Karl_Houseknecht wrote:

 

 

Any money in the world?  I think that's a losing bet.  Given someone with decent engineering skills (oh, sorry, I forgot that we're not building engines here ) and a good amp, I don't think you'd have a "clear" winner.  In fact, I'd bet you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference.

 

 

and for cost reasons, that lends weight to what I was trying to share.

Karl_Houseknecht wrote:

 

 

See, this type of challenge has been done numerous times already.  Spot the real amp.  And real "engineers" have weighed in with the wrong results.  This has been done time and time again with "basement" tech.

 

My whole point earlier in this thread is that there are more cost effective routes to getting good recorded tone that can yield results that are every bit as good.  I go back to recordings I made with the POD and the Axe, and if I didn't know which was which, I'd be hard pressed to say one was clearly better than the other.

I am not even bashing the POD.  I am saying that modeling is the cost effective way to go over signal chains costing tens of thousands which are the only way to get better sound.

Lets say the new HD Pro coming out is going to be what, a thousand dollars max? Or take an Ultra which can be found from 1600-1800 now?   Compare that to the following list of expenses trying to do it the real way to get top end results that sound proper:

tube amp $1500

cab: $1000

microphones: about $500 for an expensive dynamic paired with a $100 SM57

Neve preamp: $5000
Studer Tape Machine (thousands) for used

etc, etc.

FarBeyond3 wrote:

....

 

Lets say the new HD Pro coming out is going to be what, a thousand dollars max? Or take an Ultra which can be found from 1600-1800 now?   Compare that to the following list of expenses trying to do it the real way to get top end results that sound proper:

 

tube amp $1500

cab: $1000

microphones: about $500 for an expensive dynamic paired with a $100 SM57

Neve preamp: $5000
Studer Tape Machine (thousands) for used

etc, etc.

Wait - are you saying the Axe-FX doesn't 'sound proper'?  The Axe-FX is among that set of not-the-real-things devices like the Pod HD and Ultra - except it costs much more to get the results that don't 'sound proper'. But they all sound very good to me - and the Pod HD seems to be the best value for $$.

silverhead wrote:

Wait - are you saying the Axe-FX doesn't 'sound proper'?

Where did I say the AFX doesn't.  I am an advocate for it.

silverhead wrote:

 

The Axe-FX is among that set of not-the-real-things devices like the Pod HD and Ultra - except it costs much more to get the results that don't 'sound proper'. But they all sound very good to me - and the Pod HD seems to be the best value for $$.

 

POD HD is ok.  Not alot of tone or distortion shaping options though.  Low pass filter sucks. Can't sweep the whole range.  EQs are dreadful.  The parametric is not a real parametric.   But the amps are not bad.  But I don't hear it to be as defined or as tight the Fractal box.   But the worse point about the HD stuff is the cabs IMO. Why can't you import IRs?  LOL

FarBeyond3 wrote:

 

silverhead wrote:

Wait - are you saying the Axe-FX doesn't 'sound proper'?

Where did I say the AFX doesn't.  I am an advocate for it.

..

Yes, I think we all understand that you are an advocate. But your post which prompted my response implied that the only way to get the 'top end results that sound proper' is to use the very expensive list of equipment that you provided. I don't hear anyone disagreeing with that. The Axe-FX , whether Ultra or the latest, is among the not-the-real-things, like the Pod HD. All anyone here is saying (expect you) is that, for themselves, the Pod HD is a better-value compromise when comparing price and sound quality. Others prefer to pay the extra $$ for a sound quality they like better. Everybody is right. That's all this is about.

You seem very insistent that your preference is somehow absolute - that anyone who personally prefers the Pod HD value-for-$$ is simply wrong. And that's what people here won't tolerate.

So, you don't trust the soundman to mic your amp? Yet, you'll go direct. Do you monitor through wedges? IEM? Your going direct into the FOH mixers preamp and EQ section right? And the soundman has control not only over your FOH sound, but also your monitor? You trust him with that?

I mic my own amp. I use my own e609. I also check my FOH sound during sound check. And even if the soundman mucks up my FOH tone, my stage tone is still what I want it to be and I can have a few words with the soundman later. I also have the option of making my point with volume. Going direct, you're screwed. Bad monitors, crappy mixers, and simple human error makes going direct a nightmare for an actual gigging player. Every board, power amp, monitor and soundman is different.

The Axe-Fx is a great sounding unit. Much better than anything Line 6 has in my opinion. But it is way overpriced simply due to the availability. And like I said, modeling is a fad that has waned. It peaked two years ago. It will soon go the way of the dodo. It's not like keyboards where a piano or B3 is not viable. Most analog pedalboards are about the same size as an HD. And amps have gotten really good and dependable.

Guys doing duos, hotel gigs, casinos, church, places where volume is an issue will still use modelers direct. It's a great option for that. Or maybe even players that work in a static environment where they always use their own system in the same room and can dial it in and leave it. Like a house gig. But if you think you can waltz in with your HD, X3L or Axe-FX and plug into any board and sound great, you don't have much experience actually doing it. 

I need a programmable, high quality, all analog, true bypass, non clicking and noiseless multi effect pedal. Is that too much to ask for?

I would just buy an axe fx 2 if your are really rich and the price tag (2200 $) doesn't bother you at all. Technology advances too rapidly. Even the Axe FX 2 will be outdated too soon .

Axe FX 3 in 2014? Maybe!

Pod HD delivers the tone (90%), is constantly improved via firmware update. And that's enough for me for playing live. More tone for the $.

Axe Fx 2 is well made, but over top for me.

Over priced why not buy a dual core i5/7 and use guitar rig 4? You can get all that under a grand. This stuff(axe fx) reminds me of eventide back in the 70s 80s 3000 to 5 grand for the flaship processors H3000..Line 6 is on the right track. I would like to see pitch shift with +1/-1 tweaking, among some other top notch stereo effects. However, for the price who is going to sell more product? Line 6.The HD is new they will be improving over time. Once again 499.00 or 2200.00 no brainer! Get the HD and put a Pitch Factor pedal in the loop case closed! And still under a grand...