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Up to Discussions in Praise & Worship Band Musicians
2534 Views 12 Replies Latest reply: May 10, 2010 7:44 PM by dbaudrate RSS
hotraman Just Startin'
hotraman
16 posts since
Nov 19, 2007
Currently Being Moderated

Mar 9, 2010 9:35 PM

Has anyone experienced this?

Hello all:

Would like some insight on a situation that I encountered tonight.

Tonight I was playing lead guitar for another church. We were using IEM's, Aviom's and I was playing my X3L with my Gretsch Black Falcon. No amp, just going direct.

Well, the band told me they loved the tone of the Gretsch ( clean when played) and dirty (several variations of distortion/overdrive. Note: there was no distortion coming through any of the Avioms.

After the set was over, a newbie sound tech asked me if there was something wrong with my X3L ... he claims I was feeding him too much signal.  What? How would I know?

Was it possible that I was sending out too much signal through the XlR out? and that the Aviom wouldn't be afected?

Thanks for some insights!

Steve

  • eightthree Just Startin'
    eightthree
    101 posts since
    Jan 28, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 10, 2010 5:46 AM (in response to hotraman)
    Re: Has anyone experienced this?

    My guess is that the sound tech you were working with is just unfamiliar with receiving a line-level signal from a guitar setup. If you have your X3L's Master Volume set to only control the 1/4" outputs, then the XLR send will be a line-level signal. Is this the way you have it setup? Normally they'd be mic'ing an amp, so the signal level would be much lower.

     

    I can't answer the AVIOM question for you though, as I have very little experience with those units. How were you feeding the AVIOM? (From the board, straight from your X3L, or something else?)

    • hotraman Just Startin'
      hotraman
      16 posts since
      Nov 19, 2007
      Currently Being Moderated
      Mar 10, 2010 8:25 AM (in response to eightthree)
      Re: Has anyone experienced this?

      Thanks for the responses.

      This confirms what I thought: there was a new guy mixing that night at the church where I was "sitting in" on lead guitar.

      I went direct ( xlr) no amp or mic ( which is what I usually do.

      I am learning that most volunteer sound folks have some trouble mixing modelers direct. Also, I was playing a lot of distortion, then switching back to clean tones.

      The Aviom doesn't affect FOH sound at all. That's why I like it. Leading with big floor wedges is really hard for me to do, since I've become accoustomed to IEM. Also our back-line musicians mix their avioms through very small powered monitor speakers like the Mackie SM 150. At my home church we try to keep the on-stage volume down, so it doesn't over-power the FOH mix.

      Thanks for the reponses, any one else?

      Steve

      • Stratotron Just Startin'
        Stratotron
        110 posts since
        Mar 13, 2007
        Currently Being Moderated
        Mar 10, 2010 8:33 AM (in response to hotraman)
        Re: Has anyone experienced this?

        In the defense of new sound persons. I had read an article in a Worship Leaders Sound Magazine that I dont't remember the name of, and it had an article on distorted guitar, stating that the nature of a distorted guitar gives the perception of being loud. I always keep this in mind and sort of ease in to sections where my guitar tone may have a lot of "grease" on it, if you know what I mean.

         

         

        Strato

  • ZemanG2 Just Startin'
    ZemanG2
    65 posts since
    Nov 23, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 10, 2010 6:03 AM (in response to hotraman)
    Re: Has anyone experienced this?

    Yep happens all the stinking time! Check your line outs, to see what you are sending out, and check your guitar volume etc. I have a bad habit of cranking everything when I am at home then when I get to church the sound guy is yelling at me, so I simply turn my tone volume or guitar volume down a tad. But that is my experience. But it could also be the sound guy too. So if your original sound guy has no problem with your signal don't worry about it, but if they both agree start turning something down- but I would start by checking out output levels

     

    cheers

    • Stratotron Just Startin'
      Stratotron
      110 posts since
      Mar 13, 2007
      Currently Being Moderated
      Mar 10, 2010 8:15 AM (in response to ZemanG2)
      Re: Has anyone experienced this?

      I think this is on the sound guy, the operative being "newbie".  I can't imagine any signal from the X3, 1/4'' or XLR,  that couldn't be padded to the point of being useful. Please understand, I am not slamming the sound person's service, but I know I have run in to some very weird things coming from church sound folks...And have met some technical giants! God bless all of their servants hearts!

       

      While we are asking the "has anyone experienced this?" question...

      After several months, I backed up my X3 and while doing so downloaded some upgrades, one being a Flash Memory. There was a note stating that the pedal may need tweaking (calibrating) afterwards. It may be my imagination but after downloading the flash memory it seems like my X3 is "brighter" globally. In the practice room it didn't seem too bad however, my fear is that this brightness will translate into brittle at rehearsal Thursday. Any thoughts group?

       

      I looked at my output section and it was still set where I had left it.

       

      On another note..I was doing a contrast and compare to my old XT last night, and the XT in comparison sounded muddy and heavy. (Causing me to repent form an earlier comparison). I think my ears have grown acustom to the sparkle of the X3!

       

      I attempted to upload some of the tones I use but need to upgrade Gearbox and Line 6 edit...Will do that in the future.

       

      Sunday's set: (Tuning up for Easter)

       

      TODAY IS THE DAY Paul Baloche

      HOLY IS THE LORD  Brenton Brown

      COME, PEOPLE OF THE RISEN KING  Keith and Kristen Getty

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2bJxGE2YUg

      Here is a link to a live version of Hear Oh Israel/Come People of The Risen King. We are doing Come People..Sunday and adding Hear Oh Israel for Easter. Check out the close up of the Telecaster. Is it a relic or the real deal? Fresh out of Grandpa's closet! Great small ensemble,very solid!

      STRONGER Hillsongs

      GLORIFY THY NAME  Very standard-acoustic and piano only.

      (A great Sunday to be an electric guitar player!PTL!)

      Blessings Strato

      • hotraman Just Startin'
        hotraman
        16 posts since
        Nov 19, 2007
        Currently Being Moderated
        Mar 10, 2010 8:28 AM (in response to Stratotron)
        Re: Has anyone experienced this?

        'While we are asking the "has anyone experienced this?" question...

        After several months, I backed up my X3 and while doing so downloaded some upgrades, one being a Flash Memory. There was a note stating that the pedal may need tweaking (calibrating) afterwards. It may be my imagination but after downloading the flash memory it seems like my X3 is "brighter" globally. In the practice room it didn't seem too bad however, my fear is that this brightness will translate into brittle at rehearsal Thursday. Any thoughts group?'

         

        I read in another thread about the latest firmware upgrade. Yes, there is a slight EQ difference in amp/cab settings that resulted in a "brighter" tone. I went through the patches I use the most and rolled off a little of the mids & treble for my liking.

        Steve

      • tonebuff Just Startin'
        tonebuff
        102 posts since
        Dec 9, 2007
        Currently Being Moderated
        Mar 10, 2010 8:41 AM (in response to Stratotron)
        Re: Has anyone experienced this?

        I agree that this could be caused by things already mentioned here.  +1 on what you say Strato! 

        - I upgraded my x3L to the new firmware, did the pedal calibration, made some tweaks to some tones and the very next week at church it seemed a little hot and bright.  Our tech team asked if I could turn down the master volume because he was still getting a signal with "gain" all the way down on the board and had basically "lost control" of managing my signal.

        - I usually have my outputs (1 xlr ) set to control 1/4" outs so the board is getting the full signal.

        - I've never had this problem before, so we agreed to run my master at about 75%

        - What this did - I lost some signal coming back to my aviom setup to my in-ears

        - They were getting plenty in the house, but I had to compensate to hear in my avioms (this could be a whole other issue)

        - We have an awesome - praise god! tech team!

         

        Any thought here on some possible changes or what could be happening after the firmware upgrade?

         

        thanks - tonebuff

        • Stratotron Just Startin'
          Stratotron
          110 posts since
          Mar 13, 2007
          Currently Being Moderated
          Mar 11, 2010 8:07 AM (in response to tonebuff)
          Re: Has anyone experienced this?

          Back in the fray one more time!

           

          Atter reading up on the flash upgrade yesterday, I had some concerns. I have the luxury of a small Carvin PA in my music room so I set up the X3 with the XLR out to the system and the Live out ot my amp and what a huge and disturbing difference! I don't recall the XLRs being so drastcally different. My plan was to use a Strat this Sunday but it is like I almost can't pull enough brittle out of the system. I did change the output focus and highs, but that is only for the 1/4" sends which aren't the problem.

           

          1. Am I missing something or is there a way of eqing and focusing the XLRs like the 1/4" sends? ( I am going to reasearch that today.)

           

          The remedy for now is that I will use my trusty Tele Deluxe with humbuckers this Sunday, which actually sounds pretty nice brightened up a little. Another plan is to send to output from my amp on stage to the board, which is what I did in the past using the XT prior to the X3.

           

          Without being critical, does it seem odd to anyone that with the inherent problems with treble and brittleness associated with effects devices in general, that Line 6 would design an upgrade that would do this?  Maybe great for low volume recording or so. It seems like an ideal upgrade would be some softwear that follows the Flecther Munson compensation/curve when you crank up the output!

           

          It seems like I am getting a royalty for using "I", I apologize. ( this sentence alone was worth 9 cents)

           

          Blessings

           

          Strato.

          • hotraman Just Startin'
            hotraman
            16 posts since
            Nov 19, 2007
            Currently Being Moderated
            Mar 11, 2010 9:39 AM (in response to Stratotron)
            Re: Has anyone experienced this?

            Here's my experience with the X3L and multiple guitars: I am learning that its rare when one sound fits all.

            The firmware upgrade did change my tones, too ( added brightness or presence that wasn't noticable before)

            My Challenge: I use the AC 30 TB model alot, and I play with a variety of guitars: ( Taylor T5, Tele, Gibson 335 and Gretsch Black Falcon)

            I am discovering that I need to set a bank/row of tones that are custom eq for each guitar.

            Yes, we got some cool new effects, but I not sure if I like the added "brightness" to the overall tone.

            Am I the only one who is going through this?

            • Stratotron Just Startin'
              Stratotron
              110 posts since
              Mar 13, 2007
              Currently Being Moderated
              Mar 12, 2010 8:02 AM (in response to hotraman)
              Re: Has anyone experienced this?

              Back in again....

               

              I wanted to report in after; 1. the flash upgrade and 2. rehearsal last night.

               

              Upon arrival I spoke to our sound person and described the X3 flash uprade and what to possibly expect ( brighter tone and higher volume) and prior to starting she simply had me hammer away at my loudest setting. I will add that our sound person is very competent, understands guitar effects, direct feeds, and works mainly with our group, as we generally cycle 3 different groups in rotation. She padded it accordingly and minutes later we were off to work.

               

              I am not sure how to describe the difference from stage except to say that there was more clarity than before, helping to cut through without being overbearing. In other words I like the change. My plan was to play the Tele with humbuckers, but instead used an American Standard Strat that has a HUGE Warmoth neck on it that is a little thicker sounding than a Strat out of the box.

               

              I did go through the night before and pull a little of the treble and prescence out of the patches, checked the Mastervolume in the output section  assigning it to both the XLR and 1/4" outs, and warned the sound person if I ever changed my volume setting. Generally speaking, once I set my volume control on the face of the X3, I don't touch it again during the course of the set/service.

               

              All this to say that I like the upgrade and to add that whatever tweaking that I had to do was worth the effort. (Good on-ya Line 6!)

               

              Blessings

               

              Strato

  • dbaudrate Just Startin'
    dbaudrate
    6 posts since
    Mar 4, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    May 10, 2010 7:44 PM (in response to hotraman)
    Re: Has anyone experienced this?

    It's odd that distorted sound would be coming out the mains, but a clean sound through the Aviom.  It just doesn't sound right to me.  Did you have a clean sound on your X3L going to one channel and a distorted sound going to another? I just don't see any other way that you could feed the system a dirty sound and have it return a clean one through the Aviom.

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