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1503 Views 15 Replies Latest reply: Dec 2, 2011 5:24 PM by wolbai RSS
Icewind Just Startin'
Icewind
230 posts since
Jul 7, 2008
Currently Being Moderated

Nov 9, 2011 12:17 PM

HD500 pre models automatically switch to full when DT25 put in Low Volume Mode?

This has been addressed a couple of times informally in other threads (thanks, Zap), but I was hoping someone could point me to the "official" documentation for this.

 

I created a setlist of 22 patches on my HD500, each having only a volume pedal and the pre for each amp model (and the default cabs).  I use L6 Link to connect to my DT25.

 

What I'm understanding through reading some other threads is that when I switch my DT25 to Low Volume Mode (which I'm assuming here is the same as the knob-pulling Low Power Mode on the DT50) that my HD500 should automatically switch from the pre models to the full amp models, but that there won't be any visual indication on the HD500 that this is happening.  Is this correct?

  • hollis1003 Iknowathingortwo
    hollis1003
    342 posts since
    Feb 6, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 9, 2011 2:01 PM (in response to Icewind)
    Re: HD500 pre models automatically switch to full when DT25 put in Low Volume Mode?

    I don't have the DT-25, I have the DT-50 HD but it doesn't matter.

     

    When you pull the knob on the DT amp it does nothing to the POD HD.  There is internal circuitry in the DT that adds power amp "flavor" and lowers the amp to half wattage.

     

    I doubt there is official documentation on this as there is very little "official" documentation about alot of things seen here on the forum.  For example, what are the amp models in the DT that correspond in the POD?  We have a good idea about what they are, but now we have amps that have a bright and a normal channel.  Also, is there speaker emulation going on in the DT amp models?  Again we can only assume.

     

    Don't hold your breath waiting for an "official" answer.

  • Icewind Just Startin'
    Icewind
    230 posts since
    Jul 7, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 9, 2011 5:29 PM (in response to Icewind)
    Re: HD500 pre models automatically switch to full when DT25 put in Low Volume Mode?

    Ok.  I just confirmed that it does NOT work this way.  As hollis1003 stated, nothing happens to the HD.  If I'm on a preamp model setting with the DT25 on Low Volume mode, the sound is sorta weak as I'd expect from just a preamp, and then when I change to the full amp model of that same amp, there's a huge difference and the "break up" of the full amp is evident.

     

    So in my case, for nothing else but the amps, I have to have a whole new setlist with all 22 FULL amp patches.

  • TheRealZap Expert Line 6 User
    TheRealZap
    11,829 posts since
    Dec 22, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 9, 2011 5:35 PM (in response to Icewind)
    Re: HD500 pre models automatically switch to full when DT25 put in Low Volume Mode?

    there really isn't any official documentation of this, and it for SURE will not affect the HD in any way... the HD won't know the difference... the amp makes this change internally... i know this from the DT50 beta so i'm certain of this.

    none of it matters though if you aren't liking what you are hearing anyway.

    • Icewind Just Startin'
      Icewind
      230 posts since
      Jul 7, 2008
      Currently Being Moderated
      Nov 9, 2011 6:19 PM (in response to TheRealZap)
      Re: HD500 pre models automatically switch to full when DT25 put in Low Volume Mode?

      TheRealZap wrote:

       

      there really isn't any official documentation of this, and it for SURE will not affect the HD in any way... the HD won't know the difference... the amp makes this change internally... i know this from the DT50 beta so i'm certain of this.

      none of it matters though if you aren't liking what you are hearing anyway.

      Well, it's not really about like/dislike at all.  In Low Volume mode, you can switch between the pre and full versions of any amp and clearly hear the difference.  Unless the DT25 is stacking another amp on top of the HD500's amp (full FULL mode? ).  Or maybe the 25 and the 50 handle this differently.

  • spaceatl Expert Line 6 User
    spaceatl
    4,456 posts since
    Jan 24, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 9, 2011 9:23 PM (in response to Icewind)
    Re: HD500 pre models automatically switch to full when DT25 put in Low Volume Mode?

    I think maybe there is some confusion here...I don't have an HD500....I have an HD Bean. The only HD POD that I have that has a system link is the HD400...I have a DT50 112 and a DT25 head and cabinet...

     

    When using the DT50 or DR25 alone, indeed the internal modeling of the amplifier will use PRE models in full power mode and FULL models when in half power mode. The patches in the HD400 do NOT change based on the power mode setting of the DT50 or DT25...I have separate patches for low power mode and full power mode and they follow the general advice of using PRE models for full power amp FULL models for low power mode...

     

    The notion of the FULL or PRE model in the DT50 following the power mode of the amp only applies when the amp model in the HD is disabled. At that point, you would be using Channel B on the DT amplifier and what ever the model that is being used will be determined by the NFL setting and the power mode would what is being used (ie: A FULL Treadplate model for NFL4 full power; PRE Treadplate model for NFL4 low power mode)....I suspect this is also true for the HD500...

     

    I don't really see how the HD500 would switch the amp model for you...the channel volume potentials a very different between the PRE and FULL versions...Again, I don't have an HD500 or HDPro to check this...I know the HD400 does not do this and the HD Bean has no link...

     

    I have use the HD bean with the DT50 and DT25 in a couple of configurations. I have a 4CM setlist where I use the DT amp channels and the HD bean is FX only...Left chain in front of the amp and right chain in the FX loop...That is quite tricky to balance but works quite well for some of the things I do...Right now I am doing the power amp in using both the DT25 and DT50 in a simul-class setup...DT25 is Class AB and DT50 is Class A...I use PRE models and both are running full power (30 watt DT50 and 25 watt DT25)...

     

    I have read on this board where some folks claim that the DT amplifiers will add more power modeling to the tone as the master is turned up in low power mode...not sure what they are talking about...

    • greghall Just Startin'
      greghall
      160 posts since
      Feb 2, 2007
      Currently Being Moderated
      Nov 10, 2011 1:44 AM (in response to spaceatl)
      Re: HD500 pre models automatically switch to full when DT25 put in Low Volume Mode?

      As I understand it, when the DT25 is in low power mode it uses it's own built it power amp / cabinet modelling to 'fill out the tone', regardless of whether an HDxxx is connected with L6 Link or not.

       

      If an HDxxx is connected, then using a FULL model instead of a PRE will layer (double) the power amp / cabinet modeling. I believe the PRE model is recommended for both full and low power modes, but there isn't a right or wrong, just go with what sounds best to you.

       

      I haven't found any official documentation on this (only picked it up from discussions), but the DT25 product features page on the web site says this:

       

      "The tubes distort less in Low Volume mode so the HD modeling technology picks up the slack and fills out the tone with rich power amp modeling so it still sounds like it’s cranked up even at low levels."

      

       

      Regards

      • snooze12 Just Startin'
        snooze12
        30 posts since
        Dec 8, 2009
        Currently Being Moderated
        Nov 15, 2011 1:54 PM (in response to greghall)
        Re: HD500 pre models automatically switch to full when DT25 put in Low Volume Mode?

        I also saw in one of the Line 6 videos that as you increase the master in low power mode, the DSP is giving more place to the output tube. So for sure, the DSP is doing something special to recreate the power section of the amp. I have my DT25 since a few days and didn't played it loud with a band so I wonder if I will have to do another set of patches for full power mode? I tought the low power mode was there to recreate the full power mode in order to avoid this kind of issue!!! I'm using only premodel in all my patches since I have the DT25 because when I'm using the full model, I have to mess with the microphone and I don't like the sound of it. What are you doing in this case? This thread is noted as answered but I think we need more details!

        • Icewind Just Startin'
          Icewind
          230 posts since
          Jul 7, 2008
          Currently Being Moderated
          Nov 15, 2011 2:08 PM (in response to snooze12)
          Re: HD500 pre models automatically switch to full when DT25 put in Low Volume Mode?

          snooze12 wrote:

           

          I also saw in one of the Line 6 videos that as you increase the master in low power mode, the DSP is giving more place to the output tube. So for sure, the DSP is doing something special to recreate the power section of the amp. I have my DT25 since a few days and didn't played it loud with a band so I wonder if I will have to do another set of patches for full power mode? I tought the low power mode was there to recreate the full power mode in order to avoid this kind of issue!!! I'm using only premodel in all my patches since I have the DT25 because when I'm using the full model, I have to mess with the microphone and I don't like the sound of it. What are you doing in this case? This thread is noted as answered but I think we need more details!

           

          I just use the preamp models on full power mode and the fulls on low power mode.  It'd be nice if there were some more concrete documentation on what actually happens with each mode with an HD connected, but in the end I guess we're just going to have to go with our ears. :/

        • greghall Just Startin'
          greghall
          160 posts since
          Feb 2, 2007
          Currently Being Moderated
          Nov 16, 2011 2:39 AM (in response to snooze12)
          Re: HD500 pre models automatically switch to full when DT25 put in Low Volume Mode?

          The approach I've taken is to set up my patches using pre-models in full power, as this is the tone I want when playing live.

           

          I'm not using full models for low power mode, as the amp is already adding some modelling to compensate. It does obviously sound a little different from the full power mode (mainly due to volume and EQ IMO). As I only use low power mode for practising at home, I just make a mental adjustment rather than setting up seperate patches to try and match the sound exactly. Keeps it simple.

           

          I think if you set up your patches using low power mode they are going to sound quite different when you switch to full power in a live setting, whereas doing it the other way around means you get the tone you want when it really matters. Low power mode is then just a bit of a compromise.

           

          Of course, if you want to use low power mode for other purposes (i.e. recording etc), you'll need a different approach.

           

          +1 for going with your ears :-)

           

          Regards

        • tinman1 Just Startin'
          tinman1
          26 posts since
          Jun 1, 2011
          Currently Being Moderated
          Nov 26, 2011 1:17 PM (in response to snooze12)
          Re: HD500 pre models automatically switch to full when DT25 put in Low Volume Mode?

          I've discovered a bit about all of this after some intense trial and error with my DT25/ PODHD300 rig in the past few days.

           

          I'd been looking for a way of "silent" practicing through headphones at night with the amp in low power mode and on standby.

           

          In another related thread I was advised that I should use the FULL rather than preamp versions of my POD HDpresets with this setup as the DT25 was no longer colouring the sound when on standby/ low power mode. I was therefore advised to recreate a different set of patches in FULL mode (in which case I might as well switch the amp off). I've since worked out that this is not necessary and there is definately a poweramp stage "effect" from the amp in low power mode. This fits with some of the answers above.

           

          How much of the poweramp effect is modelling and how much is "analogue" using the amps tubes I don't know but what I'm hearing through my headphones is very close to what I hear with the amp sounding live in full power mode (and with no change to the PODs preamp preset). As snooze12 points out, it would be very frustrating to have to have a full alternate set of patches for playing live and practicing at low volume.

           

          Clearly, it would be possible to switch the DT off and play through headphones direct from the PODHD but this would necessitate FULL versions of the presets with no poweramp effect from the amp.

           

          If anyone is interested in how I'm set up to practice through headphones (also possible to record direct to a computer this way with appropriate software), here is my rig for silent practice:

           

          Guitar-

          PODHD300-

          DT25 via L6 Link-

          (DT25 on standby in low power mode)

          DT25 direct out via XLR into microphone input of Line 6 UX1-

          Headphones into UX1-

          Gearbox booted up on laptop with input set to "microphone" and all amps/ effects switched off on the software.

           

          As I say, this gives me the closest I can get to the amps full live sound "silently" via headphones and can also be used for recording.

  • wolbai Just Startin'
    wolbai
    177 posts since
    Mar 30, 2010
    Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 29, 2011 11:23 AM (in response to Icewind)
    Re: HD500 pre models automatically switch to full when DT25 put in Low Volume Mode?

    There is a noticeable difference in sound using pre amp / full amp models respectively using low power mode / full power mode. I think that is for must of us the common sense.

     

    Now the questions is: how to deal with the different volume level requirements?

     

    I gave up maintaining 2 sets of presets for each mode (one with pre amp models, one with full amp models), cause that is just to complicated for me. As a Cover Rock musician I sometimes use up to 3 presets per song. Considering future firmware releases of the POD HD / DT50 / JTV  I hate to maintain somewhere around 2 x approx. 90 presets.

     

    As volume control for different locations is a key challenge - most of all for DT50 user like me - and still achieving a tube amp driven (NOT modelling driven) sound as well, I ended up using a power attenuator. The investment is more than justified to me:

     

    - 1 now use ONE set of presets with pre amp models on EVERY volume level I can imagine,

    - with a nearly overall consistent guitar sound.

     

    At the end there are few rules which applies for all. But at least it is good to know the possible options to go.

     

    Regards.

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