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3222 Views 14 Replies Latest reply: Jul 13, 2010 4:32 PM by spaceatl RSS
cgtrox Expert Line 6 User 1,638 posts since
Jan 25, 2007
Currently Being Moderated

Mar 10, 2010 2:48 PM

Tube selection...

I found a couple of good websites that help with this decision.....

 

http://thetubestore.com/accessories.html

 

http://www.torresengineering.com/tubtubtub.html

 

http://www.eurotubes.com/euro-e.htm

 

cgtrox

  • sofnwhat Just Startin' 687 posts since
    Jan 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 11, 2010 5:47 AM (in response to cgtrox)
    Re: Tube selection...

    Cool, I wanted to have a resource on here for tubes. I'm gonna wait for my power tubes to go before I replace them, but I've been researching them alot lately. I saved the Torres site from when you posted a while about what you want to use for your preamp tubes. Funny thing is I was on their site yesterday researching, great stuff at what seems to be very reasonable prices. Alot of good info on there too. I'm thinking when it's time, I'm only going to put only the 2 outer tubes in and make my HD100 a 50 watt head. I'm also going to have it primed for Space's test point and bias mod and have a tech to the heavy lifting for me. There are several preamp tubes on that site that I want to try too.

    • brianvalve12 Just Startin' 93 posts since
      Mar 28, 2009
      Currently Being Moderated
      May 5, 2010 5:08 PM (in response to sofnwhat)
      Re: Tube selection...

      Eurotubes IMO is the best of the 3. They really push the JJ's but theres nothing wrong with that. They also have a special tube "cocktail" for the SV mk1 (with SVpre of course) I am running all JJ's in my mk1. I've had several different brands and I've settled on JJ's. The people at Eurotubes are very cool and eager to help. Not to mention the fact that every time I have called them a real live person answers the phone not a machine!

      • sofnwhat Just Startin' 687 posts since
        Jan 25, 2007
        Currently Being Moderated
        May 6, 2010 4:42 AM (in response to brianvalve12)
        Re: Tube selection...

        I had JJ ECC83's in all three spots. I liked the way it sounded until the V1 went microphonic. Now I have Fender 12AX7AW's in the V1 and V2, and the JJ in the SVpre. I'm digging this too. The fenders seem to add alittle more headroom and sparkle. I'm planning on putting a Fender in the SVpre to see how it sounds, but haven't gotten around to it.

  • pikeral Just Startin' 126 posts since
    Feb 5, 2009
    Currently Being Moderated
    May 24, 2010 12:14 PM (in response to cgtrox)
    Re: Tube selection...

    Hey guy's, i had a jj 6l6gc crap out on me so i ordered another set. I also ordered a jj ECC803. What spot do you guy's think it would be most effective in? The V1, V2 or the SVpre? I currently have jj ECC83s in all location's.

    • mtrash14 Iknowathingortwo 539 posts since
      Feb 18, 2009
      Currently Being Moderated
      May 24, 2010 6:05 PM (in response to pikeral)
      Re: Tube selection...

      I like the 803 in V1, but I've got V1 modded for gain (hotter than my modded SVPre in fact).  In a stock amp with the SVPre installed the SVPre is the hottest gain setup so the 803 should shine there the most.  It has a very nice high gain tone IMO.

       

      A stock setup V1 slot is not getting any gain so an 83s should do good there.  An 803 in a stock setup V1 would be a waste of talent.    V2 is the PI.  There you want a quiet tube.  A balanced tube is fine but most importantly is a quiet tube.  Your very best 83s is good there.  Its going to coast anyway but any noise there is going to really show up in the power tubes big time.  Not a good thing.

       

      I love a good 803s really stressed out running high gain.  It seems to like it there too, but it might not last real long.  Mine only lasted about a year but I was stressing it out all I could - all the time.  You can stress an 83s too but it will get muddy and loose quicker than an 803.  An 803 can take more and still sound strong IMO.  I like them in the gain slot cranked up.  Even not cranked they beat an 83s IMO, if you can get a quiet one.  With gain there is noise so little noisy 803 is ok but noise in low gain is not cool.

       

      Good luck man

      Later

      M^T

    • sofnwhat Just Startin' 687 posts since
      Jan 25, 2007
      Currently Being Moderated
      May 25, 2010 3:48 AM (in response to pikeral)
      Re: Tube selection...

      I haven't tried the 803's. I'd try it in all three places and use your ears. Swapping the the V1 and V2 spots are a snap, only the SVpre will require some time. Let's us know what you end up doing and what the results are.

  • pikeral Just Startin' 126 posts since
    Feb 5, 2009
    Currently Being Moderated
    May 25, 2010 3:48 PM (in response to cgtrox)
    Re: Tube selection...

    Look's like i will give it a try in the SVpre. Unfortunately i have to wait about two weeks for my order to arrive. I ordered a green and a red jewel as well. The green with blue led should be aqua marine, not sure about that one. The red with blue led should be purple, could be cool. Gotta give them both a try. Oh yeah, Trash my mustard caps are in the mail . Can't wait for those. I'll post some picture's of the different colour jewel's and the cap mod when i'm done. Just gotta tap my toes for a couple weeks. Thank's for your input guys. Cheer's

  • pikeral Just Startin' 126 posts since
    Feb 5, 2009
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 11, 2010 11:44 AM (in response to cgtrox)
    Re: Tube selection...

    Hey guys. I know tone is subjective and everyone has there preferences. I just wanted to say i am done with JJ 6L6GC for good. The first set i bought sounded pretty good, but they had an extremely short life and they were biased at spec...35mv. I picked up a new set and they suck balls. Really muddy sounding. Still punchy but lacking tightness. Maybe it's the mustard cap mod or maybe not. I tried going up to 50mv without improvement and went down to 40mv with some nicer sonics. These valves are dead quiet, no microphonics or cracks. Did the pencil test and no sound through the speakers. So, after some playing around, tweaking and getting frustrated i replaced the jj's with a pair of Mesa 5881STR. I had these in my amp a while back and they sounded nice but i didn't give them much of a chance. I biased at 41mv and cranked the master all the way and turned down the channel volume down. Wow do they sound nice. Solid tone, more of a balanced kind of tone as far as bass, mid and high's go. Well worth the $40. I highly recommend giving these valves a shot. I know there probably just Sovtek and that scares people away but don't be frightened...lol. As far as the JJ's go i love the tone from the 803 in the SVpre and the 83s in V1 and V2 have no issue's. Just my 2¢. Cheer's and good luck on your hunt for the right valves for your ears.

    • mtrash14 Iknowathingortwo 539 posts since
      Feb 18, 2009
      Currently Being Moderated
      Jul 13, 2010 2:51 PM (in response to pikeral)
      Re: Tube selection...

      I don't think there is any way the cap mod could make the power tubes sound muddy, so you can probably rule that out.  lol.  IMO the original little square looking caps that came in my SV were very restrictive to the signal, not to mention that I can't imagine they were allowing the full signal through them without crimping something out - somewhere.  I can't imagine any amp builder in the world that would choose those original square caps to put into any kind of guitar amp - can you?   So based on that idea I can't see how they are a benefit by being in there.  The SOZO's on the other hand are being used by quality - experienced custom amp builders all around the world and are also considered by most to be indeed top quality, so they must be better.  The one way to find out is to put them on a scope and see first hand what freqs are passing and which are being blocked/restricted.  The amount of blocking/restricting is what is being heard when one tried the SOZO cap mod.  It does open up the amp and opens up the tone, but thats about all it does.  Nothing should happen to the power tubes except they might get a fuller more quality signal to amplify, which IMO should be easier overall.  If those stock caps "leaks" as much DC as I imagine then the SOZO mod would actually help the power tubes to function better without being injected with a bunch of DC component.

       

      When a tube amplifies the signal it comes out of the tube into the high voltage DC current on the plates.  In a 12ax7 that is pins 1 and 6.  There we attach what is called a coupling cap (our SOZO mod).  This junction is similar to a "Y" connection.  The high voltage DC current, about 120 volts in a stock 112, is on one side of the "Y" and the coupling cap is on the other side, with the tube's plates at the bottom of the "Y".  The signal comes into the tube at pins 2 and 7 (the grids).  The amplification inside the tube makes the high voltage DC current on the plates fluctuate.  This fluctuation is then within the DC voltage.  The coupling cap only allows the AC component (the fluctuations in this case) to pass through while blocking the DC current.  A better cap allows a wider AC component through while effectively blocking all the DC electricity out.  The results of this is that the signal (the AC part) passes though the cap to the next gain stage inside the amp.  If a coupling cap allows any of the DC electricity through it then the next gain stage will show signs of damage/noise/etc/etc, which is not good in any way.  A poor quality cap cripples the AC by being restrictive to all/part/some/etc of the signal which in turn modifies it into sounding like something else.  Amp voicing is done by changing caps which in turn is somewhat changes the tone of the signal or spectrum of the signal which is allowed to pass through.  If you install the SOZO mod and find that the amp now sounds differently then that difference is only the actual difference in the quality/throughput/spectrum/etc of that cap, not to mention any DC component which might now be blocked.  A poor quality cap might only allow one part of the signal (freqs) to pass unrestrictive while restricting all the other parts of the signal to some varying degree, for the most part uncontrollable and somewhat unpredictable.  Putting a cap on a scope with a sweeping frequency would show its ability/quality/etc.  A high quality cap should pass the original signal unmodified to the next gain stage, within its designed range and capacity, everytime,  but I don't think there is such a thing as a perfect cap.  I have no doubt my SOZO's are much better than those little square shrimp size crapo caps that came in my SV ever could be.  IMO the SOZOs should make my power tubes sound better, fuller,  and last much longer then before, not sound worse, muddy,  and burn out sooner.  There hast to be something else wrong here.  lol

       

      Hope this helps.

       

      Good luck

      M^T

      • pikeral Just Startin' 126 posts since
        Feb 5, 2009
        Currently Being Moderated
        Jul 13, 2010 3:11 PM (in response to mtrash14)
        Re: Tube selection...

        Well it's definitly not the cap mod. I had the amp apart on the weekend and every mod i have done i double checked. It has to be the power tubes themselves. I have some other matched set's, Tung-Sol 6l6GC STR and Mesa 6l6GC and they sound good but the Mesa 5881's sound the best to my ears. Gotta be the JJ's.

        • mtrash14 Iknowathingortwo 539 posts since
          Feb 18, 2009
          Currently Being Moderated
          Jul 13, 2010 4:27 PM (in response to pikeral)
          Re: Tube selection...

          Good.

           

          We've got to remember that tubes do change the tone of our amps.  They are all made different and they do amplify differently one to another.  Some tones may not be amplified as much as others making tube choice very important now days.  Not to mention that one set may not sound anything like another set of the same brand/model.  I know this is a shame but we can more or less blame shoddy workmanship, manufacturing short-cuts, total production cost, etc, but I mostly blame the need for them to make the all-midy-dollar.

           

          I believe, based on my actual experiences, that the more we modify our SV amps the more we will notice the difference in our tube choices.  I believe my stock SV was crippled, starved, voiceless and lifeless, and lacking real tube tone and real tube gain, but after all my mods I now notice every little difference I run into, especially my tube choices.  I tried different tubes (12ax7's) in my stock SV and wasn't very impressed between them, but now I can notice the slightest change in overall tone by changing even a single 12ax7 tube, let along a set of power tubes.  I believe the more we voice and modify (actually give life to)  our SV amps the more important good glass becomes.  A starved - crimped - tone robbing - lifeless - totally digital modeling amp isn't going to make that much a difference when tubes are changed, but a full sounding - actual tube tone - full of life and voiced actual tube amp, I know it will.  At least thats how my research and experience has went with my SV. lol  I'm sure you will find this to be correct also.

           

          I wish all of us the best of luck.

           

          Good luck guys

          M^T

          • spaceatl Expert Line 6 User 4,456 posts since
            Jan 24, 2007
            Currently Being Moderated
            Jul 13, 2010 4:32 PM (in response to mtrash14)
            Re: Tube selection...

            Well, I can see that...and tubes are hard as $hit to make at the type of tolerance that we really need to get consistent tone set to set...If they were, I imagine we could never afford them...tight tolerances on something that has a lot of parts, expands and contracts with the heat changing the response, in depth knowledge of Electron Ballistics Theory (not taught to EEs anymore) and requires a vacuum too....mind-boggling to me that they are as consistent as they are...

    • mtrash14 Iknowathingortwo 539 posts since
      Feb 18, 2009
      Currently Being Moderated
      Jul 13, 2010 1:20 PM (in response to pikeral)
      Re: Tube selection...

      Sorry, this thing double posted - so I just deleted the 2nd copy here.

       

      M^T

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