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1650 Views 30 Replies Latest reply: Feb 24, 2012 2:44 AM by Tord RSS
gregmusician Just Startin'
gregmusician
9 posts since
Nov 16, 2011
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Dec 5, 2011 3:38 PM

DT50 Too Noisy!

My DT50 212 combo is too noisy!   Does line 6 plan on addressing the issues with it's "Flagship amp"?

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  • hollis1003 Iknowathingortwo
    hollis1003
    342 posts since
    Feb 6, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 5, 2011 3:45 PM (in response to gregmusician)
    Re: DT50 Too Noisy!

    I have a DT-50 HD that I play through a Line 6 4x12 cab.  I was playing it today VERY LOUD and it was not noisy at all.  I use a noise gate when I have the POD HD attached but this was plugging straight into the amp.

     

    There have been other complaints about noisy DT-50s and they have been solved by changing or re-seating the tubes most of the time but there may be other simple solutions.  You should still be in warranty so take it to an authorized shop if you must.

     

    Look for other topics on this forum with the same thing and read through them.  The first thing is to make sure the tubes didn't move during shipping.  Just check them to make sure they are secure.  Then use the pencil test where you lightly tap on the power amp tubes with a pencil while the amp is on to see if they have become microphonic (you shouldn't hear them when you tap).

     

    I hope you find a simple solution.

  • Nick_Mattocks Best of the Best
    Nick_Mattocks
    9,065 posts since
    Mar 26, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 6, 2011 1:22 AM (in response to gregmusician)
    Re: DT50 Too Noisy!

    greg gavin wrote:

     

    My DT50 212 combo is too noisy!   Does line 6 plan on addressing the issues with it's "Flagship amp"?

     

    Can you expand a bit on the type of 'noise'?  Does it hum excessively?  Does it hiss excessively on all or some of the NFL topology settings?  Does it crackle and pop?  Does it thump when changing NFL topologies and Class settings?

     

    +1 to hollis1003

    • gregmusician Just Startin'
      gregmusician
      9 posts since
      Nov 16, 2011
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      Dec 6, 2011 2:01 PM (in response to Nick_Mattocks)
      Re: DT50 Too Noisy!

      Topology #one(1) is the loudest - mostly white noise and quite a bit of hiss- lot's of thumps clicks and pops when used with the pod hd 500 - btw topology 1 is supposed to be a clean fender amp and is far from it!

      Topology 3 is just as noisy which is to mimic "clean class A chime".  -What's odd is voicing 4 which is the

      "High gain " setting is the quietest. -What's happening is when nothing is connected to the amp and the master volume is turned all the way down - the amp has a loud hiss between pink and white noise!

      I've read in some threads that others with DT50  212 combos were having the same problem,

      I was hoping there were some happy endings that others could share.  The amp sounds great when

      using the High gain channel but is too noisy for clean and quiet nuanced playing!

      • Nick_Mattocks Best of the Best
        Nick_Mattocks
        9,065 posts since
        Mar 26, 2007
        Currently Being Moderated
        Dec 7, 2011 12:03 AM (in response to gregmusician)
        Re: DT50 Too Noisy!

        I don't get excessive hiss on my DT-50 212 on NFL 1 or NFL 3, so I would say that this isn't expected behaviour.   Although depending on how you are using it (i.e. with POD HD connected by L6 Link and depending on what your FX and amp modelling signal path looks like you may increase levels of hiss; or in stand alone mode with just a guitar plugged directly in to the amp).  

         

        Make sure you have updated the amp's flash memory to the latest version.  Earlier versions may have behaved slightly differently.

         

        Maybe you would fare better if you swap out the two 12AX7 tubes for new ones if the problem persists after updating the flash memory.

         

        Thumps when changing between different amp models and topologies is normal for a DT-50 due to the fact that high voltages are being changed in real time - it's the physics involved in tube amplification that dictates this with the DT-50.  I have a DT-25 too and this is much quieter in this respect.

         

        Nick

  • Line6david Line 6 Support
    Line6david
    5,196 posts since
    Jan 27, 2010
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 7, 2011 10:42 AM (in response to gregmusician)
    Re: DT50 Too Noisy!

    Hi,

     

    While very few tube amps are "dead quiet" there should not be excessive noise. Can you post a sound clip of the issue?

     

    Thanks,

    David

    Line 6 Customer Support

    • stevekc Just Startin'
      stevekc
      114 posts since
      Feb 7, 2007
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      Dec 7, 2011 10:49 AM (in response to Line6david)
      Re: DT50 Too Noisy!

      My 2 cents -

       

      Review the noise in this DT50 demo video at 4:00 to 4:08

       

    • gregmusician Just Startin'
      gregmusician
      9 posts since
      Nov 16, 2011
      Currently Being Moderated
      Dec 9, 2011 3:58 PM (in response to Line6david)
      Re: DT50 Too Noisy!

      here's a sound sample of the noise!

       

      Message was edited by: greg gavin

      Attachments:
      • spaceatl Expert Line 6 User
        spaceatl
        4,456 posts since
        Jan 24, 2007
        Currently Being Moderated
        Dec 9, 2011 8:49 PM (in response to gregmusician)
        Re: DT50 Too Noisy!

        That does seem a bit noisey...A couple things I can think of to check...

         

        Have you updated the firmware?

        Is the FX Loop return trim on the back centered in the 0 detent? (this is non functional when the link is connected to a POD)

         

        The master volume control on this amp is unlike master volumes of other amplifiers...Class A amplifiers don't have master volumes...That is inherent in how a Class A works...

         

        I think the EH 12AX7s can be pretty noisey...I had a similar hiss in my DT50...However, my V1 was a tad microphonic when the amp arrived so the noise did not really surprise me all that much...I changed out V1 and V2 for Mesa SPAX7...My DT50 is very quiet. That is probably the best noisefloor 12AX7 I have ever tried...I recently swapped out the inverter for a GTSAGAX7 balanced inverter...I can't really tell any difference in the noise floor changing the inverter...So my own opinion is that V1 needs to have a very good quality tube in it...This is not the first time that I have spotted a higher noise floor in an EH 12AX7...Several years ago when the Spider Valve MK1 came out I was an early adopter of the Strymon SVPre...It came with an EH12AX7...Guess what...It was a little noisey...especially using some of the higher gain push modes...I changed it to an SPAX7 and that got the noisefloor where it needed to be...

         

        One quick test your could do is to swap the 12AX7s around...Given how the master volume works I do recomend that you update the firmare if you haven't done that yet...there was a little tweaking on how the master worked and it might be that you amp has the release version which was 1.10 as I recall...I think 1.20 is the current for the DT50...Anyway, ignore that if you have updated....Line 6 warrants the tubes for 90 days...Might be worth trying a new set of 12AX7s...I don't think the EH power tubes are noise prone...I still have the stock power tubes...Tiny bit of quiet hiss...but nothing like I am hearing in your clip...

        • Krontab Just Startin'
          Krontab
          201 posts since
          Mar 15, 2006
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          Dec 24, 2011 3:46 PM (in response to spaceatl)
          Re: DT50 Too Noisy!

          Space,

           

          Rock on! I like this idea. I got the SPAX7 tubes on order. I can't wait to try this with my DT25. The DT25 is very clean to start with but, what the heck if I can get just a little more signal to noise while recording. My home studio is so sound treated that these little things really count.

           

          -Ken

      • Kneehow UberGuru
        Kneehow
        6,750 posts since
        Dec 26, 2007
        Currently Being Moderated
        Dec 13, 2011 3:39 PM (in response to gregmusician)
        Re: DT50 Too Noisy!

        +1 to Space. I'd say try a firmware re-install or perhaps in your case, update (if you haven't done it yet). Also check the FX Loop gain control knob and make sure it's centered.

         

        If you go the level of trying the 12AX7 swap that Space suggested, re-flashed the amp's system software and the issue persists, a trip to the nearest Authorized Line 6 Service Center would be the next step (with a copy of your new product purchase receipt for the Warranty to be valid).

  • whiteop Just Startin'
    whiteop
    415 posts since
    Dec 5, 2009
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    Dec 8, 2011 1:06 PM (in response to gregmusician)
    Re: DT50 Too Noisy!

    Had the same problem and found a fix. Move the cursor until the amp model is highlighted then press ENTER twice quickly and a parameter screen will come up. Change the HUM level to "0". my amp hummed like crazy on high power mode until I figured it out. Who would've thought that any company would have built the hum level into an amp model but Line 6 did!

    • jdolby Just Startin'
      jdolby
      80 posts since
      Jan 24, 2007
      Currently Being Moderated
      Dec 8, 2011 3:01 PM (in response to whiteop)
      Re: DT50 Too Noisy!

      Whiteop, is this possible using only preamp models?  My HD500 feeds my DT50 via the L6 Link and I prefer the preamp models.

       

      JD

    • jdolby Just Startin'
      jdolby
      80 posts since
      Jan 24, 2007
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      Dec 8, 2011 4:27 PM (in response to whiteop)
      Re: DT50 Too Noisy!

      Nevermind!  Tried it for myself and the answer is no.

      • gregmusician Just Startin'
        gregmusician
        9 posts since
        Nov 16, 2011
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        Dec 9, 2011 4:11 PM (in response to jdolby)
        Re: DT50 Too Noisy!

        Still haven't found the answer! probably will take the unit to to an authorized service center!

        Here's a sound sample of the amp noise issue!

         

        Message was edited by: greg gavin

        Attachments:
        • MGblade Just Startin'
          MGblade
          110 posts since
          Dec 5, 2007
          Currently Being Moderated
          Dec 10, 2011 1:35 AM (in response to gregmusician)
          Re: DT50 Too Noisy!

          sounds like you'e at niagra falls,

          take it to a service center

        • Krontab Just Startin'
          Krontab
          201 posts since
          Mar 15, 2006
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          Dec 24, 2011 10:43 AM (in response to gregmusician)
          Re: DT50 Too Noisy!

          Greg,

           

          That sounds like the one I just bought and returned. I worked with the manager at the local Guitar Center and we tried a few in his inventory. They all had a high noise floor. Comparing to the 40W Egnater's and Mesa TA-30 it was slightly louder (expected due to 40W vs 50W). Essentially the noise floor seemed normal for that wattage but, is unacceptable for my recording environment. I switched to the DT25 it still has a little hum but it is barely audible. As it was explained to me, The DT50 is great for gigging and running a loud volume because the noise floor is insignificant at those volumes. The DT25 is built more with the studio in mind as there is no requirement to be as loud this lowers the noise floor and you can play at lower volumes without the hiss. In actuality the ratio of max volume to noise floor is similar on both amps you just become very aware of the DT50's when playing at an "in the house" volume . One thing that did help with the DT50 was running it off of a Furman line conditioner but is was a minor reduction in the hiss.

           

          -Ken

          • gregmusician Just Startin'
            gregmusician
            9 posts since
            Nov 16, 2011
            Currently Being Moderated
            Dec 27, 2011 11:23 PM (in response to Krontab)
            Re: DT50 Too Noisy!

            Thanks for sharing that info- This amp could be a complete game changer if they can solve the noise issue-especially if you interface it with the pod hd's.  I love the over drive tone that you can get with the DT 50, but if the rest of the features are not on the same pro level---  it's like I paid $1300 dollars for an overdrive pedal  -that ain't gonna work!

  • SStiv Just Startin'
    SStiv
    68 posts since
    Feb 22, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 24, 2011 9:46 PM (in response to gregmusician)
    Re: DT50 Too Noisy!

    I had a similar problem. Changing the tubes fixed my problem.

    • gregmusician Just Startin'
      gregmusician
      9 posts since
      Nov 16, 2011
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      Dec 27, 2011 11:31 PM (in response to SStiv)
      Re: DT50 Too Noisy!

      My unit is currently in the shop,- hopefully they can get info from Line 6 and straighten it out! Did you replace both sets of tubes ? What brand and type of tube did you replace them with? I'm considering getting the DT25 and just sticking a mike on it... It's a shame because the overdrive tone on the DT50 is very nice,but I'm playing fusion and funk and need a very versatile amp thats clean when needed I'm running it with the Pod HD 500 and was considering buying the variax to go with everything else-- I was all in but ran into these problems- now I'm apprehensive about Line 6 stuff.  If they can fix this I'm back in!

      • SStiv Just Startin'
        SStiv
        68 posts since
        Feb 22, 2007
        Currently Being Moderated
        Dec 28, 2011 5:16 PM (in response to gregmusician)
        Re: DT50 Too Noisy!

        I put in a pair of Tung-Sol 12AX7 's. Fixed my awful hiss.

      • gregmusician Just Startin'
        gregmusician
        9 posts since
        Nov 16, 2011
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        Jan 17, 2012 1:52 AM (in response to gregmusician)
        Re: DT50 Too Noisy!

        I just got my amp back from Pro Tech repair shop and I'm Happy to report the noise issue has been completely eliminated. The problem was a bad set of pre-amp tubes that came with the unit. The tech said he tried several brands of pre-amp tubes(12AX7) and in this case JJ's worked best!!! Now the amp sounds like the unit I heard on the "Line 6" website as well as several YouTube clips.  I have yet to test it with my pod HD 500 but this puppy has the potential to be a monster/game changer because of it's versatility. The clean voicing is crystal clear and the over drive is still singing and creamy, I'm happy!  It cost close to $100 to repair- :note to Line 6- your subsequent units should be shipped with good tubes-- you almost lost a customer because I thought it was a design flaw due to cutting corners in mass production!  I couldn't believe a set of 12AX7 tubes could make that much of a difference!

        • Tord Just Startin'
          Tord
          8 posts since
          Jun 17, 2007
          Currently Being Moderated
          Jan 17, 2012 9:11 AM (in response to gregmusician)
          Re: DT50 Too Noisy!

          I have  exacty the same issue with my Dt 50, love the sounds but the noise isent so welcome in a recording situation or mic´ed on stage.

          So please can you tell me the exact name and specifications on the new tubes that you put in and if the sound the same minus the noize. i wanna change aswell.

          • gregmusician Just Startin'
            gregmusician
            9 posts since
            Nov 16, 2011
            Currently Being Moderated
            Jan 20, 2012 12:18 AM (in response to Tord)
            Re: DT50 Too Noisy!

            I kid you not - the tech just replaced the pre-amp tubes with two JJ's 12 AX7s!  Obviously all tubes are not created equal because the tech said he tried several brands(Tong sol etc,) but the JJ's worked best in this situation.  The issue is microphonic tubes and some tubes are a lot louder than others,-  increasing your noise floor significantly!  I was fortunate enough to have a tech who was willing to try several tube brands before he settled on the one that worked best,-- that's why you should take yours to a good tech unless you do that type of work yourself!   I hope this helps you!

            • Tord Just Startin'
              Tord
              8 posts since
              Jun 17, 2007
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              Jan 26, 2012 10:33 AM (in response to gregmusician)
              Re: DT50 Too Noisy!

              There is a bounch of different JJ´s 12AX7s So just to buy a pair would be like lottery can you ask your tech please if he still got the specifications on the tubes he put in. That would help a lot.

              Im givin you work here but ill guess there is quite many that have an intresst in this.

              It would be much appricated.

              • guyotron Just Startin'
                guyotron
                4 posts since
                May 4, 2011
                Currently Being Moderated
                Feb 4, 2012 7:31 AM (in response to Tord)
                Re: DT50 Too Noisy!

                This chart  of 12AX7 tube gain and noise references may be useful.

                http://www.tubesandmore.com/scripts/foxweb.dll/extpage@d:/dfs/elevclients/cemirror/ELEVATOR.FXP?page=12AX7CHART

                 

                Seeing as the DT50 ships with Electro-Harmonix 12AX7 tubes, and they're listed in this chart as HIGH gain and HIGH noise, that just might be the logical culprit.

                 

                JJ Gold tubes seem to be the sweet spot of HIGH gain and LOW noise (according to this chart).

                • Tord Just Startin'
                  Tord
                  8 posts since
                  Jun 17, 2007
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                  Feb 9, 2012 10:10 AM (in response to guyotron)
                  Re: DT50 Too Noisy!

                  The link didnt work untill i copied it to my browser.  Very usefull thanks.

                  • guyotron Just Startin'
                    guyotron
                    4 posts since
                    May 4, 2011
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                    Feb 9, 2012 1:05 PM (in response to Tord)
                    Re: DT50 Too Noisy!

                    You're welcome.   I received my DT-50 on Saturday, after reading about the noise issues and such.  I had buyer's remorse before I even had the DT-50 in my hands.  I powered it up and went through the four voicings.  Yes, there's hum and hiss to varying degrees on each of the voicings.  On Tuesday I got my Marshall JCM600 2X12 combo back from the shop with a fresh re-tube.  Comparing my Marshall to the DT-50, the Marshall is WAY noisier!  Just powered on, in standby, it hums.  The DT-50 is relatively silent in standby.

                    • Tord Just Startin'
                      Tord
                      8 posts since
                      Jun 17, 2007
                      Currently Being Moderated
                      Feb 24, 2012 2:44 AM (in response to guyotron)
                      Re: DT50 Too Noisy!

                      Seems to me that that marshall got kind of crappy tubes aswell then. Or you got a god x of the DT50 with god tubes listen to the mp3 that Greg put up and dont say that its a normal thing. My marshall100 watt superlead dont sound at all in standby or with the master volum down. and thats normal. And in standby mode my DT 50 is mute aswell. but with mastervolum down nope. Its the white pink noise in the fender and vox mode in a clean setting hardly no drive at all that bugs me.

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