. I know which one I'd rather have!
It is hard for me though, when I play my Gibby semi all I ever use is gtr/cord/amp and I always get tone compliments. I know that those same (and better) tones are in the X3, I just have to learn how to get them out of there. I will, I just have to be patient.
Thanks again Don. I'm near Atlanta.
Pat
BTW, I finally learned how to move stuff around in gearbox (un-selecting channels/tones/banks drove me crazy), so maybe there's hope...
In my little experience with playing electric and the X3L is to use an amp that has very little personality, this is your on stage just so you can hear amp. As far as too much crunch let the sound guy decide. Things I have thought were too much my sound guy just turned down and it ended up sounding nice. Personally I never try a new sound without bringing a laptop, things are much easier to adjust things in gear box. Back to the subject two things I have noticed it crunch is always too loud or too much for a few people in the service, and if you are playing clearly well voiced solo's people tend not to notice if it was too much or not, so long as you don't over power the band.
I stick with the AC30 and then just mess with the stomp, chorus and delay. Every now and then I will pull out the plexi lead, and I am beginning to become a fan of the tweed amp. Hope that helps.
Zem
Pat,
Thanks for the post - I'm in about the same boat you are, although I've been taking it very slow. We're on our 3rd sound guy since I bought the X3L 3 months ago, which has given me pause to get my sounds right before I introduce at church. I've focused on getting a decent general purpose clean tone first, and I've settled on the Blackface Lux. From there, I've been working on some semi-dirty tones and then the Brewster 18 sounds for lead - I've cranked these back a bit, but as long as you don't try these for rhythm chords, they sound good as lead tones. The semi-dirty (for rhythm crunch "suitable for church") tones have caused me the most problem, as I haven't found something that I really like yet. Soon as I do, I'll be working with the sound guy and get the XL3 in the mix.
BTW, I'm about 90 miles from Atlanta.
Having fun in church,
Alton
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