Mar 27, 2009 6:52 PM
Sound levels for jamming VS Live
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I am new to the pod world. I have found and made some patches that I love with the headphones on, but the sound changes when running thru PA with a lot of volume. I have tried to make patches as loud as possible without clipping, starting with cleans, and then adjusting to level out. I am also turning the master as high as i can, and using less Main PA volume. Any suggestions.
Do a Google Search on Fletcher Munson. You will find out why the patches sound different.
Cheers,
Crusty
Here's a link to get you started.
http://www.sfu.ca/sonic-studio/handbook/Equal_Loudness_Contours.html
Ideally, you should build your patches for the volume you will be playing at.
Cheers,
Crusty
A quick and dirty way to use a patch at loud volumes that you created with headphones is to turn down the bass and treble/presence controls when you play loud, until it sounds good.
You can create an EQ setting to do this or you can create 2 sets of patches, one for recording/headphones and one for loud/live playing.
Check out the links you've been given. Get ready to learn some new concepts...tweaking patches for live use is a definite learning experience.
+1 for what DarkZenGuitar said.
I went through the process of measuring my bedroom level and gig level with an SPL meter. I took the difference in dB and used the FM curve chart to figure out about how much Bass and Treble to adjust. In my case, I tweak my presets and bedroom level so I set the EQ to -4dB bass and -3dB Treble when playing at gig volume. It's not perfect but it works pretty good in a pinch if you don't have time to tweak at the gig. There are more variable involved but this will at least get you started in the right direction.
I use the following EQ curve while building patches at low volume and then switch off the EQ when playing loud. This EQ curve acts like a loudness button on a stereo. I have this curve saved as a template in Line 6 Edit for use with the PODxt Live and Vetta. Unfortunately templates and default settings for effects cannot be saved in the POD X3 Live which is a considerable limitation of the X3.
A curve like this compensates for the loss of high and low frequencies at low volume. When you switch it off you can raise the volume to gigging level. There is no single perfect solution as the compensation will need to vary depending on the difference in low volume levels and high volume levels.
Cheers,
Crusty
Thnks for all the info, I will spend the rest of the weekend studying and learning. I appreciate the quick response.
That is a very cool idea...thanks!
OM
Great info. Thanks for this!
Line6Miller
I always remember a post last year where one of the old-timers here said he carries around a $40 EQ box for giging, and plugs it in between the POD and the PA. No more having to tweak each patch separately, or make duplicate patches for bedroom and full volume. I'm not a performer but it sounded like a good idea to me.
Would this be a good idea for a future POD X4? Some sort of global switchable EQ that effects the output of all patches?
All of your input is much appreciated. I am still confused, but think progress is being made. One of the ideas I had was to use my Boss GE-7 EQ in the effects loop. Is there any way anyone would know where to start with setting this pedal and will this even work? Thanks again for all the support.
If you put it in the effects loop, then you have to turn it on for every patch, and off for low levels. I _think_ you can just put it between the X3L and the amp or PA, and then you don't have to change your programmed tones at all. I don't understand all the dBu dBV business, so I can't say if things match up properly, but I _think_ they are close enough if you set the Live Out switch to LINE instead of AMP.
A simple solution is to put a small mixer with good EQ controls between the POD and the FOH Mixer. This way you can use the balanced XLR outputs and keep your stereo. I use a Tapco MIX100 because it has balanced outputs on it. Even though patches are built for playing out loud, it is handy to have Low Mid and Hi EQ adjustment on the mixer to compensate for a room.
The Vetta II has a global EQ (just low and hi) for quick easy adjustment to suit the playing environment which doesn't affect your patch programs.
Cheers,
Crusty
Okay, that makes a lot of sense about the mixer. I have a small 10 channel behringer mixer, not the best, but it works. So if I put that in between the x3L and house pa then i can eq that? IF i run the x3l into the mixer at home for practice, I simply put the mixer eq all at 12 oclock, which i assume zero;s out mixer, why cant one just adjust the eq on the mixer they are going into for eq of the loud sounds? Okay think i am confusing myself again. Yikes. Thanks again Crusty for all your help and continued help, you may not know what you are in for my friend. Ha. Does that make any sense, I guess that is understandable. So if i crank the volume of my Mixer, can i EQ the Bass Treble and Mid of the two channels my xlr cables are going to, or am i just fighting the eq of the saved patches? If I turn the bass and treble down, it just doesnt sound that good. THis method is only good when the house can adjust the overall sound? Not confused at all.yeah
So what is the best method to setup within Jamming and Live?
1) using external EQ?
2) using EQ in the POD?
3) using mixer?
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