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1493 Views 14 Replies Latest reply: Dec 30, 2009 3:45 PM by mattbarden RSS
redsox305 Just Startin' 1 posts since
Oct 23, 2009
Currently Being Moderated

Nov 23, 2009 11:28 AM

Powered Speakers For X3 Live?

I recently got the Pod X3 and am still learning all it has to offer. So far it sounds great for digital recording, even through crappy computer speakers. When I plug into the my combo amp, it pretty much sucks. Based on my experience with getting great tones through cheap computer speakers, and in talking with other modeling users, it seems a powered PA speaker set up might be best for live/practice use rather than going through the amp (both direct or through the effects loop). Does anyone here have suggestions for a powered PA speaker for use with the X3 Live? Thanks in advance!

  • guitarplayer888 Just Startin' 3 posts since
    Jul 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 25, 2009 11:15 AM (in response to redsox305)
    Re: Powered Speakers For X3 Live?

    I would love to see a good answer to this question as I've had the exact same struggle.  My X3L is great for computer recording and fun to play by myself, but as soon as I get in a room with other musicians playing at proper volume, especially where there are two guitarists, the X3L simply does not cut through the band.  With clean patches its almost bearable, but with overdriven and distorted sound its all sizzle and mud - no tone.

     

    Its possible I'm both too skeptical and missing something, but I have a feeling there is no good solution or else L6 would have posted it very clearly or sold a set of tones designed especially for live applications.

  • variAxel Just Startin' 25 posts since
    Jan 1, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 15, 2009 5:00 AM (in response to redsox305)
    Re: Powered Speakers For X3 Live?

    I use the Atomic reactor FR with my X3L and am fully satisfied with it for my needs of power and so on (the Atomic that is, not the entire rig) after having tested it at rehearsal and on stage a few times. I also have a Fender hot rod deluxe tube amp with analog pedals to compare to (I believe the Fender can play louder than the Atomic, but haven´t tested that really).

     

    But I had a problem with the sound being "trashy" or "phasey" or something like that. It didn´t really sound good, especially when played together with other instruments. Or it became more obvious then.

     

    I have been discussing this issue in another thread here. And the conclusion is that it is propably because of the mic simulations. They should be turned off when the X3L is connected to the Atomic FR or other fullrange amp, to get the "amp in the room" sound and feel. The problem is that the only way to turn off mic sims is to also turn off cab-sims! Which means the sound output to a fullrange system like the Atomic FR will be wrong.

     

    There is the solution: sell the X3L and get a Vetta instead... I don´t want to do that.

  • Captain_Sensible Just Startin' 80 posts since
    Dec 11, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 21, 2009 9:47 AM (in response to redsox305)
    Re: Powered Speakers For X3 Live?

    Is there no good solution to this question?  I had an X3 Live and sold it because I was really only using it for one amp model.  That said, I'm sorry I did but it did sound pretty darn good.  But through a headset.  If someone could recommend a good solution for live play that didn't cost a fortune, I would certainly go out and buy another X3.

  • mattbarden Just Startin' 18 posts since
    Mar 28, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 27, 2009 3:08 PM (in response to redsox305)
    Re: Powered Speakers For X3 Live?

    After doing a lot of research, believe it or not what worked the best for me was incredibly inexpensive. I run two Monster XLR cables out of the direct outs on the back of my X3L into two 150 watt Harbinger APS12 powered speakers and it sounds fricking incredible. Total cost of $350.00 + a little tax and thats all you should ever need. If you need larger, that venue WILL have a more powerful house system you can plug your X3 into and then just use one (or both I guess) of your speakers for a stage moniter. Check it out for yourself, I personally don't notice nearly enough sonic difference from the Atomics to make that much of a price jump justifiable and I am a total sound nazi. If you don't like them, you can always just return them before the satisfaction guarentee runs out.

    • mattbarden Just Startin' 18 posts since
      Mar 28, 2008
      Currently Being Moderated
      Dec 27, 2009 3:19 PM (in response to mattbarden)
      Re: Powered Speakers For X3 Live?

      BTW the Atomics really are quite bad ***. If your having issues with cutting through, I would guess your tone just needs a little tweaking. Those thing were made to run modeling equipment to the point it should sound like the "real amp" being played. Possibly adjust your parametric eq if you think the mic sims are to blame, when you boil it down to it, this is modeling, meaning those "mics" in reality are more or less just digital frequency filters that you should be able to compensate for somewhat with the parametric eq. Patience with tweaking, patience, it does take a really LONG time to find your sound with these devices for many reasons. I can offer suggestions, they may not have the same results for you but its a start. Feel free to PM me.

      • variAxel Just Startin' 25 posts since
        Jan 1, 2008
        Currently Being Moderated
        Dec 27, 2009 5:41 PM (in response to mattbarden)
        Re: Powered Speakers For X3 Live?

        If you think modelling means frequency filtering then you have to rethink. The mic sims includes phase alterations of the mics and propably more variables. Modelling means capturing, in best case scenario, all audible variables of the physical unit that is modelled.

        If it takes a lot more time to find your sound with a modeller than with the real thing then there is some kind of basic problem to solve.

        Examples:

        * You want the sound and feel of a tube amp and use an FRFR system that can´t deliver that properly even if you had the ultimate amp/cab sim. Are you really sure that your FRFR can compare to the tube amps/cabs modelled?

        * You believe the mic sims are essentially frequency altering and think you can get the amp in room sound and feel just by altering a graphic eq. Rethink and turn off the cab/mic sim and patch the Pod through an external cab sim.

         

        I don´t have any problems getting the sounds I want in short time, taking into consideration the natural limits of the other gear I use. There is nothing wrong with the preset settings of the amps that the Pod has, sure they can be altered according to taste, but that is the case with any amp. I know many people have trouble getting the tones they want, but I see no proof that it has to do with the models being hard to tune...

        • mattbarden Just Startin' 18 posts since
          Mar 28, 2008
          Currently Being Moderated
          Dec 27, 2009 6:34 PM (in response to variAxel)
          Re: Powered Speakers For X3 Live?

          I wasn't saying the mics are simply eq changes, I was just trying to make the point that it is obvisouly not a real mic we're talking about here. What I should have said is simply, if it sounds good, use it. I don't worry about turning off the mic sims on any of my patches that I run. I tend to think a little outside the box and sometimes I say things that make perfect sense to me and fall kinda off base with other people. Sorry for the misunderstanding. It doesn't bother me that there is a "mic" involved in my sound coming out of my equipment.

          • variAxel Just Startin' 25 posts since
            Jan 1, 2008
            Currently Being Moderated
            Dec 28, 2009 8:07 AM (in response to mattbarden)
            Re: Powered Speakers For X3 Live?

            Thank you for your kind answer, I was afraid I answered in a harsch way. It is hard to discuss complicated stuff like this on the Internet I feel.

            Anyway, it doesn´t bother me either, really, if there is a mic in the signal path. But it seems to me that by removing that mike I instantly get to sounds I like. But with the mike I have to do fine adjustments to get a reasonable sound, but it never gets really "right". That´s for live use. For recording, the mike-sound feels good.

            My intention was not to say there is one "right" way to get your sound...

            • mattbarden Just Startin' 18 posts since
              Mar 28, 2008
              Currently Being Moderated
              Dec 28, 2009 3:05 PM (in response to variAxel)
              Re: Powered Speakers For X3 Live?

              To me the mics are more or less another tone shaper since I don't play out of a regular guitar amp. In my situation, without the mic there it would be "less realistic" in a sense. Meaning my POD comes out through powered PA speakers, so in order for that to happen if I had been using a regular guitar amp, the cab would be mic'd up to go through the house, so I just use whatever one hits my G spot and go with it!

              • variAxel Just Startin' 25 posts since
                Jan 1, 2008
                Currently Being Moderated
                Dec 29, 2009 2:28 AM (in response to mattbarden)
                Re: Powered Speakers For X3 Live?

                If i understand you correctly you are doing the same as me (when I was using the Pod), using an FRFR monitor on stage (with mic sims) and same sound to the PA-system?

                Now when I have started to use the Tonelab, which has no mic-sims, I don´t get the mic-sims in my FRFR on stage, which should (at least in theory) sound more like an actual amp in room. I want that.

                But the sound to the PA-system will not be a miced up sound now, I think it will sound more like having a couple of amps on stage pointing straight out at the audience, as they did it way back in the old days.

                I don´t see anything good (in MY theory that is!!) in having the coloration of a mic, it is just a necessary thing to get the sound of a real amp out of the PA, so I think I might like this way of doing it. Will test it on next show.

  • sort Just Startin' 3 posts since
    Dec 21, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 29, 2009 7:05 PM (in response to redsox305)
    Re: Powered Speakers For X3 Live?

    It might help if you can you explain in what way it sounds bad and how you have it hooked to your amp.

     

    Here's what I've noticed and experienced.

     

    When I got my X3 live I spent a decent amount of time trying to figure out what to play it through for live situations.  When I went to practice and connecting using XLR into a mixer which was hooked into powered speakers it sounded awesome! (still does)

     

    When I tried through a powered speaker at home it sounded distorted on the low end in a really bad/noisy way.

     

    One day at practice I hooked directly into one of the powered speakers bypassing the mixer and it sounded bad, just like at home with my powered speaker.  These are the same powered speakers it sounds great with when going through a mixer.  Basically I think the mixer was rolling off some of the lows resulting in the x3 live sounding great when going through the mixer, but not when going directly into the speaker.

     

    It's been awhile since I've dealt with this since I have everything set where I want but I use the parametric EQ to roll off some of the really low bass.  I probably backed off some of the bass on the amp model I'm using on the x3 live which is one of the Mesa models.

    • variAxel Just Startin' 25 posts since
      Jan 1, 2008
      Currently Being Moderated
      Dec 30, 2009 12:06 PM (in response to sort)
      Re: Powered Speakers For X3 Live?

      It sound phasey/trashy, don´t know how to describe it better.

      When connected using live out without cab/mic sim to my Fender HR deluxe there is no problem.

      But when connecting the same way using cab/mic sim to my Atomic Reactor FRFR it sounds like that.

      I have got two suggestions, one is to not use the mic sims and the other is a couple of example patches on how to get a good sound. I will test theese.

  • mattbarden Just Startin' 18 posts since
    Mar 28, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 30, 2009 3:45 PM (in response to redsox305)
    Re: Powered Speakers For X3 Live?

    You are still using cab sims though, right? In theory, you should turn those off as well when using an amp or stack setup. The guitar voiced speakers already equipped will screw with your tone and make it sound kinda trashy is what I would call it as well. It really depends on what your connecting to really as to how much control you really want in this area. For anything that involves a PA, I would definetley be using the cab and mic sims (I always turn all the room off on the mics, if I want "room noise" I just use reverb instead.) But then if you were going direct out to the house PA but using a guitar amp for a stage moniter, things would be different. I couldn't pull it off actually because my tone is based on blending two amps together, so no dual tone to save me either in this situation. That, my friends is the reason I choose to go with powered speakers before anything else. Consistancy is so very priceless.

     

    For those powered speakers you had that didnt sound good without a mixer involved - Is there an input level or trim setting you can use on these powered speakers somewhere? Technically Line 6 says you should have that set as low as possible and the master volume on the X3 should be maxed for best sound ratio. From what you described anyways, I would guess that the mixer was trimming off some of your sound for you but this just got overlooked on the powered speakers and was set to high. Sometimes I forget to think about that stuff and am left going why the hell isnt this sounding right? and then have one of those I'm an idiot moments, we all do it once in a while, come on now. Hope that helps!

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