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1319 Views 4 Replies Latest reply: Mar 10, 2010 12:56 AM by Nick_Mattocks RSS
hardsignal Just Startin'
hardsignal
2 posts since
Nov 2, 2006
Currently Being Moderated

Mar 9, 2010 10:07 AM

Valve MKII HD100 question(s)

Long time Line 6 fan, first time forum poster.

 

i own two spider III combos (75/150) and, imo,while the sound has always been a little thin for on-stage performance, as studio amps they rule. My main guitar is an American Fender 50th Anniversary Stratocaster with Seymour Duncan Hot Rails (Bridge) / Cool Rails (Neck) pickups.

 

I recently decided to rent & try out a Valve MKII HD100 head with my Line 6 Vetta cabinet, just to see if the tubes indeed made a difference in tone.

 

So far, (i've only had it for 2 weeks), i think the head is pretty great. The tubes indeed have fattened up the tone and the tweakability of parameters is amazing (remember i'm going from a Spider III, jumping several releases), however, there are a couple of issues i was wondering about and i'm hoping to get some help here.

 

Issue #1: Presets (or lack thereof)

It was my understanding when i picked up this head that it wielded all the same presets as earlier Spider models. I probably didn't read close enough but your website makes it seem that way and in fact, the sales guy at the music store i rented the head from also said the same thing. Obviously i've found out since that this is not the case.

 

My first question is a fairly simple yes or no answer i would imagine. I would like to know if there is a way to migrate presets from earlier Spider models to the Valve MKII. I ask because i have a couple of modified presets that i've been using for years and there is nothing on the Valve that even comes close, wehich is odd since the amp models are supposed to be same. And, i guess a part 2 to the question would be, if there is no way to export a preset, is there somewhere online (or off) where i can find the specs for the earlier model presets, so i can dial in the specs to get the ealrier model preset sound?

 

As you can imagine, after years of using the same 3 or 4 modded presets, I have grown quite used to the sound / tone and trying to play guitar without them is odd and puts me somewhat out of my comfort zone.

 

Any help would be appreciated.

 

Issue #2: Feedback (Too much!)


While it may not seem like it, this question is actually directly related to the first issue.

 

To preface my question, i need to mention the models i use on the Spider III are a Lacuna Coil mod for rhythm and a mod of Riggs "Insane" for lead playing. While i said before thay are a little thin for live performance, i have still used them many times for playing out. The thing is, when you turn the Spider III volume up (way up) with these presets, there is very little, if any, feedback. And the Riggs Insane model is obviously just that, insane as far as sustain and overdrive. And i can rip off the meanest licks, stop, without turning the guitar volume down and there is (practically) no noise, a little hiss maybe. No feedback though.

 

Which brings me to the problem i'm having with the Valve. In my many vain attempts to duplicate the sustain and growl of the Riggs model on the Valve, all i can get is overwhelming feedback when I turn this amp anywhere past 1 on the master volume dial. Constant ringing, obnoxious feedback.

 

Of course i have tried experimenting with the Gate and Noise Reduction settings (both up /both down/one or the other up or down/on or off/both on/differnet amounts of parameter/both/etc.) to no avail. It doesn't matter how far away i stand, 2 feet from the amp or 10 feet, doesnt matter where i stand in the speaker field. Feedback.

 

The only thing that fixes the problem is either turning down the model's drive or compression level, which obviously defeats any attempt at duplicating Riggs growl/sustain.

 

So i'm wondering, is it simply an inherent issue with tubes or is there some way of getting the Riggs sound on the MKII without the horrid feedback.

 

 

Thanks in advance to anyone who can answer/help mewith these isssues.

 

-rich f.

  • Pstrat Just Startin'
    Pstrat
    136 posts since
    Jan 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 9, 2010 11:14 AM (in response to hardsignal)
    Re: Valve MKII HD100 question(s)

    So I'd say that with high gain amps especially tube amps without noise gate or the like you'll get this uncontrollable feedback.  Are you using especially hot pickups?  Are they unpotted?  My take is, you have to Play a tube amp differently than a solid state.

     

    My suggestion:  Try the same amp model your using for the Riggs sound, turn down your gain, and add the compressor.  Than try using the Gate alone or  Noise reduction alone with very limited settings.  With My ESP Guitar I get a fair amount of feedback with some of the higher gain sounds.  So I don't use it for these tones (My PRS or my Les Paul with EMG) rather I use it for blues and out of phase strat sounds.

  • Nick_Mattocks Expert Line 6 User
    Nick_Mattocks
    8,791 posts since
    Mar 26, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 9, 2010 12:10 PM (in response to hardsignal)
    Re: Valve MKII HD100 question(s)

    Hi

     

    Issue #1 - No.  the Spider Valve MkII has 128 USER preset slots 1A - 32D.  There are no Song or Artist presets like the Spider III and Spider Valve MkI.  The first 64 preset slots are pre-loaded with some factory presets, but you can overwrite these too.  You will need to either dial the preset settings you like into the amp manually if you can find the settings in another amp or written down, or possibly load them from someone else's preset interpretation when Spider Valve Edit for Mac/PC comes out very shortly.

     

    You can find the settings for your existing Spider III if you go into Compare Mode - it's in the manual and these settings can be transferred manually to the Spider Valve

     

    Issue #2 - feedback on the particular settings you like (Riggs and Lacuna Coil) - I have a Spider III 150 March 07), Spider IV 150 (Sep 09) and a Spider Valve MkI (Nov 07) as well as a SV212 MkII (only yesterday).  These two presets are not ones I have spent any serious time with on the Spider III or SV MkI, but as you know uncontrollable feedback of the nasty variety has a number of contributory factors which are mainly related to too much gain and incorrect EQ settings, but speaker type and the enclosure can also be an influence.  A Spider Valve 4x12 cabinet is loaded with 4 Celestion Vintage 30 speakers which do add quite a distinctive flavour.  I'm not certain of the speakers in the Vetta cabinet, and I'm not suggesting there's anything wrong with the Vetta cabinet, just that it will probably be a bit different when paired with a Spider Valve head than a Spider Valve cabinet would be.

     

    The tubes in your Spider Valve may be contributing to the feedback issues - they shouldn't be, but it is a possibility.  Some tubes become microphonic - usually over time and at high volumes it is possible that they can feed back.  This is unlikely given your amp is so new, but possible nevertheless.  If the feedback were coming from the tubes, you would hear this if you did the 'pencil test' which is to use a pencil or preferably something better insulated like the plastic outer case of a BIC or Biro pen and gently tap the power tubes and the two 12AX7 tubes.  If you can hear the tapping through the speaker, then you have a microphonic tube and you should replace it.  Output (power) tubes should be replaced as a complete matched set and the amp should be re-biased, whilst the 12AX7 valves can be replaced individually and do not require biasing.  As I said this shouldn't be a problem with a brand new amp, but it might be.

     

    The firmware in your Spider Valve MkII should be at release 1.17.  If it is anything other than this, it is possible that the sound you hear may be slightly different from how it is intended to be - going on the differences in sound between the various firmware releases for the very similar Spider IV.  This will be updated shortly when the new Spider Valve Infusion is released along with the editor.

     

    There are more amp models in the Spider Valve MkII than there are in your Spider III amps and these are based on the POD X3 DSP versions rather than the versions in your Spider III which are based on POD 2.0 tones.  Inevitably there are differences in how factory presets in the Spider IV sound from those with the same names in the Spider III and consequently how the User presets in the Spider IV sound from those with the same names in the SV MkII.  In other words it's very subjective and based on someone else's opinion.

     

    The SV MkII auto-selects FX along with the amp model.  These may or may not be the same FX that accompany your favoured presets in the Spider III, and additionally they may be adjusted differently in the SV MkII at their default settings.

     

    You may need to adopt, the less is more approach when dialling in the settings for your favourite presets given that drive settings for the SV are likely to be a bit more agressive than those in the Spider III.

     

    Something you can do with the SV is to place an EQ or 'feedback destroyer' in the FX loop and with this you may be able to isolate and 'notch' out the frequencies which are giving rise to the feedback, and in doing so you may be able to adjust the EQ for those frequencies in the SV MkII.

     

    Nick

  • hardsignal Just Startin'
    hardsignal
    2 posts since
    Nov 2, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 9, 2010 12:22 PM (in response to hardsignal)
    Re: Valve MKII HD100 question(s)

    Thanks to both of you for answering so quickly. Much food for thought. I will try the "compare" mode and see what i can do about getting the Riggs settings onto the Valve.

     

    Funny how newbie i feel since i've been playing guitar for over 15 years and using Line 6 for at least 6 or 7 of those years.

     

    So many people i know tell me to just stick with a Boogie Rectifier if i want that sound, but the Line 6 version of it so much better lol!

     

    Crazy.

     

    Thanks again.

    • Nick_Mattocks Expert Line 6 User
      Nick_Mattocks
      8,791 posts since
      Mar 26, 2007
      Currently Being Moderated
      Mar 10, 2010 12:56 AM (in response to hardsignal)
      Re: Valve MKII HD100 question(s)

      Hi

       

      Please see the attached JPEG files.  I have gone into my original Spider Valve 112 in Compare Mode and found the settings for RIGGS INSANE and LACUNA COIL for you.  I found the chart image on Vettaville.nl and have used PhotoShop to add RED lines showing the positions of the various knobs and the appropriate colour for the AMP model - which in this case happens to be YELLOW in both cases.   You should note also that in Compare Mode there is some variation in the positions of the various knobs even when the lights indicate the settings re correct, so 100% accuracy isn't going to be there, but at least you should be in the right ball park.

       

      I've physically compared both RIGGS INSANE and LACUNA COIL on the original Spider Valve and on the new Spider Valve MkII using the settings I discovered from the Spider Valve and have copied into the Spider Valve MkIIand there are differences:

       

      RIGGS INSANE - on the SV MkI the reverb seems to be much less in evidence than the settings indicate and you may need to adjust the reverb type and decay; the Tape Echo Delay seems to repeat once only on the original SV but twice on the SV MkII you may need to adjust the Tap Tempo upwards by about a third more (rough guess).  Otherwise not too far off.  No feedback issues here to speak of.   Noise Gate/Reduction settings will need to be tweaked I expect

       

      LACUNA COIL - not too shabby.  Sounds reasonably close.  Noise Reduction/Gate settings may need to be modified.  This is quite a trebly sound anyway

       

      You should also be aware that my original Spider Valve 112 has been modified in that it has a Strymon SVpre set to the lowest gain (closest to the original) and it currently has a Celestion G12K100 speaker in place of the original Celestion Vintage 30 speaker.  My Spider Valve 212 MkII is completely stock with two Celestion Vintage 30 speakers and this will account for a slight difference in tone that I have noticed

       

      I hope these are of some use to you.  If you are still getting excessive feedback after applying these settings to a couple of the blank Default Preset slots, it *may* be guitar related, speaker cab related, releted to some other overdrive effct plugged in to the front of the amp that you haven't mentioned or microphonic tubes - try placing the amp head on a different surface other than on top of the speaker cab as this may help with the problem if for any reason it is microphonic tubes.

       

      Good Luck

       

      Nick

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