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4590 Views 15 Replies Latest reply: Nov 28, 2009 2:53 AM by dark_tern RSS
lithoman Just Startin' 8 posts since
Jun 9, 2007
Currently Being Moderated

Mar 27, 2009 6:52 PM

Sound levels for jamming VS Live

I am new to the pod world. I have found and made some patches that I love with the headphones on, but the sound changes when running thru PA with a lot of volume. I have tried to make patches as loud as possible without clipping, starting with cleans, and then adjusting to level out. I am also turning the master as high as i can, and using less Main PA volume. Any suggestions.

  • Crusty_Old_Rocker Expert Line 6 User 2,739 posts since
    Jan 24, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 27, 2009 6:55 PM (in response to lithoman)
    Re: Sound levels for jamming VS Live

    Do a Google Search on Fletcher Munson.  You will find out why the patches sound different.

     

    Cheers,

     

    Crusty

  • Crusty_Old_Rocker Expert Line 6 User 2,739 posts since
    Jan 24, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 27, 2009 7:00 PM (in response to lithoman)
    Re: Sound levels for jamming VS Live

    Here's a link to get you started.

     

    http://www.sfu.ca/sonic-studio/handbook/Equal_Loudness_Contours.html

     

    Ideally, you should build your patches for the volume you will be playing at.

     

    Cheers,

     

    Crusty

  • DarkZenGuitar Just Startin' 387 posts since
    Apr 10, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 27, 2009 9:14 PM (in response to lithoman)
    Re: Sound levels for jamming VS Live

    A quick and dirty way to use a patch at loud volumes that you created with headphones is to turn down the bass and treble/presence controls when you play loud, until it sounds good.

    You can create an EQ setting to do this or you can create 2 sets of patches, one for recording/headphones and one for loud/live playing.

    Check out the links you've been given.  Get ready to learn some new concepts...tweaking patches for live use is a definite learning experience.

    • timowens Gear Head 1,230 posts since
      May 14, 2007
      Currently Being Moderated
      Mar 27, 2009 10:52 PM (in response to DarkZenGuitar)
      Re: Sound levels for jamming VS Live

      +1 for what DarkZenGuitar said.

       

      I went through the process of measuring my bedroom level and gig level with an SPL meter. I took the difference in dB and used the FM curve chart to figure out about how much Bass and Treble to adjust. In my case, I tweak my presets and bedroom level so I set the EQ to -4dB bass and -3dB Treble when playing at gig volume. It's not perfect but it works pretty good in a pinch if you don't have time to tweak at the gig. There are more variable involved but this will at least get you started in the right direction.

  • Crusty_Old_Rocker Expert Line 6 User 2,739 posts since
    Jan 24, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 27, 2009 10:57 PM (in response to lithoman)
    Re: Sound levels for jamming VS Live

    I use the following EQ curve while building patches at low volume and then switch off the EQ when playing loud.  This EQ curve acts like a loudness button on a stereo.  I have this curve saved as a template in Line 6 Edit for use with the PODxt Live and Vetta.  Unfortunately templates and default settings for effects cannot be saved in the POD X3 Live which is a considerable limitation of the X3.

     

    loudness.jpg

     

    A curve like this compensates for the loss of high and low frequencies at low volume.  When you switch it off you can raise the volume to gigging level.  There is no single perfect solution as the compensation will need to vary depending on the difference in low volume levels and high volume levels.

     

    Cheers,

     

    Crusty

  • ricksox UberGuru 11,641 posts since
    Mar 28, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 31, 2009 3:16 PM (in response to lithoman)
    Re: Sound levels for jamming VS Live

    Great info. Thanks for this!

     

     

    Line6Miller

  • ClassicalDad Just Startin' 194 posts since
    Nov 17, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 31, 2009 3:26 PM (in response to lithoman)
    Re: Sound levels for jamming VS Live

    I always remember a post last year where one of the old-timers here said he carries around a $40 EQ box for giging, and plugs it in between the POD and the PA. No more having to tweak each patch separately, or make duplicate patches for bedroom and full volume. I'm not a performer but it sounded like a good idea to me.

    • ClassicalDad Just Startin' 194 posts since
      Nov 17, 2007
      Currently Being Moderated
      Mar 31, 2009 9:29 PM (in response to lithoman)
      Re: Sound levels for jamming VS Live

      If you put it in the effects loop, then you have to turn it on for every patch, and off for low levels. I _think_ you can just put it between the X3L and the amp or PA, and then you don't have to change your programmed tones at all. I don't understand all the dBu dBV business, so I can't say if things match up properly, but I _think_ they are close enough if you set the Live Out switch to LINE instead of AMP.

      • Crusty_Old_Rocker Expert Line 6 User 2,739 posts since
        Jan 24, 2007
        Currently Being Moderated
        Mar 31, 2009 11:30 PM (in response to ClassicalDad)
        Re: Sound levels for jamming VS Live

        A simple solution is to put a small mixer with good EQ controls between the POD and the FOH Mixer.  This way you can use the balanced XLR outputs and keep your stereo.  I use a Tapco MIX100 because it has balanced outputs on it.  Even though patches are built for playing out loud, it is handy to have Low Mid and Hi EQ adjustment on the mixer to compensate for a room.

         

        The Vetta II has a global EQ (just low and hi) for quick easy adjustment to suit the playing environment which doesn't affect your patch programs.

         

        Cheers,

         

        Crusty

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