Just adding: I miss the input level knob of my old Digitech RP20 on which I had that little knob and the red light to control de clipping level and adjust the input manually until I find the sweet spot between clipping or not...
Don't you guys miss a "clip" warning to control de input? I do...
before the impedence was variable, it defaulted to 1M you might try setting it back there if that's what you prefer.
but for the record... the impedence has NOTHING to do with your guitar or pickups...
setting it to auto means the impedence changes based on the effect/model that appears first in your signal chain.
I've felt the same thing....I have gone back and forth between 1.31 and 1.4 2 or 3 time and think I am going to roll back and stay at 1.31 for now.
Not sure if it is just "my" ears but something seems to be not quite as good in 1.40 using my own patches when compared to 1.31.
Can I continue to use HD Edit 1.06 with F/W 1.31 or does that need to be rolled back as well?
This is an interessting topic to me, I don't understand really much of Electronic Guitars and what comes with it. I have played acustic guitars for 10 years just for fun. A couple a weeks ago I bought a HD500 and a Ibanez RG1570Z.
When playing For the Love of God (Steve Vai) I noticed I have problems to sustain certain notes. My first thought it was because of the guitar, a guy on the Ibanez forum was complaining about sustain issues on his RG1570 as well.
Are there some basic rules I need to be aware of to get a good sustain, POD wise as well as guitar wise?
Currently Being ModeratedDec 29, 2011 4:31 PM (in response to JohnnyFu)Re: HD500 - Input impedance
It starts in the guitar...A tremolo detracts from sustain...This is just simple engery transfer...A guitar is a a wave propagation machine...energy propagates into the springs and you lose some sustain there...
The magnetic field of the pickups dampens the strings...basically the closer the pickups are to the strings, the more dampening you will get...the more pickups you have compounds the effect...Hotter pickups have stronger magnetic fields...So the real trick is to find the pickup heights that balance and still give you the tone you seek...the tone changes with height so I think this is a fairly subjective things...gain and in room volume are ways to overcome some of this...The dampening effect of pickups just depends on the pickups themselves...Another thing that can happen when pickups are close is that intonation can get a little strange...That is one way to know you are a bit too close...that and a tuner being unable to lock on the note....
Other small things you can do is to direct mount the buckers....The springs that mount the humbuckers take energy propagated from the body...not much, but every loose end you tighten up in any guitar will increase sustain...I have an old S540 LTD which is similar....main difference is you have ZP tremolo...likely your middle pup is direct mounted from the factory like my 540 is...anyway, I have my buckers direct mounted (no pickup rings or springs) and I put 4 heavy springs in the tremolo and use 9s...I am not sure what can be done to a ZP to help sustain...anyway, good luck...just some random Ibanez thoughts...
Very good explanation!
But talking about the problem on my HD500 it isn't about this. I'm talking about the unit and how it's sounding. Comparing my X3 Live, HD500 and plugging the guitar in front of the amp it gets clear. There's something on my HD500 that doesn't seems right. I'm really worried about my HD500. I've imported it (I'm from Brazil) brand new in box. Opened the box, connected to my computer, runned Monkey for firmware updates and registration and started using. (never tested with firmware 1.31, only 1.40).
At the very first time I've plugged my both guitars I really felt a difference on the sustain compared to the guitar plugged into my amp or plugged into my X3 Live. It's something clearly digital. I still can hear from the guitar the note with vibrating/holding it... and the sound coming from the HD500... it just fades out very soon. It looks like I'm using a HEAVY powered noise gate, because when the volume starts to reduce... the unit just cuts the signal.
I've tried using new patches, changing guitar mode (normal/pad), input impedance (thanks to this discussion) and NO way the sutain on the notes sounds as natural as on my X3 Live or plugged into the amp. Tweaked effects with amps before FX, loops... everything else... and the problem's still there.
The quality of the sounds in general are perfect but the problem is the sustain. Maybe a signal loss at the guitar input, maybe a digital problem or hardware problem. I'm just in another continent (South America - Brazil), we don't have Line6 service repair and I spent lots of money to ship my unit to Brazil and I really wanna try to figure this out
As I was saying that seems like a digital problem, may be something at the firmware or the hardware.
The user dschaaf posted here with the same problem. It may be a fact that maybe... MAYBE we both (me and dschaaf) can be reporting a failure on our units (or maybe on 1.40 firmware) and I'd really appreciate some tips, maybe try new configs, suggestion of something or evaluate the problem... I propose myself to connect through Skype... anything... but seriously... my problem can be helping Line6 with a possible problem.
Couldn't we try to give this issue a little more of interest trying to develop this discussion to figure out if the problem is on the firmware, on our 2 units (mine and dschaaf's) or even if the problem is the one holding the guitar??
Seriously: we may be giving Line6 a feedback of a possible problem.
PM me in order to try to develop this subject or reply but please don't give us answers that pickups are this or the effect is that. If your unit doesn't have this problem, good for you. But ours have! Help us with this and we all may be helping Line6 at all and all their users
Message was edited by: Birro
My previous post was edited because it was confuse and could sound rude but it's not about you guys, it's just that I'm looking forward to understand the problem and find a way to fix it.
Please give me a hand!!
hmmm....a couple of things come to mind reading your post...noise gate threshold too tight? this can make the sustain go away fast and it has a tone sucking think about it too...One thing to try if you need a gate is the new Hard Gate in firmware 1.4...It has attack and release thresholds, decay and hold...lots of control in that and it is really fast too...
Have you tried a blank patch with only an amp model in the chain? I am not sure if you are going through presets or what...I imagine you aren't since you seem to be really familiar with the Line 6 stuff...
maybe you could record a clip and post the patch...I don't have an HD500, but I have an HD bean so as long as the patch doesn't have an FX loop in it, it should convert over just fine...I could try it...
Alright... the subject is "sustain". I didn't play a thousand notes... just simple notes.
Ibanez -> DiMarzio Evo2 (bridge), DiMarzio Air Norton-S (neck). Ernie Ball strings 009 gauge
GIbson -> 490R/498T. Ernie Ball strings 010 gauge
HD500 -> through USB
CoolEdit Pro for recording (I like watching the levels). NO effects.
PS: I've done it all first with the Ibanez where I was litterally grabbing the the string and vibrating as much as I could, so sometimes I've touched other strings
Test 1: New Tone (nothing! Just a New Tone "as is") - raise your volume please
Test 2: At this New Tone I've put the Threadplate with NO tweaks. The original bass/middle/treble/presence and the original mic you got when you select this amp
Test 3: Using a patch suggested by mr_slugworth at the discussion http://line6.com/support/message/338477#338477 you can see the settings. Red Comp added with sustain @ 60% and Level @ 71%. NO noise gate
PLEASE low your volume!!
Ibanez - Test 2:
Please note at 00:04 the decay how fast I lose the sound...
00:53 the same
01:01 I get feedback harmonics... but HOW do I get feedback harmonics losing sound so fast???
01:10-01:11: note that the sound decays VERY quickly and then again feedback harmonics
01:51 and 01:53 - very noticeable at these harmonics
Ibanez - Test 3: (using the compressor!!)
00:03 - what's that?? How does it decay so fast?? Where's the compressor?? (sleeping? lol)
00:53 - at the end of the harmonic I almost instantly lose the sound of the note
01:29 - losing the sound very fast again
Gibson - Test 2: (the same as Ibanez: no compressor)
00:03 - no comments...
00:14 - how do I lose the sound at 00:03 and here I get feedback harmonics so easily? I'm not using amps!
00:56 - right after the harmonic... again looks like a noise gate that cuts the sound
Gibson - Test 3: (same as Ibanez: WITH compressor)
00:29 - HERE you can hear perfectly the thing happening
00:46 - How come? I lose the sound but I still get feedback harmonics?
sorry for the very simple notes and no edit. Just recorded and played with no corrections. The intention was to show you what's exactly happening
Boy that is really strange...I can hear this same sustain drop on both guitars and what I hear on the dry patch seems consistent with the simple patches...
Have you tried using the second input? this might help isolate if there is a problem with the main guitar input...I am less familiar with the HD500, but my guess would be to set input 1 to AUX and leave input 2 as variax...plug the guitar into the aux...You should know right aways on an empty patch if the effect is there or not...Sorry to run you around...something does not sound right to me in your clips...
1- mp3 with "New Tone" I left as default, so Input 1: Guit+Aux+Varx+Ch1; Input 2: Same
2- mp3 with the Threadplate, no tweak, the same as above
3- mp3 Threadplate simple patch: Input 1: Guitar+Aux; Input 2: Variax (as following some posts that keeping Input 2 as "same" would overload my input"
Just tested here using the guitars at the Aux In. Same results.
Changed to use the guitar at Input 2 Source, using Input 1 as Variax, same results. Using Guitar In or Aux In.
The problem persists with both input jacks (Guitar In and Aux In) and also changing the Input Source, using 1 or 2.
Exactly the same "cut" at the sound after a few secs, just like a digital noise gate...
Here's the screen with the "Threadplate simple patch" on which I'm using the compressor and NO noise gate.
(you can hear at the mp3 on both guitars that the example 3 has the compressor that doesn't do the job on sustain)
i had very similar observation. there were two guitars, that I compared, a MM JP and Ibanez RGA121. I played them both for quite a long time (POD HD 500 > headphones) and couldn't help but notice that MM had better sustain, while RGA was dying pretty quickly and in a rather abrupt manner.
MM does seem to sustain better, still, but however, when I played both guitars through a "real" rig (Mesa) Ibanez sustained much, much better and difference between two guiatrs was negligible sustain-wise.
Currently Being ModeratedJan 8, 2012 8:05 AM (in response to BigChas52)Re: HD500 - Input impedance
Tried both. PAD and Normal. Same results.
As I said it looks like a digital problem that cuts my sound.
When you hear the mp3s posted before, you can hear that when I play a note I have 100% of the sound. When it decreases to about 60% of the volume, it cuts down directly to around 20% when you have feedback harmonics and can hear me shaking the strings like crazy in order to sustain the note.
It looks like I'm using a heavy noise gate that cuts my sound instead of letting it sound until the volume drops to fade out. Tried rolling back firmwares, installing again... the problem's still there. Used Guitar In, Aux In... same results.
Thanks for the try and please keep posting new trials in order to find a solution
Currently Being ModeratedJan 8, 2012 11:45 AM (in response to spaceatl)Re: HD500 - Input impedance
Yes I did. Same results. After installing the firmwares I was still looking for a solution. Went to that discussion about resetting globals and did the left nav, power on, then recalibrating the pedal with those strange numbers (press A when you get a number, press B when you get another number... then C...). The problem's still there.
Guys... as many shots in the dark we give... believe me... you won't bother me. I'm the most interested of solving this puzzle. Send me more and more trials.
I was thinking of a very advanced solution that would solve the problem between being hardware or firmware. I'll try to explain and then let's see what others may think.
I'll PM you both with this cause it's programming stuff and I don't think it should be polite to Line6 posting it here. But may the the solution for my case and several other cases on which Line6 could work out and try to help not only me but other users with system bugs.
If you guys authorise I'll post it later.
Birro. Is there any way you can go into a shop nearby and try another POD HD500 with one of your guitars and leads? It would quickly confirm whether there is a hardware problem with your particular unit.
Currently Being ModeratedJan 8, 2012 1:14 PM (in response to jimsreynolds)Re: HD500 - Input impedance
Here in Brazil there aren't stores with HD500 for test. You have to order one, pay in advance and they bring the unit in a few days for you. The representative in Brazil only works like this they don't leave units for testing at the stores. I could test lots of other brands like guitars, amps, effects, pedalboards... but generally they don't have Line6's for you to test. So all my Line6 units I've bought were reading, listening to samples, reading posts and doing some researches. Tomorrow after work I'll try to drive to a huge guitar shop 30km (around 20 miles) away that may have a unit. I'll look for their phone and contact them and check if they have a HD unit there (300, 400, 500, Pro or Bean).
My first impressions were based compairing my X3 Live and the HD500. Then at the beginning of this discussion you can check some mp3 I've recorded with the HD500 without effects, then only with amp and then with compressor + screamer and amp. Listen to the sounds as I wrote the moments that the sound drops. If I plug any of the guitars into the amp there's no problem. The problem is at the unit.
Unfortunately I sold the X3 Live two weeks after receiving the HD500 in order to pay the new one. I don't have the X3L anymore
But listening to my samples you could compare mine to yours. Have you listened and followed my comments at the times when it drops? Doesn't it seems like a noise gate working cutting down my sustain like it shouldn't? And no noise gate were used.
Let me know anything else I could test from here. And I can borrow a X3 Live on the next week if you want me to play and compare the sounds but I can assure to you that it didn't happened as doesn't happen when I plug the guitars in front my amp
(don't stop posting!! I don't get bothered at all!! )
I understand that it is going to be difficult to try another unit but I also think that most of the 'standard' fixes have already been tried here (firmware re-flash, global settings, simple patch etc). Someone may yet have a solution but I think you need to make that call to the store and see if there is a test unit to compare with. If your unit is faulty then you need to know this while you still have access to some kind of warranty.
I listened to Test 1 (Ibanez) and Test 2 (Gibson) and would agree that something appears to be killing your sustain. It does not really sound like a noise gate to me - more like an expander or something (the opposite of a compressor) though the HD does not have one of those. I find it odd that, with the Test2 patches, there is clearly still a little bit of signal coming through when the note trails off but you continue the vibrato.
Is there anything odd about the power in your location? I have heard that Brazil has both 120V and 240V. I think that the standard power supply of the HD (DC-3g - http://line6.com/support/servlet/JiveServlet/download/2221-75039-331255-41097/Dok2.pdf) is switching and should be able to cope with this. I take it you are not using an inverter or anything like that?
Currently Being ModeratedJan 8, 2012 1:29 PM (in response to jimsreynolds)Re: HD500 - Input impedance
Very odd uh? You can hear that after the sound drop, I have the feedback harmonics and you can hear me shaking the string through the fret... so my pickups have high output. My HD500 is just cutting the sound at a certain volume and then releases it again. (holding the sound until 60-70%, cutting immediately to 20-30% and keeping it).
About the power I only use my electronics gear connected to a power stabilizer (except my amp which I plug directl into the power source and you shouldn't stabilize an amplifier as it demands the power according to the volume you set it to amplificate) and our tension here in my city (Rio de Janeiro) is 110-120V. The power stabilizer is just to avoid peaks or low tensions, and also providing a good grounding. The power of the stabilizer is 0,3kVa that should be more than enough for the HD500. And also using it avoid me plugging/unplugging the power supply, avoiding electrical peaks when plugging it right into the power source and even giving me a power on/off switch which the HD500 doesn't has.
My power supply is the standard DC-3G, not using an inverter.
If the power supply had problems delivering power I'd have noticed because at the first days I left the unit on for several hours (only for testing as I do with all new gear I buy) and also when it requires more power, when using the master volume at maximum, with the entire memory loaded (with the entire quantity of effects running at the same time) and I got no clips or lights diminishing that could suggest that the unit wasn't receiving the appropriate power quantity.
On Sunday I sent an e-mail to Line6's representative in Brazil... no answer, no calls (as people at the Brazilian group here at the forum were stating that they don't care about Line6's customers). This representative really puts Line6 under fire for us in Brazil when needed. I've heard they don't care... but now I've tasted it
Should I open a Support Ticket for my issue?
Ok...just another shot in the dark...I am wondering if this happens with no USB connected at all...No Edit...Just the HD, a guitar and a pair of headphones...I remember you recorded the clips with the USB...That should not be a problem...I imagine you have done this already...just trying to eliminate anything else...
In terms of you question about firmware...It's not like OS software...It's not a cumulative thing like a software upgrade...It's always complete...Re-flashing is like installing a new OS...
Really odd issue...I wish I could think of something else for you to try...Listening to the clips I would suspect the guitars as it really sounds like the guitars..but the feedback on top of a dropout is really strange brew...So sorry that I can't think of anything that might help...Only thing I could think of to maybe confirm an overall issue would be to try a variax...or perhaps adapt the guitar to XLR just to see what happens there...just a thought...
Currently Being ModeratedJan 10, 2012 3:18 PM (in response to spaceatl)Re: HD500 - Input impedance
Update: NEW INFO!
Alright... I took 2 hours with my HD500 trying things. First, spaceatl's shot:
- Turning on with the USB unplugged -> the problem still remains
On his 2nd paragraph he said the firmware is not cumulative. However I'm determined to fix this. So I rolled it back to version 1.10. Tested with patch 1A... the problem still remains.
Runned HD500 edit, changed the inputs (at 1.10 the inputs are Input1: everything; Input 2: Same), put just Guitar on 1 and Aux on 2... the problem keeps persisting there...
Well... I got so frustrated and I was taking of the guitar strap from my back and I then I just touched the strings. WOW! The sound sustained!!!!!!!!!!! HOW???? Another shot: Played a chord... SUSTAINED! Seriously... tears were coming to my eyes!!! Finally tried to play a single note... "the problem still remains". WHAT THE...???? Chords: sustained! Single note: sound drop.
Installed firmware 1.40 again... do I need to mention that the problem persists? Well... runned HD500 edit, the guitar in are correct (as for 1.40 we have Input 1: Guitar, Input 2: Aux), no need to change anything... started CoolEdit Pro and recorded the sample below:
Gear: Gibson LP, using bridge pickup
The last notes where on the 22nd fret... I just can't bend and sustain a note during a solo of my own band that I've created myself. I just can't play something I recorded!
So guys... now I'm stuck. I thought about grounding. Changed the power supply into another place... changed positions (horizontally) and nothing.
OH! I tested guitar in on Guitar and also using PAD. Same results.
I think that this may give Line6 and you all something to figure out better: why do I have sustain with chords and why can't I sustain a single note??
These were my last trials on me. I'm out of ideas. Please... give me a hand guys... I'm really frustrated, disappointed...
PS: do you think Line6's brazilian representative returned my e-mails or called me back? No. Not even a message: "we'll return within 3 business days". I have NO support on Brazil... only me, my computer and this forum with your precious help
Thanks for reading so far and subscribing to this discussion
I feel like I am missing something here. I listened to the audio recordings and did my own A/B testing between the POD HD and the POD X3 series using these same models and I wasn't hearing anything that sounded like there is a problem with the sustain you get. The HD and X3 both performed very similar without either one really having more sustain that the other. Also, they sounded very similar to your recordings.
Are you comparing the performance of the HD500 to the X3, or are you saying that the sustain you get with the POD HD500 isn't to your liking?
It is difficult to get further sustain using the POD's than what you get through these recordings unless you are playing loud enough for the sound to sustain with the audio from the amp or speakers you are playing through.
If I am missing something, please let me know.
Currently Being ModeratedJan 11, 2012 4:06 PM (in response to Line6Hugo)Re: HD500 - Input impedance
I'm not complaining performances or comparing the units.
As soon as I took the HD500 from the box and plugged my guitar into it, everything seemed fine, except sustaining notes. Have you checked the mp3 files from the first page of this discussion?
As you said: "HD and X3 both performed very similar without either one really having more sustain that the other". So you got my point.
Yes I do want further sustain but that's not this point for now. The thing is that my HD500 isn't delivering the guitar's natural sustain on single notes. It's cutting the sound of my single notes as I posted on the 6 mp3 files. Looks like a signal cut. A fast drop on the sound that's not natural.
Using the old X3 Live or even playing at regular amps, you play a single note, vibrates it and you have the sustain, that's is based on your pickups, guitar construction, playing technique and also the effects you're using.
Into a regular amp, using distortion or not, you play a regular note, vibrates it and then the sound starts to fade. It's completely normal.
But on my HD500 the sound isn't fading as it should. I have a "cut"/drop on the sound working like a "noise gate", cutting the volume. Please listen to the mp3s at the first page. Pay attention to the 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th mp3 and hear the sound cut. Using any guitars I have I get that. It only happens on this HD500 of mine. If I plug the guitars into the amp, the sustain looks natural. Using my old X3 Live with my effects tweaked, I used to get an "infinite sustain". And now there's no sustain at all. I just can't play my solos sustaining notes for more than 1-2 seconds. If I bend a note, after a very little space of time I just lose the sound.
Please let's start over from the beginning of this discussion, at the 11th post on which I posted the sounds and written what I'm getting. What's happening isn't natural, isn't a performance comparison on units nor a tweaking patch difficulty. Those samples were recorded with what I wrote, no noise gate and only the last ones with compressor... and it's clear that something's not right. This is our start point.
All of your recordings have been listened to and it is tough to tell if there is anything wrong with how the unit behaves. I have opened a support ticket to continue this support through. Please use the following link to view your support ticket:
Currently Being ModeratedJan 18, 2012 1:13 PM (in response to Line6Hugo)Re: HD500 - Input impedance
I'd like to thank you Hugo for the ticket, and also all the others who posted on this discussion, specially spaceatl, BigChas52 and jimsreynolds.
I'll mark some as "Helpful" but none as "Correct" so far.
Thank you all and I hope to get back on this discussion with great news and the problem solved!
Yes we did achieved lots of good results.
First of all: what kind of style do you play? A key to get a good sustain with distortion is using the Screamer and using it's distortion. The more "gain" you set, more sustain you get. This was very interesting...
Another thing is about the compressor. Forget the "Blue Comp" and "Red Comp". The best results were achieved with the Tube Comp using 26% and 27% respectively at the settings.
These 2 tips won't solve the problem 100%. But it's a way to go.
Try these and let me know the amps and style you like playing... and also let us know what effects you're using and then there are some other settings to do that can improve the sustain. But the first steps are the two above. Then, is adjusting at the amp, the 4 new parameters (Sag, Master... etc).
Give a try. It didn't solve because I understood it's not a problem, but it's a consequence of getting the HD sounds. Once you prefere losing a little "quality" on behalf of getting more sustain, there are parameters that you can use to get the sustain we used to get with the X3 and XT series, but with their sound (not HD sound).