Mar 19, 2010 6:07 AM
Using an external compressor / limiter and the FX loops of the POD and your amp.
Forgive me, I posted this in the wrong section, twice! So, third times a charm, I will try to clean up and delete my old post, since there were no comments (hence me realizing, it's in the wrong place..)
I have messed around with a lot of configurations since I got my X3L a couple of years ago, and recently stumbled into the 4-cable method, that has been working pretty well for me so far, with my amp.
Well, that led me to a variation in the 4CM, by plugging the guitar into my amps front input, then putting the POD into the amps FX loop, and a Keeley 4-knob compressor into the FX-loop of the POD. This does wonderful things for the sound in terms of controlling level spikes, packaging up the tone nicely, and a sweet volume containment of all the wah models. Put them through an analog limiter/compressor, and they sound way better!!
Ok, so my dual FX-loop, with an analog compressor rig:
1. plug 1st cable (into your guitar) into your amps front input
2. plug 2nd cable from amps FX-send (out)* to POD guitar in. (You might need to set the input pad "on" depending)
3. plug 3rd cable from POD 1/4" out to amps FX-return (in)*
4. plug 4th cable from POD FX-send(out) to outboard compressor input
5. plug 5th cable from POD FX-return(in) to outboard compressor output
* note: I think on some amps (like the Fender hot rod series) these fx loop in/out jacks are labeled "preamp out" and "poweramp in"
**note: make sure if your amp has an FX-loop dial, to turn it all the way to 100% mix.
Ok, so programming, here's the intent I go for with tone 1:
- stomp set up as a classic distortion or tube screamer, or tube overdrive
- "comp" switch pedal set to turn amp model on/off
- mod set to the new "script phaser" which has tap tempo, or barberpole phaser in stereo
- amp model set to something like "cali crunch" or "class a 30", or whatever you want.
--then, be sure on the amp page to turn off the cabinet. Scroll to the end of the guitar cabs to the selection "no cabinet", which also turns off the mic
--- this amp model is used as an extra stomp pedal, and since amp models have nice eq controls, think of it like a totally expanded distortion pedal, with low/mid/high and presence controls on most every amp model. Since you are not using cab or mic models, this is subjective to what sounds good coming out of your amplifier at your place!
-Compression / Limiter: Start with setting the outboard compression amount less than 12 o'clock, and set the master volume out to between 2/3 and 3/4 up. On the POD, set the FX-loop mix to 100%, and set the return to +4, or +8, or +12db boost, depending on how you set the external compressor. My Keeley has 4 knobs : compression, master volume, attack speed, and input trim. Typically set the attack and input trim to the same as the Keeley 2 knob, which is fastest attack time, no input gain reduction. Sometime I ease up on the trim (input gain) to get more clarity, the higher this knob is set, the faster the pedal squashes signal. As I turn the trim down, it is cutting input signal, adding headroom, and reducing the need for compression until higher levels, regardless of the master output setting. In actual sonic audio terms, it makes the treble increase since the treble freqs are the first to spike from the POD, they are the first to get cut down by the Keeley, softening the tone. Rolling this trim back can actually serve to dial in the right amount of bite to softness ratio. More trim gain reduction, more treble increases. Less input gain reduction, more treble gets squashed and softened!
Placing that outboard comp in the POD's fx loop really does sweet wonders for amp models overdrive and stomp pedals too. You can now use all master volumes as a type of tone control, rather than really messing with your output volume. The Keeley is kind of expensive, so this can totally work with an 80 dollar boss cs-3, or mxr dyna/super comp or whatever you can get your hands on.
The reason I say you can use the amp models drive and master volume, plus the stomp models drive and gain setting as "tone" control rather than volume control, is because the outboard comp (keeley, etc) is acting as limiter and also a compressor, so the sounds are all louder than the keeley is allowing to come out, causing a squashing of everything. The more you turn up the volume and drive and gain, the more it squashes! It actually can create some wild effects,.
Regarding "pre" and "post" settings on the POD: these now matter! If you have not used the FX loop previously, these setting didn't play as much of a role in drastically shaping your sound. You can set several of the FX on the POD pre or post. In particular, I like to use the weird analog or modulation based delays sometime, but they can also do a weird runaway sound effect that can cause some strange volume spikes. Same for alot of the more fun mods, like phaser, flanger, etc. If you experience unwanted volume spikes / issues with these effects, they can be set to "pre", which is before the effects loop, IE, before the outboard compressor (keeley). This forces these effects into the level control of the analog comp, which can be nice. Then, digital delay and stereo delays sound great as "post", same for chorus and reverb
Mind, you, this is all "tone 1" only. No amp modelling, no mic modelling yet.
Then, to also send XLR with amp and mic modelling, you could then do something like,
- attach the other 1/4" out from the POD to the AUX input on the POD,
- set tone 2 as AUX in,
- mute tone 1 to the XLR outs and
- mute tone 2 to the 1/4" outs.
- Set tone 2 with noise gate, POD's compression
**(no FX-loop, can only be used mono on one tone or the other), and then also
- use a clean amp model with cab and mic emulation.
- Give it some room in the amp setting.
- Maybe use the new "dimension" mod for a nice subtle chorus like stereo effect, and
- a small amout of a big reverb (less than 10%) of something like 'cavernous'.
The main thing I REALLY like about this rig, is the outboard (keeley) compressor in the POD's effect loop. It makes the wah models sound good. All of them. No more noisy weird volume boost. Play with the master volume on the outboard comp, play with the amp vs. line level send on the POD, and get those right, and the outboard comp acts as a nice analog smoother, limiter, which holds back the weird wah volume peaks, plus, since the POD is in the FX loop of the amp, the noise gate kills any extra amp noise. Even kills a 60 cycle hum I get from the clean channel of my crappy solid-state Marshall. I can't imagine how good it sounds on a nice tube amp!:
I have been working more with this idea, to expand on the jumper cable to AUX input, to tone 2, with amp-cab-mic modelling. Having pretty good luck plugging the guitar into amp, then placing the POD into the FX loop of the amp, and the Keeley comp into the FX loop of the POD.
I have a few patches I've been tweaking, using four different amp models (amp only, no cab or mic sims) and some fx into my 1x12 combo. Liking the new script phaser, and the dimension chorus. Also really liking the dynamic delay, which holds down the level of the delays while you are playing then lets them ring when you stop playing. Does nice things when you hold notes and let them fade out, too.
So, I did place a 1/4" jumper cable, sending the second mono POD 1/4" output to the POD's AUX input 1/4", and assigning that input to tone 2. Set 1/4" outs to studio direct tone 1 only, and set XLR to studio direct tone 2 only. Tone 2 runs the FX and amp model of tone 1 plus the tube preamp of the Marshall combo, and the Keeley compression of all that, with delays and reverb post Keeley > into the Line 6 Super Clean amp model, with the 2x12 class-A 30 cab, using the 57 off-axis mix. A touch of room, a little (10% to 15%) of the cavernous reverb, and the dimension chorus set to around 50% mix. A red comp with around 10% sustain and around 80% to 90% master volume. Noise gate with no decay and -60 threshold.
The four amp models I used in the tone 1 of each patch are the Class A 30, Boutique, Cali Crunch, and Angel P-Ball.
I have to tweak each to sound like a slight overdriving amp. For instance, the boutique drive and master volume almost all the way up, where as the Angel P ball has the gain all the way down and the master around 50 to 60%. The others hover between, to match approx volume output from patch to patch. The stomp in each is the tube overdrive stomp, with around 60% of drive and gain, and adjust treble and bass according to each amp models particular tones.
It's getting quite close - I am pretty happy with the basic sounds through my crappy Marshall vs65r 1x12 combo, so looking forward to plugging same setup into the deville 4x10.. Anyhow, also muted the amps speaker (place headphone plug into headphone jack on amp, mutes speaker) and plugged the XLR outputs into a small mixer, and sent that stereo to a set of small computer desk speakers, just to get a really basic idea.
Overall, the sonics and tonal fingerprints of each amp model comes through quite well, having disabled the cabs and mic in tone 1, and just using them for final mastering on tone 2. My thinking here, is at any given gig, different volumes are required. This allows you to run the same patches for both amp output and XLR / PA output, with the amps volume operating independant from the XLR volumes. In addition, if the sound crew mics your amp, that gives you a nice full guitar sound, and the XLR direct signal with amp modelling can be routed into stage monitors or in-ear monitors, with a decent mic'd amp sound - without having to run actual mic signals to stage monitors. Or, to reinforce the stage monitors, and or reinforce the main mix. Since the XLRs are in stereo, can use some of the stereo delay and stereo dimension and chorus effects to nicely vibe out the sound to the house mix.
Again, the keeley or other type of limiter / preamp / compressor sits in the fx loop out of the POD, and comes before the front input of the real amplifier. This places the limiter / compression analog "warmth" after the PODs stomp and amp models as well as wahs - all of which can cause crazy level spikes when turned on or off. Enough compression, and this level spike is mitigated with very little re programming of the PODs levels. Adjust eq of amp and master pod eq for taste, and set input pad and line / amp accordingly.
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