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  • Karl_Houseknecht Expert Line 6 User 3,732 posts since
    Jan 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    15. Jan 13, 2010 6:45 AM (in response to captainbob)
    Re: Lack of support for Linux

    captainbob wrote:

     

    If a project is under the GPL then anything you derive from it must also be released under the GPL.

     

    You understand that just because Linux, the operating system, is under the GPL, that software you write that runs on that OS doesn't have to be under the GPL, right?

     

    If you write a word processor in Java or C++ or whatever, for Linux, you're not deriving that code from the Linux kernel.  You're creating a completely independent executable that runs on top of the OS.

  • nuser101 Just Startin' 178 posts since
    Jan 24, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    16. Jan 13, 2010 8:32 AM (in response to captainbob)
    Re: Lack of support for Linux

    Here is the title of the relevant section of the GPL license structure:

     

    GNU GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE    TERMS AND CONDITIONS FOR COPYING, DISTRIBUTION AND MODIFICATION

     

    Immediately, one can notice that it refers strictly to copying, distribution and modification, and does not refer to new software at all. However, there is a big, big bone of as yet unresolved tension in the open source community as to what constitutes a "derivative work."

     

    For example, I write software that calls upon a system service (say file i/o, or window drawing routine). There are those in the open source community that say that the minute I do that on a linux box, I am under GPL, because I have written derivative code that relies on GPL for functionality. In other words, even if I charged for it, the subsequent user would have the right to give it away, and I would have to release my source code as well.

     

    This aspect of GPL is very much in dispute, and has not been resolved, insofar as I'm aware. Anybody else have any further legal docs on this? I know there are restricted drivers out there, and some charge for them. However, in those cases, it is quite possible that the driver is written as a "black box", and doesn't care or know about the operating system that requests its services.

  • mikey1 Just Startin' 524 posts since
    Jan 24, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    17. Jan 13, 2010 9:17 AM (in response to captainbob)
    Re: Lack of support for Linux

    So, let's see if I'm understanding. The IT guys at your wife's work hate Linux. They cant do a thing with it and she has to hire a specialist from California. And it took you three weeks to find recording software that works on your system. Sign me up I'm sold!

     

    I probably made a record during those three weeks but hey, I'm a dinosaur. I'm still using tape and vacuum tubes. I'm still using mics from the 40's.

     

    I dont think Linux will ever catch on in big studios. Mac/Protools has that sewn up. They are just as concerned with being cool as the code monkeys are. And there are musicians that think Protools has some magical specialness that will make their record sound better. And, speaking of dinosaurs, big studios are closing all over the world.

     

    I'd also have to point out that most custom built dedicated recording computers like the ones Sweetwater or Spectral build, use 32bit XP.

     

    Oh yea, I worked in IT way back in '98. Only for a short time. I hated it. And, it's Mikey, not Mickey.

  • spaceatl Expert Line 6 User 4,456 posts since
    Jan 24, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    18. Jan 13, 2010 10:18 AM (in response to captainbob)
    Re: Lack of support for Linux

    Here's the rub...Linux only has a 0.61% - 5% share of the destop market depending on who's data you believe...I tend to think it's in the 3% area...Not much of a market once you narrow that down to guitar players that use Line 6...

     

    Besides, if Edit and Monkey were TRUE JAVA applications then you could simply copy them onto your Linux workstation and they would run...That doesn't even work between Windows and OSX (Berkley Unix)...

     

    The source code you are talking about is any source your app uses that is under GPL...That is, if you change it and re-compile the kernel to optimize your application...You can still sell the application, but you must provide any changed GPL source...Hence, the market is smaller for that kind of advanced workflow...It really doesn't matter, anythign can be de-compiled...

  • Karl_Houseknecht Expert Line 6 User 3,732 posts since
    Jan 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    19. Jan 13, 2010 10:42 AM (in response to spaceatl)
    Re: Lack of support for Linux

    spaceatl wrote:

     

    Here's the rub...Linux only has a 0.61% - 5% share of the destop market depending on who's data you believe...I tend to think it's in the 3% area.

     

    Some harder numbers for desktop OS based upon web client usage statistics (admittedly inexact) are

     

    Windows: 90.22%

    Mac OS: 5.93%

    Linux: 1.04%

     

    That really puts things in perspective.  As much as my Mac loving buddies who would try to convert me would like (and I must admit, it is an attractive platform), we're talking about a 15th of the market share that Windows enjoys.  It's no wonder that nobody writes viruses for the Mac or linux...because aside from the security implications in attempting that feat, there's a much smaller return on investment.  Same goes for software.  Mac OS-X is the most successful unix-like OS out there for the desktop.  Still, there's not nearly the variety of applications out there that there is for the Win platform.  I'm still waiting for Reaper to come out of beta for OS-X, and it's been there for a while.  Sure, you could argue ProTools but that's a big hardware/software investment.  And TonePort support for Snow Leopard isn't there yet either.  To make the switch, I'd need both of those things.

     

    I played the "install the obscure OS" game many times.  First time was OS/2 Warp back in 94 or so.  What I found out from that little escapade, after I finally got my hardware working with it, was that there was no useful software available.  So about 15 years later when my mother's computer became wildly infected with malware and she had also misplaced her XP disc, I installed Ubuntu.  Admittedly, not bad.  It had OpenOffice, Firefox, Thunderbird...basically everything she used already.  But it had no support for her sound card or HP scanner.  So she ended up buying another copy of XP.

     

    I'll admit, if it wasn't for needing good, commercially available recording software, Ubuntu is a cool option.  I'd install it on a cheap laptop in a second for web/email usage.  But if I had to go for something more fully featured and supported, it'd be the Mac OS over Ubuntu in a heartbeat.  In fact, when my wife's PC finally dies, she's getting a Mac Mini or a Macbook of some kind.

  • pbear5 Just Startin' 472 posts since
    Jan 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    20. Jan 13, 2010 2:06 PM (in response to captainbob)
    Re: Lack of support for Linux

    "pbear, how many times in Windows do you go to open a program, and it fails to load?"  Zero

     

    "How many times does a program lock up?"  not often--usually only when i've reached my RAM limit.  it happens more than on my Mac but, again, i'm running multiple appications all day long.

     

    "If you've been running a system for a while, over a year, how long does it take to boot?"  I've had this computer for around 2 years, i have defragmented only a couple of times (i don't consider defragmenting to be "out of the question"--you realize that this can be scheduled to occur while you sleep right?--i just don't feel that it's needed.)  Boot times have not increased noticeably but i have the same hardware and software (give or take some updates) that i've always had--corporate is very strict about what can be installed.  Again, i think it goes back to the complexity vs. stability thing--the more crap you load your computer up with the less stable it will become--i've learned and re-learned this lesson on every Windows machine i've had.  on my work computer i probably have less than 30 applications installed and i'm not constantly installing and uninstalling things so, i guess, my registry stays pretty safe.  I agree that, under normal home use, the older a Windows install gets the screwier it gets and I don't think that an annual fresh installation is a bad thing to consider--it certainly gets you thinking about backup strategies which too many people ignore.

     

    "Linux being free is not the only advantage.  Its also secure.  You are not running in the equvilent of root all the time.  How much resource sucking anti malware do you have to run, just to be able to keep viruses off your pc?"  I am behind a hardware firewall, we run Symantec Antivirus and we have a Spam Blocking service--that's it.  Personally i don't buy that Viruses do as much harm as people--especially tech support--would like us to believe.  When I had a PC at home i never ran Antivirus and only used Windows Firewall.  so how do you know that one of the contributors to Linux hasn't set up something that will give him direct access to your computer?  is there someone who inspects the code for stuff like this?

     

    so, let's say your worst Windows 7 paranoid fantasy comes true and a virus wipes out your entire drive.  was that so bad?  didn't you have your important docs backed up--a bad drive is probably more likely to wipe out data than a virus so you should have had that data backed up anyway.  certainly no reason to own a computer and not have it connected to the internet.  as far as a source of personal information--my wife's former employer found a temp had taken home employment records and had them scattered all over her apartment--people have access, you should have protection.

     

    "Crashes after installing freeware are probably due to the freeware being infected with a virus."  i'm more inclined to believe that free software is poorly written and/or insufficiently tested.  you are free to think it's due to a virus--the programmers will appreciate that.  i'm not a hacker but, if i were going to spend time creating a virus, i wouldn't take the Captain Choas approach of doing some minor, niggling glitch that attaches itself to a freeware download.  i'd create a virus that made fart noises every time you clicked your mouse--more of a Cartman approach.

  • spaceatl Expert Line 6 User 4,456 posts since
    Jan 24, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    21. Jan 13, 2010 12:19 PM (in response to Karl_Houseknecht)
    Re: Lack of support for Linux

    My next family PC will be an iMac...

     

    So your mom was making documents in Open Office, surfing the net on Firefox while drinking a bottle of Thunderbird?

  • Karl_Houseknecht Expert Line 6 User 3,732 posts since
    Jan 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    22. Jan 13, 2010 12:26 PM (in response to spaceatl)
    Re: Lack of support for Linux

    Nah. Mad Dog 20/20

  • nuser101 Just Startin' 178 posts since
    Jan 24, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    23. Jan 13, 2010 2:28 PM (in response to Karl_Houseknecht)
    Re: Lack of support for Linux

    Just for the record, I SAID IT FIRST!

    "That said, I would not expect Line 6 or Boss, or any other company, to write for Linux for the simple reason that the market is not there, nor does it seem to be growing at the rate that would cause Mac or MS to worry about it.  Current estimates have it at 1.5 - 2.5% (the upper estimate is very generous in its assumptions) of the desktop market share."

     

    Just for the record, I'm DRUNK, and I don't mind admitting it.

     

    Just for the record, my company's first product "ALERT" herbicide, was granted its first regulatory approval today, and provides a green vehicle for delivery of a variety of herbicides that, heretofore, had been delivered with what some might consider nasty materials.

     

    Just for the record, this has nothing to do with Line 6 or its products, or maybe not even this thread, but I don't care.

  • mikey1 Just Startin' 524 posts since
    Jan 24, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    24. Jan 13, 2010 2:56 PM (in response to spaceatl)
    Re: Lack of support for Linux

    You're so sexy when you geekspeak.

  • fblamauer Just Startin' 15 posts since
    Jan 10, 2010
    Currently Being Moderated
    25. Jan 13, 2010 3:24 PM (in response to Karl_Houseknecht)
    Re: Lack of support for Linux

    Ubuntu is great, I'm am using it right now and it is actually my primary system that I do everything with. I have been windows free for over five years now. But, to be honest, writing a commercial app for linux doesn't make very much sense unless you are a Mozilla or a Google since the linux user base is very small and only technically proficient folks will use it as a primary system. Having said that, OS X and linux are both unix variants so if  you have working code for OS X then porting it to any other flavour of *nix  should be pretty easy. OS X is actually  BSD unix in case you didn't know.

  • Karl_Houseknecht Expert Line 6 User 3,732 posts since
    Jan 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    27. Jan 13, 2010 3:39 PM (in response to nuser101)
    Re: Lack of support for Linux

    nuser101 wrote:

     

    Just for the record, I'm DRUNK, and I don't mind admitting it.

     

    my company's first product "ALERT" herbicide, was granted its first regulatory approval today

     

    Well, drink up then!  Congrats!

  • Karl_Houseknecht Expert Line 6 User 3,732 posts since
    Jan 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    28. Jan 13, 2010 3:40 PM (in response to fblamauer)
    Re: Lack of support for Linux

    fblamauer wrote:

     

    OS X is actually  BSD unix in case you didn't know.

     

    With some neXt stuff thrown in there, as well as some other.

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