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Up to Discussions in Variax Transplants
8012 Views 31 Replies Latest reply: Aug 6, 2010 10:26 PM by flatlander92 RSS
dereckn Just Startin'
dereckn
23 posts since
Aug 10, 2007
Currently Being Moderated

Mar 10, 2010 7:39 PM

Possible solution to simultaneous vax output and MIDI out (GK)

Hi all,

I am working on a project that would allow you to use your Variax as it should have been. I have read many threads regarding micro surgery and adding wires to the VAX electronics so you could use a GK type pickup system. Through my reading, It seems only one will work at a time and overall performance is not consistent. What I am working on will allow both signals to work at the same time. My design also has an advantage, no soldering or surgery (minus installation of a GK pickup module, Graphtech Hexpander to be exact) plug and play. You will even be able to use the existing LR bragg saddles.

Here is a link to the original thread.

I am also trying to get a feel for demand. If I get enough interest, I will go into a small production run.

Thanks

BTW I am attaching a photo of an early version. I am hoping to have all the details worked out within the next month or so. If I don't get the performance level I expect I will post the schematic in a later thread.

IMG_0286.JPG

 

 

http://line6.com/community/thread/22364?tstart=0

  • dpickwell19 Just Startin'
    dpickwell19
    11 posts since
    Jun 12, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 14, 2010 8:21 AM (in response to dereckn)
    Re: Possible solution to simultaneous vax output and MIDI out (GK)

    I would definately be interested, I have a Variax 500 which I fitted a  Fernades Sustainer, EMG active SA pickup and a GK-3 internal Midi pickup kit which works well for the covers band I'm in, however I fitted 2 EMG's in a Variax 700, but didn't want to fit a GK-3 kit in it, but to use the Ghost system without fitting a pickup would suit me, with better tracking. Does your board fit the 700? And what price would they be?

    • dereckn Just Startin'
      dereckn
      23 posts since
      Aug 10, 2007
      Currently Being Moderated
      Mar 14, 2010 12:20 PM (in response to dpickwell19)
      Re: Possible solution to simultaneous vax output and MIDI out (GK)

      Thanks for the reply. If you have space for a Ghost hexpander system in you 700, My board should fit with no problems. I currently don't have all of the connector from the Variax line. This is something I am trying to work on. I am looking for burnt circuit cards or pick up cable from the bridge to the electronics so I can make the appropriate adapter boards. As far as price goes, I am planning on a price between $120 to $130 USD. More to follow.

      Dereck

      • Mordraden Just Startin'
        Mordraden
        7 posts since
        Apr 30, 2007
        Currently Being Moderated
        Mar 16, 2010 12:26 AM (in response to dereckn)
        Re: Possible solution to simultaneous vax output and MIDI out (GK)

        Hey There!

        I have been researching and working on this very same problem. I am extremely interested in your solution. In my up comming franken guitar I will be isntalling Graphtech Hexpander + Acoustic PReamp and the Variax. I desperatley want to be able to use the variax and hexpander at the same time.

        Please Please Please keep me posted.

         

        CJFreeman

        • dereckn Just Startin'
          dereckn
          23 posts since
          Aug 10, 2007
          Currently Being Moderated
          Mar 16, 2010 6:34 AM (in response to Mordraden)
          Re: Possible solution to simultaneous vax output and MIDI out (GK)

          Thanks for the Reply. My solution should work for your application. A couple of things I need to address. One is that my circuit card (once installed) will make adjustment of the pot on the Acousti-Phonic board a little difficult. The second issue is that I have not intended to have the Variax audio output routable thru the GK 13 pin cable. It can still be done, however the overall concept I have chosen requires power from either the VDI cable interface or the XPS power supply (this is done to eliminate a potential ground loop). If you wanted to have the VAX output go through the GK cable, it would only require a couple of wires and the VAX electronic would run off of the on board batteries.

          Thanks

          Dereck

          • Mordraden Just Startin'
            Mordraden
            7 posts since
            Apr 30, 2007
            Currently Being Moderated
            Mar 16, 2010 8:51 AM (in response to dereckn)
            Re: Possible solution to simultaneous vax output and MIDI out (GK)

            For my setup I would not want the Variax signal going out the 13pin midi but I could see how some might. I use the Variax's VDI, it connects directly to my POD X3 Live and on stage Computer for live adjustments etc.... I do plan on using the Acousti-Phonics stereo 1/4 jack to run  a Y cable for both my mags and clean piezo signal. The POD X3 Live in all its glory (I truly love the thing) lets you use all its inputs in combination, So the Magnetic PU leg of the Y Cable will go into Guitar In, the piezo leg of the Y cable goes into the Aux In and the Variax plugs in through the VDI. With Gearbox its but a click of a mouse button to assign each Instrument-In a job, anyways I'm off topic. Back on topic, so your board is going to make the Acousti-Phonics Volume Pot unuseable? Its not a problem for me as using the POD X3 Live and on stage Computer I have several other levels of volume control. If i'm wrong and your speaking of somthing else please clerify. Keep up the good work!

             

            CJFreeman

            • dereckn Just Startin'
              dereckn
              23 posts since
              Aug 10, 2007
              Currently Being Moderated
              Mar 16, 2010 11:39 AM (in response to Mordraden)
              Re: Possible solution to simultaneous vax output and MIDI out (GK)

              The volume pot wont be unusable. It will just be very time consuming. The picture I have posted shows my board piggybacked onto the Hexpander. The hole that exists on the Hexpander is covered by my board. If I do a production board, I will try to allocate a hole to eliminate the short coming, but I cant make any promises. Component space is very limited.

              Thanks

  • dereckn Just Startin'
    dereckn
    23 posts since
    Aug 10, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 20, 2010 2:41 PM (in response to dereckn)
    Re: Possible solution to simultaneous vax output and MIDI out (GK)

    Hi all,

    I am looking for some information regarding the following models. Vax 300/600 VAX 700 Hardtail and Trem models. I need to know how the cables hook up from the bridge to the electronics. I don't wont to run into a problem where the signals could get reversed. If you live around Riverside CA let me know. I would greatly appreciate the chance to look at these models in person. Preferably people interested some tear down. I need photos and the ability to electrically verify signal paths.

    Thanks

    Dereck

  • Mordraden Just Startin'
    Mordraden
    7 posts since
    Apr 30, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 23, 2010 11:07 PM (in response to dereckn)
    Re: Possible solution to simultaneous vax output and MIDI out (GK)

    Derek,

     

    Sorry for the delay, it was a busy weekend. Following is a link to a photobucket album, please let me know if you need anything else.

     

    http://s586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/mordraden/Line%206%20Variax%20600/

     

    Sincerely,

    Cory

  • Mordraden Just Startin'
    Mordraden
    7 posts since
    Apr 30, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 26, 2010 7:39 AM (in response to dereckn)
    Re: Possible solution to simultaneous vax output and MIDI out (GK)

    Dereck,

    I have a gig tomorrow so I already put the vax back together but, I don't have anything goin on sunday so ill get you the dimensions then.

     

    Cory

  • veggieryan Just Startin'
    veggieryan
    4 posts since
    Mar 30, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 26, 2010 4:27 PM (in response to dereckn)
    Re: Possible solution to simultaneous vax output and MIDI out (GK)

    I am extremely interested in this solution.

     

    I am sick of the weight of the variax but love the tones.

     

    I have a super light 3.5 lbs carbon fiber acoustic cutaway from http://www.blackbirdguitar.com/superom.html

     

    It has RMC Gold piezo hex pickups.

     

    I basically want to route the 6 lines from the pickups from a fanout box http://www.rmcpickup.com/fanoutbox.html into the variax sitting on a stand next to me.  I am thinking the fanout box will ensure I still have a clean signal path for my roland vg-99 or axon ax-50 that will be unaffected by any crazy mods I attempt on the variax end...

     

    Then I can play the light weight super om and get the variax sounds next to me.

     

    Would your solution apply to my situation or do I even need it?  My other thought is just to bypass the pickups on the variax all together... in which case I would just solder from the fanout box to the variax board inputs? Would that work?

     

    Im not really interested in playing the variax on its own again... too heavy for me to enjoy for long periods.. though I don't mind lugging it around if I can sit it on a stand, plug into it and get my tones.

     

    I also hope that this solution will carry over to the new james tyler variax as I will be upgrading when it comes out and dont mind modding it as well.

     

    Thanks again.

    Ryan.

    • amx05462 Power User
      amx05462
      3,480 posts since
      Sep 1, 2008
      Currently Being Moderated
      Apr 26, 2010 7:55 PM (in response to veggieryan)
      Re: Possible solution to simultaneous vax output and MIDI out (GK)

      http://www.rackvax.com/

       

       

      check  this page

    • dereckn Just Startin'
      dereckn
      23 posts since
      Aug 10, 2007
      Currently Being Moderated
      Apr 26, 2010 10:35 PM (in response to veggieryan)
      Re: Possible solution to simultaneous vax output and MIDI out (GK)

      Thanks for the reply. Could you walk through your entire setup. I am a little confused on your requirements. From what you are saying is that you only need the variax electronics and not the variax itself. I would assume you are talking about wiring a connector on your VAX so that the RMC fanout box can hook up to the VAX and a VG 99. If this is the case, my circuit would not be required. Also I think a Rackvax may be a good solution for your application. This way you don't have to do any soldering or worry about any impedance issues.

      Thanks

      Dereck

      • veggieryan Just Startin'
        veggieryan
        4 posts since
        Mar 30, 2007
        Currently Being Moderated
        Apr 27, 2010 5:54 PM (in response to dereckn)
        Re: Possible solution to simultaneous vax output and MIDI out (GK)

        Thanks,

        Basically I want to bypass the pickups on the variax and use the rmc pickups on my other guitar instead.

         

        The RMC hex pickup has a 6 conductor cable that I would run to the variax, and either disconnect the built in pickups entirely, have a quick disconnect harness to swap back and forth or have a selector switch that I can use to switch between internal/external pickups on the variax...

         

        Are you saying the RMC pickups won't match the built in lr baggs variax pickups impedance?

         

        I like this solution as I could apply it freely to my variax 500, variax 700 acoustic, and upcoming james tyler variax without being locked into one platform as I would with the rackvax.

         

        If it works I could even remove all the electronics from my variaxes, mount them in a rackmount case and have my own simpler rackvax...

        • dereckn Just Startin'
          dereckn
          23 posts since
          Aug 10, 2007
          Currently Being Moderated
          Apr 28, 2010 12:03 AM (in response to veggieryan)
          Re: Possible solution to simultaneous vax output and MIDI out (GK)

          I am not real familiar with the RMC pickups. However if they are piezo in nature its likely to work with the vax electronics. Hard to tell how well though. I would recommend some kind of mock up in which you can try one string from your RMC pickup(s) to the variax. My only advice is that you should be comfortable soldering very small solder joints. Along with the circuit I am designing, I am also planning on making adaptor boards for those who just want to add ghost pickups to there VAX and not add any other circuits. This solution would also be much lower risk, as it will not require any soldering.

          Thanks

          Dereck

          • veggieryan Just Startin'
            veggieryan
            4 posts since
            Mar 30, 2007
            Currently Being Moderated
            Apr 28, 2010 12:50 AM (in response to dereckn)
            Re: Possible solution to simultaneous vax output and MIDI out (GK)

            ok cool.

              count me in for one of those boards.  paypal ready.

              looking at the photos of the vax 300/600 boards it looks like it will be MUCH easier to tap into those boards via sodering as the ribbon cable on my 500 and 700 looks very difficult to work with.

              looks like your board for alternate hex pickups will be the way to go.

              please pm me for $$$

            • dereckn Just Startin'
              dereckn
              23 posts since
              Aug 10, 2007
              Currently Being Moderated
              May 1, 2010 5:00 PM (in response to veggieryan)
              Re: Possible solution to simultaneous vax output and MIDI out (GK)

              Hi all,

              I have finally tested my circuit in the guitar. Unfortunately it doesn't perform very well. So at this time there is no solution from simultaneous Variax and GK output.

              It seems for now that the only solution is a GK 3 attached to your guitar. I have also tested just the Ghost saddles interfacing directly to the VAX mainboard. It does work, however I hear many artifacts in the output when any kind of alternate tuning is used. I would like to hear from anyone that has used ghost saddles with there VAX. I do have a design ready to go to make ghost saddle installation a breeze, but until I hear from some of you regarding your experience with ghost saddles, I will not produce these boards. Hope to get any suggestions or input from all of you.

              Thanks

              Dereck

              • dereckn Just Startin'
                dereckn
                23 posts since
                Aug 10, 2007
                Currently Being Moderated
                May 4, 2010 9:15 PM (in response to dereckn)
                Re: Possible solution to simultaneous vax output and MIDI out (GK)

                Hi all,

                I have come across some additional information. I will be pursuing the info very aggressively. I am not down for the count just yet. It may take a couple of months to come up with a feasible solution based on the new information. I will keep everyone informed. Also I have been able to determine that the ghost saddles are compatible with the vax but not directly. An interface will be necessary to balance the hotter output of the ghost as well as frequency response issues.

                Thanks

                Dereck

                • dereckn Just Startin'
                  dereckn
                  23 posts since
                  Aug 10, 2007
                  Currently Being Moderated
                  Jun 14, 2010 10:39 PM (in response to dereckn)
                  Re: Possible solution to simultaneous vax output and MIDI out (GK)

                  Hi all,

                  I have an update. It is possible for what I am doing to work properly. However I am going to shoot for any production capability. I am about a month away from having a complete system in place. I don't feel that there will be much of a market, so the investment on my end would be in vain. I have also come across some installation issues that end users would have. For VAX 500 and 700 owners, the work wouldn't be horribly difficult but would require some routing of the body. VAX 300 and 600 owner would have a very difficult time installing and dealing with some body routing issues that not everyone will have either the tools or the experience necessary to complete. As the JTV line comes out, I will look at what is under the hood of the new guitars to see if a system could be installed. I don't now how many people will be willing to route out there new guitars considering the cost of purchase. If for some reason I come across a simple solution for install on the 300 and 600, I may reconsider production. However the price will probably be a bit more expensive. For example you would need to purchase a Graphtech Hexpander system (about $270) then the cost of my system which will be about $150. This is without purchasing new saddles which would not be necessary. So far as I have been doing testing the graphtech saddles do have a hotter output and better harmonic content. With all of this said a GK3 costs $200. If you use a Graphtech system you will get better tracking, the cost may be worth it for some. Probably the best solution right now is to buy a RackVax. This way any GK equipped guitar can be a Variax. Hope this helps some of you. Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated.

                  Dereck

                  • flatlander92 Just Startin'
                    flatlander92
                    5 posts since
                    Nov 22, 2006
                    Currently Being Moderated
                    Aug 6, 2010 10:26 PM (in response to dereckn)
                    Re: Possible solution to simultaneous vax output and MIDI out (GK)

                    i'm planning a transplant in the very near future including the vax, graphtech floyd rose and hexpander board plus a sustainiac.  i already have the graphtech gear in my posession.  i have absolutely no problem routing as much of the body out as necessary if a smooth system to use the synth and vax at the same time is possible.

                     

                    the plan is to use a vax 300 as the donor.  i also have a 500.  i figured if i was going to screw one up it should be the cheaper 300.

                     

                    have you made any headway with the solution?  are you making any boards?

                     

                    i would love to hear more about what you're doing and if it would work in my plans.

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