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jacoby75 Just Startin'
jacoby75
11 posts since
Nov 22, 2010
Currently Being Moderated

Nov 22, 2010 6:59 PM

Relay G50 signal dropout

Hi all,

 

I purchased a G50 for my bass guitar a few months ago, and have been really impressed with the tone and features of the unit.  I love no longer having to worry about tripping over my cable, and the sound is great as well.

 

I am having one problem, though, which upon reviewing the boards I see others have experienced.  I have a random, intermittent signal loss.  At the risk of repeating what others have said, here's the problem:  Througout a 4 hour set, it sounds perfect 99% of the time.  However, anywhere from 1x per night to 1x per set, I have a random signal loss for about half a second or a second.  The bass just cuts out, and then comes right back in.  There seems to be no rhyme or reason to when it happens.  I could be as close as 5-6 feet from the receiver, or 30-50 feet away.  It can be with brand new or older batteries.  I also have two different 1/4" to trs cables that I have used with it (the factory one, and one that came with a Shure system), and it happens with both cables.  It doesn't seem to be worse with one cable over the other.  When it happens, I'm not close enough to my amp to see the lights on the receiver to know if any of the green lights went out, or turned red, but by the time I notice the drop out and get back to the amp, the sound is back and the lights appear normal.  It also happens irregardless of what channel I'm on, having experienced it on at least a couple of channels.  Regarding signal strength, I always have 3 full green bars on the receiver.  I don't think I've ever seen it lower, and I've never seen red lights in signal strength.  The bass just cuts out and then comes right back.  I have wiggled the cables on both ends, and it doesn't seem to have anything to do with the connection from either the bass to the transmitter or the receiver to the amp.  It's just a random signal loss.

 

Ultimately, maybe it's not that big of a deal for the average person, but being a full-time musician in a touring band, it's a pretty big deal to me.  It makes me look really bad when the bass just quits working multiple times per night.  Reliability is very important to me when I'm on the road, so I want to know if there's anything I can do to help this situation.  Again, there seems to be no rhyme or reason as to when it happens that I can discern, and no warning.  It just cuts out and then comes back.

 

Reading some of the responses in other posts, I can answer some of the questions you may ask:

1.  Yes, I usually have my cell phone in my pocket while I play.

2.  I have the receiver sitting on top of my amp rack, which is an SKB rack case (molded plastic with metal railings) and of course metal components inside, as close as the top rock space.

 

-are you saying those 2 factors will affect the reliability of the signal?  I saw that question asked a few times but never saw a definitive answer.  If that is the case, would that mean if I leave the cell phone somewhere else and maybe set my receiver on the floor it would help?

 

3.  I've never been looking at the signal strength bars when it happens, so I don't know if there's a change, but by the time I get back to the amp to check, it shows 3 solid green bars, always.

4.  I can be anywhere from 5 feet to 50 feet away when it happens.

5.  Happens with both fresh or older batteries

6.  I am using the factory power supply.

 

Thanks a lot,

 

Rick

Tags: dropout, signal, malfunction, g50
  • dboomer Line 6 Support
    dboomer
    1,997 posts since
    Oct 13, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    1. Nov 23, 2010 9:22 AM (in response to jacoby75)
    Re: Relay G50 signal dropout

    Hi Rick

     

    Cell phones do not cause dropouts nor do they cause audio interference to Relay.  Cell phones may get into your instrument or cable and then since they become part of your signal  they would go throught the Relay, but Relay will not pick it up in the radio.

     

    There is always a chance of overloading a receiver if you get the transmitter too close to a receiver.  Usually 5 feet away is a safe distance.  Have you tried setting the transmitter to low power.  I know it seems intautively wrong to set it to low ... but radios always work better if the tranmitter and the antennas do not have too much power.

     

    The green LEDs will go out on the receiver if the signal mutes, so if the green LEDs stay on and the signal drops it is not the radio having the problem.  Usually in this case it is because the jack into the guitar or into the receiver is a bit loose.

     

    The metal rings on your case are only a problem in the antennas come within about 1 inch of them (or actually touch them).  Do you ever find yourself near big metal when you play?  For example leaning up against something like a refridgerator or a metal garage door would cause the system to mute.

     

    Generally having the antennas up in the air works better than on the floor ... as this helps line of sight issues.  Do you splay the antennas at a 45 degree angle?  This helps with polarization.

     

    Is the beltpack on your strap or in your pocket?  It will perform much better on your strap.  Does your strap have any metal in it?

     

    Without being there in person it is hard to diagnose the problem.  It is possible that you have a hardware issue, but not likely.  It is more likely that you have a line of sight issue when the unit mutes.

  • jacoby75 Just Startin'
    jacoby75
    11 posts since
    Nov 22, 2010
    Currently Being Moderated
    2. Nov 23, 2010 2:32 PM (in response to dboomer)
    Re: Relay G50 signal dropout

    Hi "dboomer,"  Thanks for writing back.

     

    1)  Regarding the cell phone:  I didn't know if there was any connection there between the dropouts and having my cell phone in my pocket.  I just saw that brought up in previous forums.  I didn't know if maybe the cell phone would interfere with the radio transmissions.  I've never heard the phone picked up through the instrument or through the bass.  Just curious.

     

    2)  Regarding overloading the receiver:  That is possible.  I'm sure there are times on smaller stages where I am closer than 5 feet to the receiver.  That may be part of it.  However, it also happens when I am farther away from the receiver.  So, I'm not sure.  I'll keep that in mind, though, and see if I can notice better how close I am to the receiver when it happens.  I have been using it primarily on low power since I got it, so that's not necessarily it.  However, I did wonder if using it on low power was part of the problem.  I thought that maybe it wasn't getting enough signal.  However, like I said, it can also happen when I'm only a few feet away from the receiver on low power.  And I've gone upwards of 50-60 feet away while in low power without having any dropouts.  So I didn't necessarily think it was a problem of the receiver not getting enough signal.

     

    3)  Regarding the green receiver LED's:  Again, I haven't been in a position to see the LED's when it happens, but I'll try to do something about that.  Maybe I'll try to prop the receiver up on an angle so that as soon as I hear it happen I can look back and see the LED's.  But to this point, I haven't noticed any change in the LED's.  I'll keep an eye on that.  I doubt that it's the jack in the bass or the amp, though, because I used the same bass/amp setup for 6-7 months before getting a wireless without ever having this problem.  Also, I think if it was the jack, the dropout would last longer, or maybe there would be some static or crackling instead of just a straight 1 second long periodic drop, but there hasn't been.

     

    4)  The metal rings on my amp:  I do set the receiver on top of my amp towards the front, so it would be close to within 1" of the metal ring around the top.  I'll try setting it farther back so that it's just on the ABS plastic part and not as close to the metal.  As far as being near "big metal," I never lean on metal.  I am sometimes on stages that have metal components (like portable stages that are made up of 8x8 sections with metal frames around each section or something, for example.  But I would assume my shoes isolate me from any ground issues there), or in clubs that have corrugated metal sheeting around the room, but never touching me or my amp, and never that close to the wireless.

     

    5)  Yes, I always have the antennas spread at a 45 degree angle.

     

    6)  The transmitter is always on my strap, and there is no metal on the strap.

     

    I understand it's hard to know exactly what's going on without being there, but thanks for the advice.  I'll look into the above stuff, and if it happens again, I'll let you know.

     

    Thanks

     

    Rick

  • dboomer Line 6 Support
    dboomer
    1,997 posts since
    Oct 13, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    3. Nov 23, 2010 3:01 PM (in response to jacoby75)
    Re: Relay G50 signal dropout

    WRT #4 (and for anybody listening in)

     

    Large metal objects cause reflections of radio waves and distortion of the information in them.  This is a physics issue and affects all radios (not just ours).  I'm guessing someone would have great difficulty playing with any wireless in the boy's locker room.  It's like echo to a sound system.  they just don't mix well.  You don't have to actually touch anything.  If you get close enough to a big enough steel girder you will likely have problems.

  • bob4us Just Startin'
    bob4us
    20 posts since
    Aug 16, 2010
    Currently Being Moderated
    4. Nov 27, 2010 3:52 AM (in response to dboomer)
    Re: Relay G50 signal dropout

    Does the two antenna should perform a "diversity" reception just to avoid reflections effects?

    I used for 10 years a Nady UHF diversity analog system without any dropout,

    Now with G90 I'm entusiast of the sound but I'm experiencing a similar problem on stage, rare but very upsetting: one or two drop outs per session with full battery charge, 3 meter distance.

    I'm a little warried because if it's a firmware bug there's no way to upgrade it from an external port.

     

    Bob

  • jacoby75 Just Startin'
    jacoby75
    11 posts since
    Nov 22, 2010
    Currently Being Moderated
    5. Dec 10, 2010 12:49 PM (in response to jacoby75)
    Re: Relay G50 signal dropout

    Just an update.  I did not use the Relay at a couple of gigs on small stages where I would be less than 3-5 feet away most of the time.  However, I have used at 3 or 4 gigs since my last comment, where I had larger stages so I could be further away from the receiver.  I moved the receiver towards the center of the top of my rack case so that it was more than a few inches away from the metal rings on the front and back.  Since doing that, and being farther away, I have not experienced any dropouts.  I'm hoping that might fix the issue.  If it happens again, I'll repost.  Thanks for the help.

  • dboomer Line 6 Support
    dboomer
    1,997 posts since
    Oct 13, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    6. Dec 10, 2010 2:15 PM (in response to jacoby75)
    Re: Relay G50 signal dropout

    Glad it's working.  You can switch to Low Power on the G50 or G90 if you need to be close.  I just read info from one of our competitor's website and they recommend a 10 foot minimum distance.

     

    Working with radios is a bit like working with speakers.  They may sound great at 5 or 10 feet, but not so pleasant if you stick your ear right up to one.

  • jacoby75 Just Startin'
    jacoby75
    11 posts since
    Nov 22, 2010
    Currently Being Moderated
    7. Feb 1, 2011 2:34 PM (in response to jacoby75)
    Re: Relay G50 signal dropout

    Hi D Boomer, or to whom it may concern, if you are not the one to get this. : ) I continue to have issues with my relay wireless.  Same problem.  I had a gig or two where it didn't drop out and I got cocky.  However, it is happening again, and the last gig was the worst.  I had to have dropped at least 2-3 times in the same gig.  I was at least 10 feet away from the receiver, and everything else was the same.  This has become really frustrating.  The wireless system should just work.  I feel that this device is completely unreliable.  I shouldn't have to worry about things like is there metal in the room, or are people using laptops, or amy I overloading the receiver.  With the professional level that I'm playing at, I cannot afford to have my signal keep cutting out.  It makes me look like I'm making mistakes or like I stop playing for a second.  I use it on low power all of the time, and only use it on gigs now where I can be at least 8-10 feet away from my amp.  However, it continues to drop out.  Is there anything you can do for it if I send it in?  I seem to not be the only person having this issue, so there must be something going on here.  In all of the time I've had it (I use it at least 1x/weekend for the past 8-10 months, I could count on one hand the number of shows in which it hasn't dropped a signal.  And there is no rhyme or reason to it.  It might drop when I'm closer to the amp, when I'm 20 feet away or 50 feet away . . . indoors or outdoors . . . passive or active basses.  It just keeps failing on me.  What can we do about this?  The good tone is not worth it if I'm constantly cutting out. Thanks Rick

  • dboomer Line 6 Support
    dboomer
    1,997 posts since
    Oct 13, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    8. Feb 2, 2011 8:35 AM (in response to jacoby75)
    Re: Relay G50 signal dropout

    You should call our service department and get the hardware checked out ... 818.575.3600

  • jacoby75 Just Startin'
    jacoby75
    11 posts since
    Nov 22, 2010
    Currently Being Moderated
    9. Feb 2, 2011 9:08 AM (in response to dboomer)
    Re: Relay G50 signal dropout

    Will do.  Thanks for getting back with me.

  • cyberwally2000 Just Startin'
    cyberwally2000
    5 posts since
    Mar 31, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    10. Feb 5, 2011 11:50 AM (in response to jacoby75)
    Re: Relay G50 signal dropout

    Hi my name is Walt, and  I just purchased a Relay G50 unit.  I must say that at first I was quite impressed with the sound but alas I'm also experiencing random signal drop out.  I've used it with different guitars and amps and it happens when you least expect it.   In the manual  line 6 talks about putting power on High and checking that the unit is in the lock mode, did this but still have random dropouts less then before I must admit.  Any ideas? Take care.

  • jacoby75 Just Startin'
    jacoby75
    11 posts since
    Nov 22, 2010
    Currently Being Moderated
    11. Feb 5, 2011 12:13 PM (in response to cyberwally2000)
    Re: Relay G50 signal dropout

    Hey Walt,

    Seems to be a common problem.  I see no rhyme or reason to when, how, or why the dropouts happen.  I called customer service a couple of days ago and got an RMA # to send it in to be checked out.  Hopefully they'll be able to figure out what's going on.

    Rick

  • cyberwally2000 Just Startin'
    cyberwally2000
    5 posts since
    Mar 31, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    12. Feb 5, 2011 2:16 PM (in response to jacoby75)
    Re: Relay G50 signal dropout

    Hey Rick , thanks for your quick reply.  Please let me know if there is any info on their part to solve this problem.  By the way did you try locking your system, this is what I read on the troubleshooting section of the manual.  Yet still this doesn't convince me, let's see what Line 6 comes up.  Thanks again ,  Walt

  • jacoby75 Just Startin'
    jacoby75
    11 posts since
    Nov 22, 2010
    Currently Being Moderated
    13. Feb 5, 2011 2:27 PM (in response to cyberwally2000)
    Re: Relay G50 signal dropout

    No prob.  I'll keep you posted.  I never tried locking the transmitter.  I'm not entirely sure how that would help.  Looks like that just makes it so you can't make any changes to the transmitter while in use, like changing the channel or power setting accidentally or something.

  • rsto10 Just Startin'
    rsto10
    27 posts since
    Apr 22, 2009
    Currently Being Moderated
    14. Feb 5, 2011 6:51 PM (in response to jacoby75)
    Re: Relay G50 signal dropout

    I also have a G50 with signal dropout.  Have tried everything you have listed above and nothing makes it better.  Originally, I was blaming it on my Line6 amp, but after playing a few gigs with a cable (and feeling like a dog on a leash) I had no dropouts.  Please keep us posted on what you find out.  I think I'll be sending mine in soon as well.

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