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1002 Views 12 Replies Latest reply: Nov 7, 2012 7:01 PM by fechart RSS
Caxito Just Startin'
Caxito
63 posts since
Feb 18, 2011
Currently Being Moderated

Feb 20, 2011 3:59 PM

Further explanation of the four cables method

Guys, sorry to ingnorance that persists.

Got the HD 500.

Still do not understand the operation of four cable method.

I wonder what practical result, initial, binding of the HD in an amplifier for this method because I seek to take maximum advantage of my new equipment and also has a tube amp, a Blackstar Ht 40, Effects Loop.

1) How this method works?
2) I will use the dynamic effects of the pre jointly Blackstar?
3) What about the HD modeling amp? They overlap of the pre Blackstar? The modeling of the HD amplifiers would bind directly to the Power of the Blackstar?
4) The modulation effects would bind directly to the Power of the Blackstar?

Grateful

  • Octo777 Iknowathingortwo
    Octo777
    851 posts since
    Feb 23, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 21, 2011 2:58 AM (in response to Caxito)
    Re: Further explanation of the four cables method

    Caxito wrote:

     

    Guys, sorry to ingnorance that persists.

    Got the HD 500.

    Still do not understand the operation of four cable method.

    I wonder what practical result, initial, binding of the HD in an amplifier for this method because I seek to take maximum advantage of my new equipment and also has a tube amp, a Blackstar Ht 40, Effects Loop.

    1) How this method works?
    2) I will use the dynamic effects of the pre jointly Blackstar?
    3) What about the HD modeling amp? They overlap of the pre Blackstar? The modeling of the HD amplifiers would bind directly to the Power of the Blackstar?
    4) The modulation effects would bind directly to the Power of the Blackstar?

    Grateful

     

    This video explains a little more in depth as to how it works and as to the benifits.

     

  • tommasi Iknowathingortwo
    tommasi
    627 posts since
    Sep 3, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 21, 2011 6:30 AM (in response to Caxito)
    Re: Further explanation of the four cables method

    Hi -- the four cable method is effectively explained in the previous post's video. However, here's a recap of its advantages:

     

    * it allows you to use EITHER the amp's preamp or the modelled preamp, or even, should you want to, both at the same time

    * it allows you to run "pre" effects before the preamp (real or modelled)

    * it allows you to run "post" effects after the preamp (real or modelled)

    * it allows you to define all this on a patch-by-patch basis, which means that on one patch you might have your amp's full tone with no coloration from the pod, whereas on another you may bypass the amp's preamp and use the emulation.

    • bverdon Just Startin'
      bverdon
      58 posts since
      Jun 17, 2006
      Currently Being Moderated
      Feb 21, 2011 6:20 PM (in response to tommasi)
      Re: Further explanation of the four cables method

      Thanks for the info guys. Just curious as to how successful this method has been for others? Anyone using this through their rigs? Results?

       

      Likes?

       

      Dislikes?

       

       

      Thanks

      • Nick_Mattocks Best of the Best
        Nick_Mattocks
        9,065 posts since
        Mar 26, 2007
        Currently Being Moderated
        Feb 22, 2011 12:42 AM (in response to bverdon)
        Re: Further explanation of the four cables method

        Yes - I have used the 4 cable method with my Marshall heads (TSL100 and JVM205H); my Spider Valve MkII and HD500 so that I can either:

         

        a)     Use the HD500 purely for FX whilst using the amp's pre-amp section

        b)     As a full modeller with my amp's power amp section only

         

        It works and it sounds good either way, but to be perfectly honest, the HD00's modelling features are easily good enough in my opinion and the HD500 provides me with more than enough tonal variety to forget about 4CM altogether and just go straight to the power amp section of my amp.  I would only go to the lengths of using 4CM if my amp's natural sound wasn't achievable (or as close as makes little difference) using the HD500 as the front end; or if there were something else my amp had that was simply not available in the HD500 in some way.  For live use, I'd be pretty hard pushed not to find my sound in the HD500 if I'm honest.

         

        The 4CM is great if you need it, but just extra hassle and cables if you don't really need it.  I don't really need it with the HD500.  I have an M13 and always use this with 4CM and my Marshall amps, but the M13 doesnt have amp and cab modelling like the HD500 does.  I own an X3 Live and an XT Live and have to say that before the HD500 I always pretty much went back to the amp and stomp boxes, but the HD500 is such a big improvement over the old PODs to me that I am happy with the sound I get overall just using it pre my amp's power amp section.

         

        Nick

        • BeerHump Just Startin'
          BeerHump
          11 posts since
          Oct 25, 2012
          Currently Being Moderated
          Nov 4, 2012 11:02 PM (in response to Nick_Mattocks)
          Re: Further explanation of the four cables method

          Hi Nick, Beerhump here - total boneheaded noob struggling with the connection flexibility offered by the HD500. I'm trying to come to grips with the 4CM, but your method seems much simpler. Could you briefly explain your connection method please - i.e. guitar -> amp in, POD L Mono FX Send -> amp FX return (or whatever it really is  )

           

          Also, when I'm using the 4CM, my entire amp's (Egnater Rebel 20) controls are by-passed somehow. No gain, treble, mid, bass, master control at all. The POD controls it all. I kind of get that the POD is now the pre-amp of the Rebel (it's a single channel amp BTW), but then I get totally confused by the FX-loop when creating a patch  - you know trying to put an OD before the pre-amp and a delay in the chain before it hits the power amp section. I've read a number of docs on this site and watched the vids, but the penny just won't drop.

           

          Any help is very much appreciated.

           

          Thanks.

          • jimsreynolds Power User
            jimsreynolds
            2,227 posts since
            Jun 27, 43450
            Currently Being Moderated
            Nov 5, 2012 1:37 AM (in response to BeerHump)
            Re: Further explanation of the four cables method

            I think you are getting a bit spun out.   First off it helps to understand whan 4CM seeks to do.  Take a look at the info here ... it will explain the problem that 4CM seeks to solve.  http://line6.com/support/docs/DOC-2523

             

            If you like the look of this then try the instructions in the guide here to get 4CM working ... http://line6.com/support/docs/DOC-2522

             

            If you are setup properly for 4CM but your amp's controls are not working then there is a problem with your setup.  The point of 4CM is that it allows you to use the features of your amp.  If your cabling is correct then the most likely problem is  that you either 1)  do not have an FX Loop block or 2)  that the FX Loop block is not turned on.

             

            Failing that:  just a quick recap on the other methods of connecting up the POD

             

            Front of Amp

             

                 Guitar ==> HD Input

                 HD 1/4" Output ==> Amp Input

             

            This is the simplest way and works well for many people.  It works well if you are mainly using the clean channel on your amp or you are only using effects that normally sit in front of the amp(e.g. compression, wah, distortions, some modulations).  It is also OK for amp modelling if setup correctly.  Not always so great for reverbs and delays etc, particularly where higher gain tones are used.

             

            Output mode should normally be set to 'Combo Front' or 'Stack Front'

             

            In the Loop


                 Guitar ==> Amp Input

                 Amp FX Loop Send ==>  HD Input

                 HD 1/4" Output Left ==> Amp FX Return

             

            This way works very well for effects like echoes and delays, reverbs and some modulations.  Not so well for distortions and wah.  Amp Modelling will almost certainly sound weird.

             

            Output mode should normally be set to 'Combo Power' or 'Stack Power'

             

            Direct Connection into Power Amp

             

                 Guitar --> HD500 In

                 HD500 Left 1/4" Out --> Amp FX Loop return

             

            The Amp FX Loop Return may also be labelled as 'Power Amp In'.  Make sure that the Amp Loop is turned on.  If the loop has a switch allowing you to choose between stompbox level (-10dB) or line level (+4dB) then set it to line level.

             

            Note:  You may (or may not) need a 'dummy' patch cable plugged into the Amp FX Send/Pre-Amp Out socket to make the loop work.  The other end of the cable is not plugged into anything.

             

            If the amp has a 'Parallel' FX Loop then turn it to 100% Effected/Wet.  Some Parallel Loops (e.g. Bognor Alchemist) always have a mix between effected and uneffected signal even with the parallel loop level at 100% and these can cause problems with your tone.  Most effect loops are still 'Serial' and these tend to work better with MultiFx.

             

            You would nearly always want to use an Amp Model turned on.  Without one the setup will sound very dead.  Start by using a 'Pre' model (listed after the full amps in the list of amps) and see how that sounds.

             

            If you need still more boost:  try a Studio Eq effect block.  Boost the gain parameter only and this will provide a clean boost without colouring the tone.

             

            Output mode should normally be set to 'Combo Power' or 'Stack Power'

            • BeerHump Just Startin'
              BeerHump
              11 posts since
              Oct 25, 2012
              Currently Being Moderated
              Nov 5, 2012 10:32 PM (in response to jimsreynolds)
              Re: Further explanation of the four cables method

              Thanks very much for your help Jim. You're on the money about me being spun out!   I had the cabling right, just couldn't understand the amp's conrols being by-passed and how the HD500's FX Loop affects things. I found a thread on this site that actually discussed a little of this in relation to Egnater amps here: http://line6.com/support/message/380044  It's even got some pearls of wisdom from you in it which made good sense. I'm going to fiddle around a bit more, experiment a bit more and see how I go.

               

              Oh, one thing that just popped into my head is that the FX Loop Send/Return and Mix controls don't seem to affect anything. I think it's all somehow related to the way the Egnater's FX Loop is set up. Looksx like some intensive fiddling coming up!

               

              The Hump

              • jimsreynolds Power User
                jimsreynolds
                2,227 posts since
                Jun 27, 43450
                Currently Being Moderated
                Nov 6, 2012 9:00 AM (in response to BeerHump)
                Re: Further explanation of the four cables method

                 

                BeerHump wrote:

                 

                 

                One thing that just popped into my head is that the FX Loop Send/Return and Mix controls don't seem to affect anything. I think it's all somehow related to the way the Egnater's FX Loop is set up. Looksx like some intensive fiddling coming up!

                 

                 

                If things are setup correctly then these controls will do something.  The FX Send level determines how strong the signal is into the Amp's input.  It can only be adjusted down () but if you were to turn it all the way down then you would surely hear your signal drop off.   Again, this points to the FX Loop being in the chain but not turned on. 

                • BeerHump Just Startin'
                  BeerHump
                  11 posts since
                  Oct 25, 2012
                  Currently Being Moderated
                  Nov 6, 2012 9:40 PM (in response to jimsreynolds)
                  Re: Further explanation of the four cables method

                  Hi Jim, just to hopefully close the loop (no pun intended) on this one, I think I've got it sorted.

                   

                  I'm connecting with the 4CM following your support docos on this site which seems to work fine - the only unexpected result being the it completely by-passes the Egnater's pre-amp. So I use pre-amp models with no cabs and there's no FX Loop block in my chain. I place my FX pre and post in the SFV and it seems to work very nicely. The signal seems a little bright across the board, but some EQing helps. I'm using the stack power input option and instrument levels as the line setting introduced noise. Hope that makes sense.

                   

                  Thanks again for answering my question and for putting up some excellent support docs.

                   

                  The Hump

  • fechart Just Startin'
    fechart
    74 posts since
    Apr 27, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 7, 2012 7:01 PM (in response to Caxito)
    Re: Further explanation of the four cables method

    Hi, Caxito, do you speak spanish??? i use the 4CM succesfully with my POD HD 500 and my Laney TT50C, I can help you if you want... Also Jimsreynolds there is the 4CM guy!!!

     

    Cheers!

     

    Flavio

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