Sorry to read about your Vetta. I hope it gets fixed properly this time.
Now onto your question. I have BOTH set ups and I run them all as one massive wall of sound system since they are VERY different from each other in how they function and how they sound, plus you are trading 16/20 amps from the 80 you've gotten used to. The POD HD does not come with any pre-made acoustic amp models. I've made one that works very well and is posted on Vettaville as well as in the list of sounds in this website.
I also "complained" that the DT50 2x12 was too darn loud for any practical use in a live performance unless you play in very large places or where no one cares how loud you are. This is said after trying the "low power" mode on the amps and not being happy with the performance until you crank the volume up. I think the company finally got the hint since they've released 25 watt versions of this series of amps. But I do not know what you need for stage volume. Also - you are not just trading a two-piece system for an all-in-one unit like the Vetta, but you are trading Stereo for mono unless you buy two DT50 amps no matter what the wattage. This might also not be a big deal for you, but I thought I'd mention it as it seems most do think it is just two-piece tube system with an external brain, vs the Vetta. It's not that simple and much more complicated to get the sounds you are used to from the Vetta.
Honestly - if you are just waiting for your Vetta to be repaired - I'd suggest getting the POD HD500, learn how it works, then just connect it to either a solid state or all tube STEREO power amp into a 4x12 stereo cabinet which is what you seem to have now. Or your thought of getting a "new" Vetta might be simplest since all you'd have to do is download the firmware upgrade if not there and then download all your sounds. that would be the fastest and simplest way to get back up and running if you are pressed for time. The learning curve of the POD HD series, plus the DT50 amps combination is quite extensive to get it right.
I hope this info helps you out in making a decision.
Thanks for your quick response.
Interesting that you found DT50 too loud... That's actually quite encouraging!
Also take your point about the extra options on vetta re Stereo etc. That's one of the things about vetta - you have this strangely comforting feeling that it can do almost anything! ...but... I rarely use it's full potential. Although I use two amp models on each preset, they're mostly duplicated and I don't really use it for genuine stereo output (although it's nice to know it's there)!
Therefore I suspect that the superior quality(?) of the DT50+Pod HD set up will be a bigger benefit than the 60 additional amps available in vetta. Plus although DT50 can't do stereo without a second amp, you can still run two amp models into it from pod, right? Did you find this effective and would it be problematic to mix topologies in that case?
I think I'm right in saying that without a second cab, the vetta is only "pretend" stereo in a live environment right?
I'm going to try the DT50 rig tomorrow afternoon... Buti know what you mean re: vetta - it's nice to know that it *can* do almost anything... And I've discovered the hard way that you really don't know what you've got till it's gone.
Any other thoughts/comments/experience/help/advice welcome!
I wished you had given a name other than your ID, but in either case - Greetings again.
If loud on stage is a positive thing for you - then by all means get the DT50 2x12. I'm American so forgive the measurements in our weight style. The 2x12 amp weighs 86 pounds and although Line 6 put a handle for carrying, it's only a matter of time before that strap or the screws holding it give out due to the weight although I do not think that would happen in a week or two. The other thing is if you have a road case for your Vetta - the DT50 will not fit. It's a fair amount deeper and a minor bit shorter. Just throwing these small bits out there in case they do relate to your situation or planning.
The answers to your questions in no specific order are as follows...
1) Yes the Vetta IS TRUE STEREO unless you choose to run everything equal on both sides when designing your patches. If you run it with a 4x12 cab like a Marshall 1960A that cab is designed for mono or stereo use and is a perfect match for the Vetta. And the Celestion 75 in that cab give a bit warmer sound than the custom 90s that come with the Vetta for no other reason than those 90s could handle the max power output of the amp although I can't think of one person who ever runs that amp in full power mode plus even come close to pushing the max 300 watts. More people than not do exactly what you mentioned by effectively running the amp in mono or simply doubling the amp amp patch to thicken the basic sound, or as a lead/rhythm type of set up. The Vetta can do so much more than that it's a shame you & I could not spend some time together and take one of my "Advanced master classes on how to get the most from a Vetta". I've been thinking of doing these in a video format for sale, but now with all the new gear coming out, it might be a waste of time. Also solid state power HAS TO BE much greater than tube power because of the RMS rating. Believe me the DT50 2x12 is so much louder in real life than the 50w rating implies.
2) The "superior quality" of the POD HD500?? Honestly, that is very subjective. In my position as a long time Line 6 exclusive equipment user for guitar since 2003, and even with the updates to the software relating to the Fender and Vox amps, it still is not nearly as flexible. Others will disagree with me on this point, but that's the world of music isn't it? And yes, I have been using the Variax guitars since 2006 in conjuction with my Vetta I bought new back in 2003. Just those two inventions by Line 6 have changed my guitar playing forever and have given me so much more to choose from playing in several cover bands playing everything from Metal to rock to even country. I stopped having to bring a ton of guitars and huge FX pedal board since these terrific pieces of guitar technology were introduced by Line 6.
3) Running two different amps from the POD HD will NOT act the same as the Vetta does. The iLink is designed to DEFAULT to amp 1 when more than one are designed on the POD HD. You can not get any DT amp to emulate more than ONE topology at a time. Since the DT amps LITERALLY rewire themselves to one of four possible topologies, you can't expect the true sound of both a Fender plus a Marshall, or a Marshall and a Mesa to "blend" as they do with the Vetta. You will get ONE topology with one DT50. I suggest you run through each amp and note which amps use the same topologies when creating dual amp front ends on the POD HD. This will be a big help in getting the single amp to respond as if it were two amps.
4) Nearly NONE of the amps preprogrammed into the POD HD use the Triode pre-section and/or the Class A output section. Also - the factory patches really are lame. If you are going to try this set up out at a store, please ask them first if you can start with a blank page in the USER section, then also ask them if you can turn the amp up to the volume you intend to play on stage. You will find that the low power setting does not do much in "helping" your sound perform better (my opinion again after much testing), and also the tubes will not start sounding like tubes until you get that volume knob (master and channel) to at least the 12 o'clock position. This WILL BE REALLY REALLY LOUD, but will kick some big time a$$. Can you play on stage at that volume or even set up patches you need at that volume before your next performance?
5) - Please keep in mind that you will NOT be able to run some of the FX togther with other FX as they will "EXCEED MEMORY LIMITATIONS". This is the message you'll see if you try to use the Smart-Harmony with the Tri-Phaser for example. These are just other things Vetta owners never had to think about the POD HD users do havew to think about.
6) Other options...
- Get a 1x12 DT50 which is much more manageable volume-wise.
- If $$ allow, get TWO DT25 that just came out or two DT50s if you really still need all that volume. Payment plan perhaps??
- Try just using the POD HD direct into the PA for the true sound of both amps being created by you, then do as suggested before - get a simple stereo power amp for any stage cabs you might need or want to have. You can hook up both with putting a single mic in front of anything since the modeled sound coming out the of the POD HD is truly excellent - even if very limited.
- How about going to POD FARM on an inexpensive laptop that is not running anything else? You CAN get all the features of the Vetta PLUS some of the new features of the POD HD, and you have the choice of running direct to PA, or PA and stage amp/monitor. The other extra pieces of gear you would need is the FBV Shortboard MKII and the appropriate cables to connect the pedalboard to the laptop and your guitar input to the laptop using one of the Toneport interfaces Line 6 offers. If you choose this method, I would strongly suggest getting the top of the line Toneport UX8 because it will come in handy for any live or studio recordings you might wish to do without changing your setup.
Yep - not as simple as it seems, but at least I know I've given you all the options, plus all the bits of info Line 6 never tells anyone. Me? I use all of the options I've described as my profile photo shows, and I do use POD FARM & UX8 at home, but have used it on stage when my gear went down.
Best of luck and I hope I did not give you a headache. :-)
Thanks again Neal.
It really is great to get your opinions as you've obviously used these set ups a lot.
2 x DT25 is a very interesting idea. I guess that gives you scalability and flexability depending on the size of the gig... Assuming DT is the way to go.
If you had a pair running, could you get the separate topologies working in the dual tone Set up? ie does that get around the limitations you mentioned or is the L6 link limited to only being able to instruct both DTs to go to the one setting?
Presumably 2x DT25s would get me close to the power/sound of a DT50 also?
Maybe I'll ask to try also...
Also, would it be possible to run a vetta almost as a pod with all it's amp models etc into the DT?
Hi Adam - thanks for signing your name so I can address you properly. :-)
You're very welcome for the various - though long-winded - suggestions/answers to your upcoming equipment decisions.
1) Yes having (2) of any DT50 models would give you TRUE STEREO and each amp would respond to whatever you created on the POD HD. Amp 1 is simply the first amp in the iLink chain, then 2, 3, 4. Also - something NOT mentioned by Line 6 unless asked and NOT KNOWN by any of the retailers. If you do choose the POD HD and any DT amp - PLEASE DO NOT USE basic microphone XLR cable. You MUST USE 3-pin DMX cable which looks identical, but they are VERY different electronically. Use mic XLR cable ONLY in a pinch, but NOT on a regular basis!! Very important!!
2) would (20 25s double the power to equal (1) 50...not really as that would require me to type out a long math equation to explain why. BUT the simpler answer is that you might not be LOUDER by using (2) 25s, BUT you will be FULLER SOUNDING by not only having the stereo ability, but you'll be pushing more air. Even if they are side by side like in my photo - it IS different than having a 2x12 using two 1x12s.
Also - The DT amps in my photo are 50s as they had not yet released the 25s (I would have elected those instead of the 50s), BUT I've found that through a bunch of trial and error, testing, etc. I AM ABLE to get both DT50s to run in full power mode for all patches along with my Vetta and NOT be very loud on stage. There's much more to this - but the amps are set at 12 o'clock on each channel, and the master volumes at 9 o'clock. With how I set up my POD HD500, I got these to work with excellent tone and not kill people with staggering volume. However, the tubes DO have to get hit with some decent amount of current into the power section to get that full bodied, tone intensive all tube sound. Shorter version - it can be done with 2x12's and the latest software for each DT50 1x12, but I still will not recommend it unless loud stage volume is do-able in someone's stage situation.
3) YES - if the preamp section of your Vetta is working perfectly, you can use the power section of the DT amps. HOWEVER< unless you run the pre outs of your Vetta into the INPUT you will not get the same response. You CAN plug into the FX Return and at least you can get the Class A/B - Class A power section to respond, BUT all switching would be MANUAL as ONLY a POD HD pedalboard at this time will work the modes externally. MIDI DOES NOT WORK for mode changes.
These might be the answers you hoped for, but they are accurate.
You seem very adamant about the DMX vs XLR issue.
This is concerning because in Line 6's description of L6 Link on the website, they say it's a standard XLR and recommend one particular mic cable...
I'm keen to observe your warning - but why is it? And surely L6 need to address this if it's an issue?
I tried the Pod HD 500 and the DT50 Head into my Spider 412 cab.
I reckon it's plenty loud enough for my purposes and sounded good.
The Pod HD will take some getting used to as it's not as obvious as the Vetta for editing in my opinion - although I'll be sure to try the edit software for it.
I also tried the DT25 Combo which I thought was a really lovely piece of kit. I also tried it through my 412 cab - sounded very good. But I couldn't be sure it was quite powerful enough without testing it whilst stood next to a rock-beast drummer.
Therefore I think I'll go for the DT50, but I might just find out about the combo versions rather than the head. I really liked the idea of the flexability of either running the combo on it's own for smaller gigs, or through the 412 cab at larger gigs.
Glad you gave it a try and I hope you will learn the POD HD in time to start doing gigs with it and the DT50.
I'm very surprised that you're not sure if the 25 would be loud enough and the 50 just might be loud enough. The 50 should have rattled the walls where ever you were trying it out. Mine do if I turn them up to even half of full volume in full power mode.