Nick, no worries, I don’t think you are being disrespectful at all. But in closing, you only verify my statements, how other people interpret these facts is up to them. Personally, I have no problem with it, I was just trying to point out that some people do and maybe that is why they act the way they do.

You're right about that, TIm. As I said in a previous post that's the part that I find the hardest. If people want to mistrust us and believe that we're doing this for personal gain, they're certainly free to do so. And if they do, then they will equally mistrust statements like the one Nick just made, and the one I'm about to make. And it may simply give them more fuel for their belief, in the 'methinks thou dost protest too much' vein. Nothing we can do about that, but I do think it's fair for us to declare our motivations truthfully, whether or not it's perceived that way.

In that vein I think there's just one more thing that deserves mention. It relates to the 'free' equipment which I think is perceived by some as the gain/benefit for us.

I can confirm what Nick says, as least under the terms of my NDA. Line 6 owns the HD400 which I currently have in my possesion. I am obligated to return it whenever they ask for it back. So why do I still have it?

Well, I guess the cynical answer is that it's my payoff from Line 6. That's why I have spent so much time in this user forum from the beginning, that's why I'm such a points-hound, and Line 6 requires me through some hidden contractual arrangement to be a fanboy. I know none of this to be true but of course I can't prove it. Anyone is free to think this and hence mistrust anything I say. And if they're inclined that way then they will certainly mistrust my preceding statement that none of this is true. I can't do anything about that........ except perhaps offer a reasonable alternative interpretation.

I still have the equipment becasue Line 6 hasn't asked for it back (yet). Why? Well let's look at the history of Line 6 product development. Typically a product receives numerous software udpates through its lifecycle. So it seems reasonable to think that Line 6 anticipates releasing  software updates for the HD products. And, since we all now know that the HD series used a beta-test methodolgy, it seems reasonable to think that they might want to apply the same beta-test methodology to those updates. Now, my NDA prevents me from saying anything about whether or not that has happened, is happening, or will happen. But I don't think it's a stretch for an outside observer to imagine it (nor is it a violation of my NDA to point this out). And I think it's a much less cynical conclusion for an outside observer to reach. Perhaps the reason that I still have my equipment is that, in fact, the beta-test is ongoing. From my perspective it must be ongoing - Line 6 hasn't yet asked for me to return the HD400.

Hopefully this beta-test methodology results in an improved product when it hits the market for public consumption. I know it certainly improved the initial public release. If Line 6 asks me to participate in testing update releases I will happily do so. I already have the equipment and hopefully can help bring an improved product more quickly to the market, so that end-users who prefer not to be early adopters can have a more mature product sooner.

But of course everyone can make up their own mind. For me - I'll just continue answering questions and helping where I can (believe it or not).

Over and out...........

amgamg wrote:

 

Keeping up with this is interesting to say the least. So....Anyone who likes the HD500 is suspect of kissing LIne6 butt? Line 6 Experts are even more suspect for answering questions after gaining better knowledge from using on thier own gear over the years and having tested the product for free? Posters from other websites are free to ream Line6...Line 6 Experts..and Line 6 enthusiast cause Line 6 used people from everyday life to Beta Test the gear? Getting back to the Experts...Am I to believe that for points that share no monetary value...and  a title that points out who might help you with Line 6 questions...and some gear that might have to be returned anyway...there's a conspiracy going on? Perhaps its dangerous to purchase and use a HD 500? Most of all...Does any of this really matter to anyone when considering the purchase of the HD500? If it does why? I'd also like to advise to those who may be interested. I was once paid 2 dollars at the mall to taste test fruit flavored Halls Drops. Bareware...I may be in the tank for Halls!

I must have missed something, who said all that?

amgamg wrote:

 

Simple... If you or anyone meant to say  or imply these things I found it very hard not to wonder about  the questions I pose.

I guess I just don't get it. To me its very simple. Points are for fun and sport....Beta testers and the gear they test are for the best possible result for the consumer....Line 6 Experts are there to help us....Anything negative that can be contrived about any of it doesn't add up for me. The reason IMO that people come here to take a wiz on Line 6 and its supporters is they are simply insane. That's the best I can come up with. Far be it from me to be  judge and jury...these are just  my impressions. Modern consumers are apparently nuts...Some not all..perhaps not you.

Right on, I just didn't want to be misunderstood.

being a new HD500 owner, the title of this thread caught my eye.  then i saw the number of replies and immediately knew it must have gotten ugly.  sure enough.  just my two cents-  i don't care as much about how it stands up to the axe fx as i do about how it stands up to the real amps.  so far i'm VERY pleased, and even excited.  understand that i'm somebody who has generally snubbed line 6, accusing them of being "toy makers".  and to an extent, they HAVE been.  in fairness, they've been NICE toys, but toys nonetheless.  but now i have to say i'm officially a line 6 convert.  i believe the HD series is a game changer.  it will be interesting to see what the competition comes up with in the HD's price catagory.  anyway, back to how the HD stands up to the real deal.  i a/b'd it with my '97 Mesa Tremoverb 212 combo.  i was able to get clean sounds that were more pleasing to my ears out of the HD than the Mesa.  you may think that's no big deal, but ask somebody who has one of the original tremoverbs and you'll hear them gush about the surprisingly killer cleans that this amp has.  i've slayed many a Fender clean with my tremoverb.

then it was on to the distortion.  this wasn't as easy, and i started to get disappointed because the results weren't as easy to come by as they were with the cleans.  i'd say i was able to get about 70% of the tremoverbs sound with the HD.  bummer.  BUT-  then i started playing around with the cabinet models.  when i pulled up the model of the 212 ported Dr.Z cab-  there it was.  BAM.  i easily had 95% of my tremoverb's sound coming out of a borrowed cheapo carvin full range acoustic amp (AG100).  and i'm talking a STRONG 95%.  mind you this is after about 10 minutes worth of tweaking.  can you ever get 100%?  maybe.  i liked what i heard so much, that i moved on to other things.  i bought a flextone 3 that i liked the cleans on but was never happy with the distorted sounds.  the HD is just SO much better.  i can actually feel the sag in some of the models.  great sounds across the board.  keeper.  period.

regarding HD500 vs. axe fx-  that's really not that important to me.  before i found out about the HD line, i was shopping the axe fx.  if i remember correctly, they're around $1800, then you still need to drop another $200 or more for a floor controller?!  two grand, or more in all.  all i'll say is this-  aside from online demos and an adrian belew concert, i have never heard the axe fx in person.  but i'd be very willing to bet that the axe fx, if it DOES sound better, doesn't sound $1500 better!

boynigel wrote:

 

but i'd be very willing to bet that the axe fx, if it DOES sound better, doesn't sound $1500 better!

The difference between the HD and the Axe is far greater than $1500, its actually more along the lines of a difference of light years, its like comparing an outdated Atari 2600 console to a Playstation 3. 

2 Grand for an axe FX is actually a very shockingly under-priced proposition.  Its like owning an eventide H8000 with guitar amps!  

Its a super discounted price considering you are getting everything in a $6000 dollar Eventide FX unit (and even more FX blocks and more modulation capabilities than the H8000 such as the re-assignable arpegiattor as a step sequencer to any parameter in the unit instead of pitch if you wish... and not to mention the exact same super high end converters as used on the eventide H8000) - but with the addition of amps that sound like they are being recorded in a million dollar studio.  I remain surprised its only 2 grand.  This unit can easily have a monetary value of  8 to 10 grand.  But worth far more in my opinion.

And you might want to do a search on some of the Pepsi style blindfolded taste challenges that were conducted with the Axe FX in million dollar studios - given to the worlds most top end recording engineers. 

FarBeyond3 wrote:

 

boynigel wrote:

 

but i'd be very willing to bet that the axe fx, if it DOES sound better, doesn't sound $1500 better!

The difference between the HD and the Axe is far greater than $1500, its actually more along the lines of a difference of light years, its like comparing an outdated Atari 2600 console to a Playstation 3. 

 

2 Grand for an axe FX is actually a very shockingly under-priced proposition.  Its like owning an eventide H8000 with guitar amps!  

 

 

Well, I have both, and I'm glad I didn't pay more than $2000 for the AXE. But, if you want to buy it from me for $6000, it's all yours. I'll even throw in a discount and get it to you for $5000.

I honestly don't believe that Axe could be cheaper. It does have an awesome DSP and ad/da, plus tons of I/O and some awesome programming.