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2261 Views 10 Replies Latest reply: Jun 3, 2010 3:22 PM by evanteatum RSS
garrisongreen Just Startin' 1 posts since
Oct 8, 2007
Currently Being Moderated

Mar 16, 2010 11:54 AM

Vocal Harmonies - we need them now!

I love my Line 6 Pod X3 and all the earlier versions I've had over the years.  Won't leave home without it.  But for vocal harmonies, I have to go elsewhere.

 

Lately, I've been using a TC Helicon Harmony G pedal to provide vocal harmonies for my solo gigs.  It works reasonably well, but with some shortcomings.  I'd love to see Line 6 address this market.  In fact, I believe they could use the existing Pod X3 and X3 Live hardware platforms to provide a vocal harmony function with just some added software.

 

The biggest limitation to the existing vocal hamony pedals on the market is the inability to swell the harmonies in a out using a volume pedal.  With the exception of buying the $799 TC Helicon Voicelive 2 pedal and adding an expression pedal for another $100 or so, all other hamony pedals provide simple pushbuttons for turning harmoies on and off during a performance.  These pushbuttons can be hard to find while singing and playing guitar and don't allow for different volume levels of harmony - it's either on or off.  Controlling the harmonies with a volume/expression pedal is both easier and more versatile.

 

I presenty run the hamony output of my TC Helicon Harmony G pedal into my Pod X3 and control the volume using the expression pedal on my floorboard.  This work well enough, but is a bit overcomplicated.  If the Line 6 could incorporate the functionality of the Harmony G pedal into the X3, they would have a dynamite product that would provide a versatile solution for singer/guitarists.  We could have vocal harmonies and guitar processing all in one package.  And we would have the option of expression pedal control, a terrific feature missing from all but the highest price competitive vocal pedal (the Voicelive 2 mentioned above).

 

How about it Line 6?  This would be a great new market segment for the X3 family.  And I'm sure Line 6 could do a great job with this.

  • BigChas52 Expert Line 6 User 2,143 posts since
    Mar 12, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 16, 2010 12:21 PM (in response to garrisongreen)
    Re: Vocal Harmonies - we need them now!

    Don't expect to see a sophisticated effect like vocal harmonies on the X3.  It simply does not have the horsepower to pull it off.

     

    The TC pedal is expensive for a reason.  It takes a lot of processing power, and probably a fair amount of memory to do the job with adequate results.

    • brue58ski Just Startin' 222 posts since
      Jan 24, 2007
      Currently Being Moderated
      Mar 16, 2010 3:43 PM (in response to BigChas52)
      Re: Vocal Harmonies - we need them now!

      But can't we get some kind of intelligent harmonizer.  Afterall the KORG PX3, a pack of cigarettes sized box with distortion, FX (including the intelligent harmonizer) delay, reverb, amp sim, cab sim, crappy drum machine and crappy bass sim to jam along with.  All from the year 2000!!!!  The intelligent harmonizer wasn't perfect but it tracked very well so I have a hard time believing Line 6 can't some up with something comperable with this gizmo from around a decade ago.  C'mon man.  PLEEEEEAAASE.

      • BigChas52 Expert Line 6 User 2,143 posts since
        Mar 12, 2007
        Currently Being Moderated
        Mar 16, 2010 4:01 PM (in response to brue58ski)
        Re: Vocal Harmonies - we need them now!

        This has already been addressed.  The X3 simply doesn't have enough processor oomph to run an intelligent harmonizer alongside of everything else it does.

         

        I would definitely make a suggestion to Line 6 via a feature request to add it to their next gen POD, but you're really wasting your time and effort asking for this on X3.  You're not going to see it.

         

        http://line6.com/company/contact/productfeedback/?topic_id=3

        • chrisblackwell Just Startin' 260 posts since
          Apr 5, 2008
          Currently Being Moderated
          Mar 16, 2010 9:10 PM (in response to BigChas52)
          Re: Vocal Harmonies - we need them now!

          ya i would have to say i disagree...  like the above poster mentioned, there are plenty of multi-fx units from the late 90's/early 2000's that had intelligent harmonies...  in fact, i run my old digitech RP2000 that i bought in 2000 in my fx loop so that i can have guitar and vocal harmonies...  it's relatively old technology, and i can't imagine that it would eat up processing power like amp or effect models, and i can't imagine that intelligent harmonies would be the thing to "break the camels back" as far as processing power goes...  i admit that i don't have the technical knowledge to be able to say for sure that the X3 should or shouldn't have the processing power to do it, but again, considering it's 10-15 year old technology (at least), it just doesn't make sense that it's so hard on processing power...  is that the same reason there is no standard pitch shifter?  are you telling me pitch shifters are really processor-intensive effects?  that doesn't make any sense to me...

           

          whatever, like i said, i put my RP2000 in the fx loop and it works fine...  the drawback is that because i have to use my rp2000 in the loop for these rather basic effects, i don't have the loop available for, say, the 4-cable method...  i don't want to have to go through the preamp and tone-stack of an amplifier just to add a 3rd to my voice...

          • tommasi Iknowathingortwo 627 posts since
            Sep 3, 2007
            Currently Being Moderated
            Mar 17, 2010 2:38 AM (in response to chrisblackwell)
            Re: Vocal Harmonies - we need them now!

            The answer might be that the amp simulation is so processor-intensive that there's simply not enough spare room for an IH. Regardless of whatever other MFX do, they do not have the same amp modeling as L6's. The question however is another one. Since when you're not using dual tones half of the processing power is idle, it could be useful if one could use that for such processor-hungry effects. This has been mentioned several times (1 "super-chain" instead of 2), and it surprises me that L6 would think the dual capability would get so much usage as to justify twice the processing power without the ability of using it all up by a single tone. the fact that nothing of the sort came out so far, though, makes me thing that that's the way it is. I am fairly confident that an unused tone 2 processing stack would be more than adequate to implement an IH (or any other effect I might have more use for ). there might be architectural design limitations in play, though.

        • brue58ski Just Startin' 222 posts since
          Jan 24, 2007
          Currently Being Moderated
          Mar 19, 2010 5:15 PM (in response to BigChas52)
          Re: Vocal Harmonies - we need them now!

          I'm pretty sure that when that was adressed it was BEFORE this big update.  I don't believe there isn't enough ooomph because of what has just been given in the update   Take the update back and give me an intelligent harmonizer.  Or dump an amp.  Anyone really use the Fender Mini amp sime more than once if at all?

          • brue58ski Just Startin' 222 posts since
            Jan 24, 2007
            Currently Being Moderated
            Mar 19, 2010 6:02 PM (in response to brue58ski)
            Re: Vocal Harmonies - we need them now!

            Well lookee here and scroll down to the third subject

             

            http://line6.com/spidervalvemkii/effects.html#infusion

             

            It's being done somewhere.  Are X3 and Spider that much different?

          • BigChas52 Expert Line 6 User 2,143 posts since
            Mar 12, 2007
            Currently Being Moderated
            Mar 20, 2010 3:22 PM (in response to brue58ski)
            Re: Vocal Harmonies - we need them now!

            brue58ski wrote:

             

            I'm pretty sure that when that was adressed it was BEFORE this big update.  I don't believe there isn't enough ooomph because of what has just been given in the update   Take the update back and give me an intelligent harmonizer.  Or dump an amp.  Anyone really use the Fender Mini amp sime more than once if at all?

            It really has nothing to do with how many amps and effects are available, it has to do with how many processes can run concurrently in the X3 with the processing power and available ram memory.  All of the extra amps and effects are stored in rom memory untill called.

             

            Think of your computer.  You can have dozens, even hundreds of apps installed on the hard drive, but if you try to run too many at once you'll have problems; especially the processor/memory intensive ones.  Let's suppose for a moment that there is enough processor and ram to run an IH on the X3.  You might be able to do that, but not run any other effects at the same time.  There would be a lot of complaints about that one.

            • brue58ski Just Startin' 222 posts since
              Jan 24, 2007
              Currently Being Moderated
              Mar 23, 2010 5:50 AM (in response to BigChas52)
              Re: Vocal Harmonies - we need them now!

              Well despite being dumber than a block of wood, I do understand that.  One of the things that had been mentioned before by someone awhile ago, was that there was no room to store (not use) anymore effects and that was what I was refering to although I guess not clearly enough.  As far as having enough ram, I know what you're talking about as well and I also know that there was alot less ram available in the boxes I had that would do this kind of thing 10 years ago.  And now that it is in the Spider which seems to be overall a simpler device, I do raise the question, are they so disimilar in their use of ram that it can't be done?  And it is a question.  Not a statement of fact.

              • evanteatum Just Startin' 2 posts since
                Feb 2, 2008
                Currently Being Moderated
                Jun 3, 2010 3:22 PM (in response to brue58ski)
                Re: Vocal Harmonies - we need them now!

                Heres what I did - FYI - and it works well

                The HArmony G has stereo out outs- One Dry out and one wet output

                I run the dry to a channel on the board - period.

                the other channel Goes thru a volume pedal so I can swell the harmony vox signal with expression.

                THe trick is use a line level transformer in line to step the Signal down to line level when it goes into the pedal- then use another line transformer to step the signal back up to mic level output and then into the board.

                Make sure you set the Harmony g to stereo outs in this set up -

                You simply ride the pedal during the vocals to add harmony - a little or a lot.

                I know Im a frigin genius ! thanks

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