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4868 Views 56 Replies Latest reply: Jan 24, 2013 1:16 PM by bartpuglise RSS
Lespaulidas Just Startin'
Lespaulidas
145 posts since
Sep 5, 2009
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Apr 6, 2011 10:48 AM

DR Z AirBrake + DT50 + HD500  = sweetness

Just thought I'd let you all know about the DR Z AirBrake Attenuator and the DT50 w/ the HD500.

http://www.drzamps.com/products/z_air_brake.html

 

I tried this out yesterday, and it works beautifully.    I can have my DT on full power mode, with pres on the HD500, pushing the tubes, and play as low as a bedroom level real nicely.   Man oh man what sweet tone goodness I get out at any level.  Especially true for the hi gain models.

 

Don't get me wrong, the low power mode with the modeling was nice, and useable, but this setup with the airbrake produces incredible goodness in the tone at ANY DB level!  Loving my rig now more than ever.  The best thing about the airbrake, is no power is required to the unit.

 

Hope this helps anyone who's thought of trying this.

  • arcticman Just Startin'
    arcticman
    114 posts since
    Feb 6, 2007
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    Apr 6, 2011 7:05 PM (in response to Lespaulidas)
    Re: DR Z AirBrake + DT50 + HD500  = sweetness

    Happy to hear it works so well... I've considered adding a Dr Z AB too, thought it might be the way to go for recording at lower levels.

     

    At what level are you running the DT50 master volume?

     

    Can you describe the difference in tone between the Full models and pre models with the Z?

     

    Is there a concern with prematurely burning out the tubes when using a power attenuator like the Z?

     

    Cheers

    • Lespaulidas Just Startin'
      Lespaulidas
      145 posts since
      Sep 5, 2009
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      Apr 7, 2011 7:16 AM (in response to arcticman)
      Re: DR Z AirBrake + DT50 + HD500  = sweetness

      Hello Articman,

       

      I'm running the master volume at about 2-3 o'clock.  As far as the difference in tone between the Pre's and Full's.  It's the difference you'd expect.  I tend to use more of the Pre's which suit my tastes (park is one of my favs).  But to absolutely honest I haven't yet spent a ton of time analyzing Pre's versus fulls with the Dr Z AB yet.   I also really haven't had alot of time to sit for a few hours and recreate my patches with the z in mind, but have just spent time trying a few amps, and I end up loving the tone quickly and getting lost jammin for an hour, LMAO.

       

      My understanding about tube life, is related to how hard you push the master, but I'm far from being an expert on this.   I would guess with it sitting on 2-3 oclock would be ok.

       

      I'll try and report more when I have more time to spend with it.

      • arcticman Just Startin'
        arcticman
        114 posts since
        Feb 6, 2007
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        Apr 7, 2011 10:11 AM (in response to Lespaulidas)
        Re: DR Z AirBrake + DT50 + HD500  = sweetness

        Thanks for the feedback Les.

         

        I didn't word my question right. What I'm most curious about is the difference in tone between a HD500 patch with a Full amp model no Z vs. same Pre amp model with the Z.

         

        or plugging direct into the DT50 (no HD500) select your favorite Voicing... DT50 master pushed in (full power mode) with the Z  vs.  DT50 master pulled out no Z.

         

        I haven't had my DT50 master any where near 2-3 oclock in full power mode!

         

        Cheers

        • Lespaulidas Just Startin'
          Lespaulidas
          145 posts since
          Sep 5, 2009
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          Apr 7, 2011 10:43 AM (in response to arcticman)
          Re: DR Z AirBrake + DT50 + HD500  = sweetness

          Well I can honestly say that when I saw this video(linked below) , it peaked my interest to try a Dr Z.     Because when I play at home, I have a set of patches with a Full amp model, pull the amp into low power mode, and have the modeling simulate the power tubes being cranked.    When I want to play louder, I really prefer the pre's  and put the dt50 in full power mode.  However in full power mode, I rarely could turn the master up enough to really push the amp. it's freaking loud!  On a few occasions I was able to crank it up, and the DT just sings when pushed.  So I decided to try the Z, to push the DT at lower volumes and keep all my presets the same for playing anywhere (besides a minor on the fly adjustment).    Now I just use the Z volume knob for my Overall Master volume control.  Kind of nice when dialing in your volume when setting up.  Or quick adjustments on the fly, without messing with the DT master.

           

          So here's the vid of guitarplayer.com reviewing the hd/dt combo. You probably saw it already.  This would be the best representative sound comparison for the DT with or without the DR Z .  Note how the reviewer talks about when in full power versus low power modeling.   The low power is definitely great sounding and useable, but the full just is full of richness.  With the Z, the richness is always there, (unless you turn it so low you can barely hear the amp).  Turning the dial on the Z, just increases/decreases db without affecting tone of the amp's master setting.

           

          http://bcove.me/hmtndg38

           

          Maybe that clears up what you're asking?

           

          I know it's a bit pricey, and not necessary for everyone, but I am loving it!

          • arcticman Just Startin'
            arcticman
            114 posts since
            Feb 6, 2007
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            Apr 7, 2011 11:01 AM (in response to Lespaulidas)
            Re: DR Z AirBrake + DT50 + HD500  = sweetness

            Thanks again Les, I may invest in a Z AB... I'm going to wait for the new update and see how the Full models react with the DT50 and the new Sag, Hum, Bias, Bias Excursion and Master Volume controls.

             

            One more question... how hot does the Dr Z get?

             

            Cheers

            • Lespaulidas Just Startin'
              Lespaulidas
              145 posts since
              Sep 5, 2009
              Currently Being Moderated
              Apr 7, 2011 11:12 AM (in response to arcticman)
              Re: DR Z AirBrake + DT50 + HD500  = sweetness

              No problem man.  Yeah I'd actually bought it before the 1.3 announcement.   But anyways, I'll use it on my hot rod deville if I find I dont need it for the DT after firmware changes.   I really like it though on the DT.

               

              As far as heat,  I'm not sure what's happening inside the Z box, but it was just warm to the touch on the outside.  My DT was a little warmer though , but not much.

               

              If you are still interested after 1.3 and want more info, let me know.  I'l have some more experience with it by then as well.

  • roaster Just Startin'
    roaster
    24 posts since
    Aug 6, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 11, 2011 10:13 AM (in response to Lespaulidas)
    Re: DR Z AirBrake + DT50 + HD500  = sweetness

    Wow man how do you get your DT50 running at 2 or 3 o'clock on the master without blowing the windows out, are you turning the HD volume right down?

     

    Thanks

    • Lespaulidas Just Startin'
      Lespaulidas
      145 posts since
      Sep 5, 2009
      Currently Being Moderated
      Apr 11, 2011 10:52 AM (in response to roaster)
      Re: DR Z AirBrake + DT50 + HD500  = sweetness

      By using the AirBrake, which is what the thread is about.  I don't really like to dial the POD way down (via amp channel volume), because then when you download a tone from custom tone or when creating a new one, you get blown away by selecting an amp that has channel volume up.  I prefer to keep levels easily manageable,  as I tend to screw around with new tones alot.   I can;t stand getting my ear drums blown when switching between patches or trying new amps, or custom tones. 

       

      So with the airbrake, the DT master volume can be where you want it to be, and then you adjust the airbrake dial to bring volume down to the amp's speaker.  The airbrake sits between the DT head's speaker out, and the speaker itself.  It attenuates the signal to bring DB down in the speaker only.  Therefore the DT's REAL tubes are saturated (correct term?) , and you get killer killer tone, from bedroom levels up to gig levels.

       

      I'm no airbrake salesman, or pro engineer, just a guy who loves to play, and happened to stumble on the airbrake, and love it!  It's really a great idea for any loud amp you have.  I also have a Fender  Hot Rod Deville, that has a fantastic tone when the master is pushed , but it was ALWAYS too loud, so I'd turn it down and never push the tubes, and lose the creamy tube tone.  Now with the airbrake it's useable again at any level!

      • JB1973 Just Startin'
        JB1973
        604 posts since
        Apr 19, 2008
        Currently Being Moderated
        May 10, 2011 3:29 PM (in response to Lespaulidas)
        Re: DR Z AirBrake + DT50 + HD500  = sweetness

        any chance you could post like some comparison clips of the tone? I have personally started using full models but with the volume pushed in, after seeing it done on youtube. I prefer it over pulling the knob out. It also allows me to take the same tones to a PA or record, instead of multiple settings for one tone. But the better the sound the better .......is there youtube clips of someone using it with a dt50? I have not seen it as of yet.

         

        thanks

        jb

        • Lespaulidas Just Startin'
          Lespaulidas
          145 posts since
          Sep 5, 2009
          Currently Being Moderated
          May 17, 2011 10:41 AM (in response to JB1973)
          Re: DR Z AirBrake + DT50 + HD500  = sweetness

          Hi JB,

           

          Unfortunetly I do not have any video or sound files.

           

          All I can say is it sounds freaking incredible!  As I said I run the master on full power about 1-2 o'clock, and attenuate the voluem to the speaker with the dial on the Dr Z to achieve gig volume or beadroom volume.  The tone pretty much stays the same besides the fletcher-munson stuff,  which makes it easy to use only one set of patches for any volume.   Its nice to drive the DT50 power amp.  All the PRE amps models in the HD500 sounds great like this, especially with the 1.31 update, they sound even better now.

           

          You will not be sorry about the Dr Z Airbrake investment.  It truly puts the DT50 / HD500 rig over the top IMO.

          • JB1973 Just Startin'
            JB1973
            604 posts since
            Apr 19, 2008
            Currently Being Moderated
            Jul 14, 2011 6:28 AM (in response to Lespaulidas)
            Re: DR Z AirBrake + DT50 + HD500  = sweetness

            Any luck reducing the master volume parameter from the new update in the hd500 to get a similar effect?

          • bartpuglise Just Startin'
            bartpuglise
            104 posts since
            Mar 16, 2006
            Currently Being Moderated
            Aug 14, 2011 8:55 AM (in response to Lespaulidas)
            Re: DR Z AirBrake + DT50 + HD500  = sweetness

            I stumbled upon your post after recently posting a duplicate question. I have a DT50 head with a Avatar 2x12 cab at 4ohms. I have a pod HD500 and just picked up an AirBrake. I run all my patches based on pre amp models as I play out often. I just hooked up the airbrake yesterday and I am not noticing much of a volume difference. I was wondering what your pod settings and dt50 master settings are. I'm also using the L6 link.

            • Lespaulidas Just Startin'
              Lespaulidas
              145 posts since
              Sep 5, 2009
              Currently Being Moderated
              Aug 14, 2011 3:30 PM (in response to bartpuglise)
              Re: DR Z AirBrake + DT50 + HD500  = sweetness

              I'm running hd500 with Line 6 link connection to my dt50 212.  I have the airbrake sitting between the 16ohm out and the stock speakers.  My dt50 master sits between 12-2 o'clock depending how quiet I need to be.  Channel volume varies on the amp I'm using.  At home I have the airbrake attenuation set at 'bedroom' level.  And on my airbrake there's a fine adjustment for bedroom level, that's set to 'max'.   These settings work great for home.  My baby can sleep down the hall no problem.  When playing out or with a band, I simply turn the attenuation dial on the airbrake to 0,1,2, or 3 depending what volume I need.

               

              There's a huge difference in volume on my rig with the airbrake attenuation on.   It sounds like something may be wrong with yours. If I removed mine while at home and didn't adjust the master, I'd break windows, nevermind wake our sleeping baby. 

               

              Also I've been using the airbrake for quite a while now with the above settings and my tubes are still nice, and everything's works like a charm!

              • bartpuglise Just Startin'
                bartpuglise
                104 posts since
                Mar 16, 2006
                Currently Being Moderated
                Aug 14, 2011 6:09 PM (in response to Lespaulidas)
                Re: DR Z AirBrake + DT50 + HD500  = sweetness

                Hey thanks,

                 

                I did get it to work properly Just had to mess around with the HD500 a bit. It does sound great cant wait to use it at next band rehearsal. Thanks for the response. I'm planning on continuing to use the pre-amp models as they sound the best on the DT50

                • Lespaulidas Just Startin'
                  Lespaulidas
                  145 posts since
                  Sep 5, 2009
                  Currently Being Moderated
                  Aug 15, 2011 10:57 AM (in response to bartpuglise)
                  Re: DR Z AirBrake + DT50 + HD500  = sweetness

                  I'm glad you got it to work!   I forgot to mention, I also use only PRE models as well.  They sound great with that master cranked...

                • JB1973 Just Startin'
                  JB1973
                  604 posts since
                  Apr 19, 2008
                  Currently Being Moderated
                  Aug 16, 2011 6:40 PM (in response to bartpuglise)
                  Re: DR Z AirBrake + DT50 + HD500  = sweetness

                  let us know how the band practice goes, comparing the sound with and without!

                   

                  thx

                  • JB1973 Just Startin'
                    JB1973
                    604 posts since
                    Apr 19, 2008
                    Currently Being Moderated
                    Aug 16, 2011 7:24 PM (in response to JB1973)
                    Re: DR Z AirBrake + DT50 + HD500  = sweetness

                    went back and watching the youtube vids on it again and the thing that always gets me is I can't hear a difference in volume when they change it, lol

                     

                    i am using the hd500 + dt50 l6 link'd with full models and full power amp with the amp on like 1 or 2 playing by myself and maybe 3 with band. And it sounds good, like a cranked tube amp. So I would jump on board but since I can't try one out its very hard to do so.... I need to hear a difference somewhere, any links or something I could check out?

                    • Lespaulidas Just Startin'
                      Lespaulidas
                      145 posts since
                      Sep 5, 2009
                      Currently Being Moderated
                      Aug 17, 2011 6:38 AM (in response to JB1973)
                      Re: DR Z AirBrake + DT50 + HD500  = sweetness

                      Hi JB,

                       

                      I dont have any sample audio to show you that would demonstrat that, maybe BART can provide.   Its kind of hard to demonstrate the volume difference anyhow without being in the room in my opinion to really feel it.  All I can tell you on the max attenuation setting, I have the amp master on 2 O'clock and a TREADPLATE PRE model at about 11-12 oclock(I think - not in front of it now), and I can play at home like I said with a 6 month year old sleeping 20 feet away without disturbing her.  All the while having creamy tubeness generated by the amp as you'd expect.   And of course when you need to be louder, just turn the dial on the AIRBRAKE anywhere from the lowest setting I mentioned above up to no attenuation at all(VERY LOUD).   

                       

                      BART - would you say thats an accurate description?

                  • bartpuglise Just Startin'
                    bartpuglise
                    104 posts since
                    Mar 16, 2006
                    Currently Being Moderated
                    Aug 17, 2011 4:51 AM (in response to JB1973)
                    Re: DR Z AirBrake + DT50 + HD500  = sweetness

                    Okay so rehearsal went well last nite. Although I have over 35 patches on my HD500 some of those will need to be tweaked due to volume differences. I'm not sure if the Airbrake affected this but it's a minor issue. I'd recommend anyone who owns the DT50 to splurge on the Airbrake. I wish I had one 25 yrs ago when I had my Marshall stack. Probably would have avoided "You're too Fu**ing loud" comments from bandmates LOL!!

  • BMoe Just Startin'
    BMoe
    62 posts since
    Feb 7, 2010
    Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 22, 2011 11:09 AM (in response to Lespaulidas)
    Re: DR Z AirBrake + DT50 + HD500  = sweetness

    LesPaulidas,

     

    Maybe I don't understand how the AirBrake works, but will it clamp the overall volume

    coming out to the speakers, even if you add a "Screamer" to the HD500 preset?

    Another way of saying what I am trying to say is does the volume stay at one level

    with an attenuator?

    Just curious what will happen when playing clubs and such, if you will still punch through the band mix

    will with a lead by stomping a "Screamer" pedal on the HD500? As opposed to adjusting

    the attenuator to get more volume.

     

     

    Thanks for your reply in advance.

     

    BMoe

    • Lespaulidas Just Startin'
      Lespaulidas
      145 posts since
      Sep 5, 2009
      Currently Being Moderated
      Aug 22, 2011 11:21 AM (in response to BMoe)
      Re: DR Z AirBrake + DT50 + HD500  = sweetness

      It "attenuates" (lowers) the volume being sent to the speaker.  It sits between the amp head and the physical speaker.  It allows you to turn up your master volume (on the amp) to drive the "real" tubes without having to have extremely high volume.

       

      For me, with the DT50 and HD500, its nice because I can run all the SAME amp models (on HD500 - mostly PRE's) for loud live band use, AND low volume home practicing. In either situation the tubes are driven nicely and sing no matter what volume.  And the fact I use all the same patches for either scenario makes it worth it to me so I dont have to have a second set of patches to maintain just for low volume.  I also use the airbrake on other amps I own, which made them come to life in low volume scenarios.

       

      About the "Screamer" question.  It's all relative. If your screamer raised your volume with no attenuator, and you put a attenuator in the mix, the volume will still raise when you stomp the screamer on relative to your baseline volume which the dial on the airbrake adjusts.   Get it now?

      • JB1973 Just Startin'
        JB1973
        604 posts since
        Apr 19, 2008
        Currently Being Moderated
        Aug 23, 2011 10:56 AM (in response to Lespaulidas)
        Re: DR Z AirBrake + DT50 + HD500  = sweetness

        I am getting decent tone I think through the hd500 full models  with dt50 set on full power just on enough to really kick in the speakers. Even better a hair above that but that is getting into turn it down areas. I have been curious about lowering the master on the full models (option in the amp menu) then turning up the amp, but not sure what this would be actually doing.

        My other guitarist is more of a purist, prefers small tube amps so he can rev up the tubes without it being to loud. He emailed me today, we have been talking about pc based sims like amplitude and podfarm, just for kicks (he uses amplitude at home because he lives in an apartment atm) ... He basically said that in his opinion I could get as good or better sound out of amplitude than my $2000 rig and he would be happy to help me find good tones for recording but he didn't know what to do about live work. I have never heard any complaints only compliments about my tone before this so not sure what to think. Its true I would be happy with a small boutique tube amp and a nice pedal board but i like my rig for the range of tones and recording. Not to mention I can't afford to bail on my rig as I would lose my pants selling it on eBay to buy a new rig....

        Anyway I am looking for a used attenuator and leaning towards the weber mass attenuator as it is based off a speaker motor rather than diodes and it should be a bit cheaper as well. Any thoughts?

      • BMoe Just Startin'
        BMoe
        62 posts since
        Feb 7, 2010
        Currently Being Moderated
        Aug 23, 2011 2:21 PM (in response to Lespaulidas)
        Re: DR Z AirBrake + DT50 + HD500  = sweetness

        Yupper, Thanks

        • JB1973 Just Startin'
          JB1973
          604 posts since
          Apr 19, 2008
          Currently Being Moderated
          Aug 24, 2011 7:12 PM (in response to BMoe)
          Re: DR Z AirBrake + DT50 + HD500  = sweetness

          I am looking into finding a used attenuator. I bid on a weber mass III and didn't get it. I have been really considering buying a small tube amp (10-20 watts?) getting some boutique pedals and learning how to mic and record instead of going digital. Today I tried out a fender deluxe reverb reissue 22 watts and it was pretty dang loud there is no drive channel so drive it to starting to break up and use pedals for distortion i guess. It definitely had some character (for lack of a better word) then I am used to hearing at home.

          Tonight in my 30 minutes of play time I tried running the hd500 as a effect pedal direct plug into the front of the amp and driving the amp higher as it was much quiter with no preamp model. In truth the amp had a bit of life I don't think I have found running full models. I will have to investigate this further when I have time.

  • Poguie Just Startin'
    Poguie
    12 posts since
    Jun 27, 2009
    Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 3, 2012 9:38 PM (in response to Lespaulidas)
    Re: DR Z AirBrake + DT50 + HD500  = sweetness

    I'm gonna get one after reading your review. I live in an apartment and my Spider Valve MkII can't be cranked as the neighbours would be beating our door down. Sounds like just the job. Cheers for that.

  • STPLE Just Startin'
    STPLE
    47 posts since
    Feb 21, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 19, 2013 11:20 AM (in response to Lespaulidas)
    Re: DR Z AirBrake + DT50 + HD500  = sweetness

    I'm considering getting the Dr. Z air brake.  I have a Pod HD 500 and DT25 head and cab (Line6 Link).  I've been working on patches.  I haven't used the DT25 live yet (POD HD I've used live several times to a PA).  Before I get the air brake I wanted to make sure that it is a good tool to work on patches at low volumes.  I can't crank the amp with children sleeping late at night.  I don't plan to use the air brake live but I want the patches to be as accurate as possible.  It sounds like it would really help.  Is this a good tool for low volume tone/patch work??

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