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1805 Views 18 Replies Latest reply: Jan 14, 2011 10:45 AM by desso RSS
nbroberts Just Startin'
nbroberts
12 posts since
Sep 30, 2010
Currently Being Moderated

Jan 5, 2011 1:19 AM

Distortion/Drives issue

Hi guys,

 

I'm using the HD500 to replace my pedals. To this end I'm using the 4CM with my Dr. Z MAZ 38.

My main drive pedal is a Barber LTD which I push with a Boss GE-7 set to slightly boost the mids.

I'm having problems replicating anything close to this with the HD. I could obviously use the LTD with the HD but I find that when I do this I don't get the same tone. The LTD sounds lifeless and lacking in character.

 

Does anyone here have any tips/hints for using the HD drives/distortions and/or using external pedals with the HD?

 

Also (might as well get me moneys worth ) does the firmware update overwrite the patches in the two user setlists?

 

Thanks for your time.

  • Nick_Mattocks Best of the Best
    Nick_Mattocks
    9,065 posts since
    Mar 26, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 5, 2011 2:39 AM (in response to nbroberts)
    Re: Distortion/Drives issue

    Hi

     

    Why not just use your LTD in the HD500's FX loop until you can work out how to get a closer replication from the HD500's distortion FX?  Personally I would  place any external drive or distortion pedals between the guitar and the HD500's input as that's the generally accepted place to put such FX rather than in the loop - but remember: the only rule is: there are no hard and fast rules    The HD500 should not suck tone unless you have it set up wrongly somehow. Make sure when you are using 4CM with your amp that you have amp modelling and cab modelling in the HD500 turned off or you will be stacking modelled tones over what I presume you want to keep - i.e. the original core tone of your amp or it will sound neither like your amp should or how the modelled amps should.  Only use amp and cab modelling in the HD500 when going in to your amp via its power amp in or FX return socket or when you've bypassed the amp's pre-amp by not including an FX loop in certain HD500 presets.  Make sure that you have the HD500 output switch next to the expression pedal set to Line and not Amp

     

    It's ALWAYS best to back up your presets to computer as a bundle, as individual set lists or as individual presets BEFORE you update the flash memory   When you update the flash memory, Monkey asks if you want to keep your existing presets BUT sometimes you are forced to answer NO as the update won't always proceed unless you do overwrite your presets - depends on how the new flash update is set up at Line 6.  Backing up regularly is always good practice

     

    Best regards

     

    Nick

    • nbroberts Just Startin'
      nbroberts
      12 posts since
      Sep 30, 2010
      Currently Being Moderated
      Jan 5, 2011 3:03 AM (in response to Nick_Mattocks)
      Re: Distortion/Drives issue

      Hi Nick,

      Thanks for your reply.

       

      I've not actually tried the LTD in front of the HD. I generally like wah & modulation BEFORE distortion so I've steered clear of this particular setup. Also, the HD is big enough without adding more pedals !

       

      I'm just using the HD for FX so the amps/cabs are already disabled in my patches.

       

      Has anyone got any handy drive/distortion settings?

       

      Also, I have already flashed the firmware (I had some problem with clipping and it was one of the possible solutions) and answered NO to keeping presets etc. All my user presets were still intact after the update. I now wonder if the update has worked correctly. The system info says 1.1 but could this be why I'm having problems??

      • Nick_Mattocks Best of the Best
        Nick_Mattocks
        9,065 posts since
        Mar 26, 2007
        Currently Being Moderated
        Jan 5, 2011 3:18 AM (in response to nbroberts)
        Re: Distortion/Drives issue

        I can't remember the exact wording Monkey gives you about retaining presets, but the essence of it is that you don't want to retain your presets when you do the flash update.  Just make sure you have them all backed up to computer 

         

        I would say that wah works fine at the head of the signal chain followed by distortion, but normally modulation works better POST pre-amp/amp model.

         

        It might help to know exactly what sort of tone you are aiming for and maybe you could post an MP3 clip of this either as an example with no HD500 and just your guitar, LTD, Wah and modulation FX into your amp or by pointing us towards a suitable example of a song which has the tones you are trying to recreate.  Also you could post your HD500 preset here.

         

        Nick

        • nbroberts Just Startin'
          nbroberts
          12 posts since
          Sep 30, 2010
          Currently Being Moderated
          Jan 5, 2011 3:31 AM (in response to Nick_Mattocks)
          Re: Distortion/Drives issue

          I'll try and attach a mp3 of my old tone (LTD Dr. Z etc) later on along with the patch I'm using.

           

          I'm not worried about losing my patches when I've flashed the firmware. I just wondered if them not being overwritten was indicitive of the flash failing.

          • Nick_Mattocks Best of the Best
            Nick_Mattocks
            9,065 posts since
            Mar 26, 2007
            Currently Being Moderated
            Jan 5, 2011 7:52 AM (in response to nbroberts)
            Re: Distortion/Drives issue

            Yes - it could be indicative of the whole flash update process failing before it got chance to even initialise the flash PROM, but it can fail after it has erased everything and before it has written the new data.  It looks to me like there was a communication error pretty much right at the start of the process before anything in the HD was actually changed if you could still access your data.

             

            Nick

            • nbroberts Just Startin'
              nbroberts
              12 posts since
              Sep 30, 2010
              Currently Being Moderated
              Jan 6, 2011 12:44 AM (in response to Nick_Mattocks)
              Re: Distortion/Drives issue

              Thanks Nick.

               

              I haven't had a chance to re-run the flash process - I'll do it tonight. When I've run it in the past the whole process appears to finish correctly with no errors. It's only the fact that none of my user presets have been overwritten that points to a possible failure. I hope this is the case as it could go someway to explaing the problems I'm having

      • whiteop Just Startin'
        whiteop
        415 posts since
        Dec 5, 2009
        Currently Being Moderated
        Jan 13, 2011 7:30 AM (in response to nbroberts)
        Re: Distortion/Drives issue

        I have three favorite distortion settings depending on the amp model used:

         

        • Screamer - Drive 45 or 50 on and about the same on volume. EQ to your own taste.
        • Classic Distortion - Drive 33 - 40 %, Filter to 55 - 60 %, treble 35 %, Output from 22 - 25%.
        • Overdrive - Drive 90 %. EQ to your own taste. This works well on the JCM800 and Park models.

         

        I use a Strat with Dimarzio Area pickups so that may make a difference but the settings should get you in the ballpark.

        • nbroberts Just Startin'
          nbroberts
          12 posts since
          Sep 30, 2010
          Currently Being Moderated
          Jan 14, 2011 12:42 AM (in response to whiteop)
          Re: Distortion/Drives issue

          Hi guys,

           

          Thanks for all the helpful replies.

          I've got things sounding much better now. I used the information here

           

          http://www.grumpyrocker.co.uk/using-pod-hd500-in-a

           

          To set up the HD FX loop levels. My send level ended up on -5db as this seemed to give me the most transparent sound when the HD was in line with no FX engaged. I didn't need to make any adjustments to the HD FX loop return level.

          I then did the same thing with the main out, which in my setup goes back to my amps FX loop return. I balanced the levels between the HD connected and un-connected. I ended up with the master level on the HD at 3 o'clock.

           

          So my signal chain is as follows....

           

          Guitar > HD In > Wah > U-Vibe > Tube Screamer > Tube Driver > RAT > HD FX Loop Send > Amp In > Amp FX Loop Send > HD FX Loop Return > Echo Platter Dry > Volume Pedal > Main HD out (left) > Amp FX Loop Return.

           

          I've got the volume pedal allocated to a footswitch and setup so that when it's on it's cutting volume and when it's off I get full volume. This is because I have found with the Dr.Z a volume boost in the FX loop just seems to add more power amp distortion not volume. This makes the echos indistinct. Almost as if it were going into the front end of the amp. So I now get a increase in volume for solos but it's still only what the power amp can cope with - does this make sense???

           

          I've got a gig tonight (Friday) so I'll let you know how I get on and also post the settings for the drive pedals as I'm in work at the moment.

           

          Cheers

           

          Message was edited by: nbroberts Forgot the mention the L & R pan in the mixer are both at 0 ie centered.

          • Nick_Mattocks Best of the Best
            Nick_Mattocks
            9,065 posts since
            Mar 26, 2007
            Currently Being Moderated
            Jan 14, 2011 3:25 AM (in response to nbroberts)
            Re: Distortion/Drives issue

            nbroberts wrote:

             

            Message was edited by: nbroberts Forgot the mention the L & R pan in the mixer are both at 0 ie centered.

             

             

             

            With the HD500 if you are using a single 1/4" output, regardless of where the stereo pan settings are adjusted the output will be summed to mono.  Use both 1/4" outputs and they will map to stereo.  The XLR outs always map to stereo whether you use one or both. So you can have some presets set for dual use - i.e. stereo if available or mono if not - and still achieve success

             

            Nick

            • nbroberts Just Startin'
              nbroberts
              12 posts since
              Sep 30, 2010
              Currently Being Moderated
              Jan 14, 2011 5:10 AM (in response to Nick_Mattocks)
              Re: Distortion/Drives issue

              Yeah I realise that I'm not running in stereo so the pans make no difference as far as stereo positioning. BUT if both pans are centered the signal (from either 1/4" jack) is definitely stronger/better. Just an observation

  • laplayantonio Guru
    laplayantonio
    2,435 posts since
    Sep 26, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 13, 2011 5:57 AM (in response to nbroberts)
    RE: Distortion/Drives issue

    hello

       

      make sure to get the advanced manual in http://line6.com/support/manuals/

       

      during the update process, Monkey asks if you wish keeping your user patches; anyway, you'd better do always a backup with HD500 Edit before updating

       

       

      line6antonio

  • ghanson2 Just Startin'
    ghanson2
    14 posts since
    Oct 22, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 13, 2011 6:45 AM (in response to nbroberts)
    Re: Distortion/Drives issue  Wow!

    Could have knocked me over with a feather just now!  I don't have an Answer yet but I wanted to say how interesting it was to me that I use that Exact same amp , with a Boss EQ for mid boost, slightly different gain pedal (Menatone King of the Britains) and the HD 500 for the same reason as you.  I wanted to get rid of all my expensive little pedals ( keep them at home) and just take one unit.  I am using a homebuilt USACG tele for the most part along with the requisite Strat and Paul here and there.  I too have had a little problem nailing down my previous pedal sounds but it's getting closer. The tube driver emulation on the hd has been my Easiest place to start so far.  I have also had some luck treating the Pre models of some of the amps as distortion pedals.  After all, some of the coolest pedals from Menatone and M Audio are kind of "amp Pre. Emulations" themselves!   I will post some clips and patch ideas as time permits.  I have to spend the next ten days in the Caribbean with my family on a vacation.

    • Nick_Mattocks Best of the Best
      Nick_Mattocks
      9,065 posts since
      Mar 26, 2007
      Currently Being Moderated
      Jan 14, 2011 3:21 AM (in response to ghanson2)
      Re: Distortion/Drives issue  Wow!

      ghanson2 wrote:

       

      I have to spend the next ten days in the Caribbean with my family on a vacation.

       

       

      You make that sound like a chore LOL.  Mind you, given the choice of Caribbean or stay at home with the HD500 it would be hard to know what to do....

      • ghanson2 Just Startin'
        ghanson2
        14 posts since
        Oct 22, 2007
        Currently Being Moderated
        Jan 14, 2011 6:35 AM (in response to Nick_Mattocks)
        Re: Distortion/Drives issue  Wow!

        I'm not a very good vacationer.  I guess I'm more comfortable playing music than just about anything else,

        • desso Just Startin'
          desso
          116 posts since
          Mar 3, 2007
          Currently Being Moderated
          Jan 14, 2011 6:45 AM (in response to ghanson2)
          Re: Distortion/Drives issue  Wow!
          The ONLY thing I enjoy more that my PRS/HD500/Bass/Keys/Drum Kit/Recording/etc. is my family.  Have a good time with them.
          • ghanson2 Just Startin'
            ghanson2
            14 posts since
            Oct 22, 2007
            Currently Being Moderated
            Jan 14, 2011 6:58 AM (in response to desso)
            Re: Distortion/Drives issue  Wow!

            Thanks! Point well taken.  It's really my problem with relaxing, hanging out,, etc..  The wife and kids are really great and fun to be with.  I just find that when I'm sitting around ,, my mind starts wandering back to music "stuff"  I've done it for a living for several years and I need to learn how to let it go when it's time to Let It Go..  Especially tough for me with a new HD and a Variax showing up on the 24th of the month.  Maybe I'll look into abusing prescription drugs or something for the next ten days.

            • desso Just Startin'
              desso
              116 posts since
              Mar 3, 2007
              Currently Being Moderated
              Jan 14, 2011 10:45 AM (in response to ghanson2)
              Re: Distortion/Drives issue  Wow!

              Yeah, I know whatcha mean, I was a basket case waiting for my HD500 to be delivered (and a week or so afterwards).  Neglected everyone (kitties included).  LOL.  I've been out of town on business this week (at the airport now killing a few hours tethered to my droid) and although I miss my music, I'll have to say I miss my wife more.  My girls are both in college now, so I've gotten used to not seeing them all the time.  We're empty-nesters now, and I must say it's like the honeymoon all over again.  At least for a while.

               

              Rock on

  • whiteop Just Startin'
    whiteop
    415 posts since
    Dec 5, 2009
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 13, 2011 7:26 AM (in response to nbroberts)
    Re: Distortion/Drives issue

    I use 3 overdrive pedals in front of my amp through the Guitar In jack on the HD500 and it sounds best to my ears. I don't use them in the loop.

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