Jan 7, 2012 11:45 AM
POD HD Pro - What a Complete Disappointment ?
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I've spent the best part of the weekend trying to get some decent tones out of my new POD HD Pro but to no avail. Firstly, thanks to all who have given me advise so far, its been great to know that other people are willing to share their knowledge with other POD users.
I have programmed in a few clean patches - nothing stunning or adventurous, mostly chorus, delay and reverb using a Blackface as an amp model, with no cab sims and using the Studio and Valve amp global config settings (as advised ). These sound basically OK but they have hard edges, do not cut through any mix and sound dull, uninteresting and quite frankly, very uninspiring.
I use this unit through a Marshall 1936 and a Rocktron Velocity 300. This unit has replaced my Digitech GSP1101 which I am upgrading with the Line 6 HD Pro (or so I thought). It would appear I will be swapping the units out again if I can't get a decent patch library created in the next day or so befor my next rehearsal session.
So ..... I tried a lead tone - a JCM800 with a bit delay and touch of plate reverb. Excellent - I can now hear loads of background hiss and hum and wouldn't dream of using this in a live environemnt, I thought I could change to something like an American high gain (Mesa Dual Rectifier) but, unfortunately, it looks like there isn't an amp sim for this yet- great.....
So I went through all of the patches one by one that come with the unit - only to find that Line6 think its a great idea to stuff a new rack unit with stupid noises instead of showcase lead, crunch, slapback, chorus etc patches - there are none here which can be used straight out of the box for a rehearsal (why ????). My Boss e-Band has much better built in effects than this and it cost a fraction of the price. What are you thinking Line6 - do you think that someone taking a GSP1101 out of a rack and putting in a HD Pro would like to start completely from scratch developing all the effects because all that you get a a few hundred stupid noises ? I would have preferred to hear the top notch patches so I can quickly fill a set list with them and get straight to a rehearsal - I didn't expect to start from nothing with a unit that warrants this sort of price - what a pointless thing to do.
I'll continue with the HD Pro for another couple of days - I'm hoping for a moment of inspiration where I can suddenly see that its sounding like donkey balls because of a bust lead - but I'm not holding my breath. I've checked them, used different guitars, double checked, used more guitars, checked again and all is good.
the "pilots manual" is not a lot of use either - where is the section that states "if you are using a SS power amp and a cabinet - you should use the XYZ setting as shown on page ABC" - just like Digitech do - but maybe Line6 were too busy making patches that do stupid space noises - who knows.
What a complete waste of a couple of days........
I still live in hope .......
You need to make sure that you have the right output setup. I get good patches for direct recording which would work well FOH or with a mixer, but it's crucial to get the right output setup. Also try using Preamp Model Only since your using it with and an amp.
Hi there - thanks for your help. Where is this setting please ?
Fluffy
+1 on Dean. It can be frustrating getting oriented with a new piece of kit but I think you should persevere. I know you are new to Pods so I will hit you with information - forgive me if too much.
A key point is that the setup of the HD and patches very much depends on what you are plugging it into, This will differ a lot for plugging into a desk, plugging into a power amp, plugging in for effects only in a four cable setup or whatever. Keep plugging and come back with specific problems.
HTH
JIM
You should get 10 Points if not more for this cumulative answer. I'm learning alot more about my pod following you. Thanks
DeanDinosaur wrote:
You should get 10 Points if not more for this cumulative answer. I'm learning alot more about my pod following you. Thanks
Now this is a guitar related forum. Everything therefore goes to 11
Correct Answer = 5 + Helpful Answer = 3 + Heplful Answer = 3. Total possible points = 11 ![]()
+1 Good stuff Jim. Well done. Yep - you are right, my quick and dirty 16x4 patch list was quickly compiled shortly after the HD500 came out with the original 16 full amp models. It should still work OK for what was originally intended, but there are more models and some have been changed a bit in later firmware versions.
And of course the HD500 set list can simply be dragged and dropped into POD HD Pro Edit so the patches should work in the Pro with no real problems.
Nick
I haven't had my coffee when I wrote that, I might of thought of 11 also.
Nick, I thought your generic patches were a really good idea. As fluffy says: the pod defaults are effects-heavy and there is plenty of room for some solid, basic amp-oriented patches like yours to get people going when they are more concerned about a basic tone palette than an FX showcase. I guess the point stands that the patches will need tweaking depending on the output type but having the basic structure in place is good. You should give them a spit-shine for 1.40
I would be tempted to try putting something together myself but my primary focus is on effects and switching to support my 'real' amp for live use. I don't have access to good headphones or an FRFR setup. My main rig is sounding good now and my modelled Combo Power amp ones increasingly so but I cannot produce quality Studio Direct patches right now.
I may revisit the generic patch thing in a few weeks Jim for a bit of a polish. For a variety of reasons, I can't do it right now, but yeah - 12 months plus on something is probably needed to put a bit of a fresh face on the basic idea ![]()
Nick
Thanks Dean. I learn stuff from people here all the time and not just about Pods specifically. Good hangout![]()
Hi Jim
Your a superstar and a huge asset to these forums - thanks so much for sparing the time to help me.
I've changed over to stack power amp which made a big difference but also changed the frequency from 60hz to 50hz and activated the Variax channel (as mentioned in a previous thread). Although I'm still stuck with the factory settings I have managed to get a really lush treadplate lead tone with a long delay.
Thanks again to everyone for your help. I do think line6 should have a range of showcase patches though it would help with setting the unit up - who knows what "haunted toys" is supposed to sound like so how do you know if the unit is set up right ???
We live and learn.
Thanks again - I'm eternally grateful
Use headphones into the phones output, and in the pod hd setup menu make sure you have studio direct output mode (screen 4/9).
This will give you a good idea of the best sound quality you can get from your pod.
Hi lef38 - I've tried that and I do get some epic tones out of the POD. However, when I go through my Rocktron Velocity with the Marshall 1936, it totally changes the tone. I've changed the output modes to all different values and also changed the "line/amp" switch on the back of the unit for all combinations. It sounds 10 times better than before, and I know the unit is capable of these epic tones because I can hear them through the headphones - the only thing that I can think of that is destroying the tones is the Rocktron unit. It might be something to do with the reactance and presence dials on the front and the filters used in the unit - every setting kills the sound from the POD to an extent so I'll try it straight into one of our active Mackie Thump active PA speakers with the Studio/Direct Output setting. If this does the trick, I'll be getting rid of the Rocktron and the Marshall 1936.
V_Fluffy wrote:
I thought I could change to something like an American high gain (Mesa Dual Rectifier) but, unfortunately, it looks like there isn't an amp sim for this yet- great.....
Treadplate.
I've plugged my GSP1101 back in and it sounds much better than the HD Pro - this shouldn't be the case. I don't know what is wrong now with the HD Pro or what the settings should be - some sound better than others, but none sound great.
I've tried just about everything now - I'm even going to plug the thing straight into the desk tomorrow to see if that helps but I'm not holding my breath. If this doesn't sound any better, I'm afraid it will be going and I'll be looking at something else. I think 10 days messing around with the thing to get decent sounds out of is enough.
Maybe someone on here knows a simple mistake I'm making - who knows, maybe I just got a duff one.....
I live in hope.
V_Fluffy wrote:
I've plugged my GSP1101 back in and it sounds much better than the HD Pro - this shouldn't be the case. I don't know what is wrong now with the HD Pro or what the settings should be - some sound better than others, but none sound great.
I've tried just about everything now - I'm even going to plug the thing straight into the desk tomorrow to see if that helps but I'm not holding my breath. If this doesn't sound any better, I'm afraid it will be going and I'll be looking at something else. I think 10 days messing around with the thing to get decent sounds out of is enough.
Maybe someone on here knows a simple mistake I'm making - who knows, maybe I just got a duff one.....
I live in hope.
How exactly are you connecting the POD? I may have missed that so I apologize. Also, on your pateches, make sure that you have the mixer block panned center. That makes a difference IMO.
Rick
First off make sure you're not clipping your unit:
1) Turn on the tuner. Select your bridge humbucker. Make sure your guitar volume is on full. Strum as hard as you can and listen for clipping in the tone. If there is clipping, you are either clipping the Pod's input or your amp's input (even if you are running to power amp in). Turn down the unit's Master knob and see if that eliminates the clipping. If not, turn down the guitar's volume control and see if that eliminates it. If it's input volume, you can lower your pickup height or try to use the unit's Pad switch, or even reduce the input impedance setting in the system menu.
2) Turn off all effects in your patch, and just keep the amp model on. Does the tone have a clipping sound noticeable? If so, you are probably clipping the overall signal resolution in the Pod. Make sure your mixer levels are set to 0 db for both channels. Then reduce the amp/channel volume knob until the clipping is gone. I like to keep this parameter at 50% or less, but that mainly deals with the next source of clipping...
3) Turn on effects one at a time listening for clipping. Some effects can boost the signal, which may push it over the signal's overall resolution, or cause it to clip your real amp input. Even if that's not the case, individual effects may exhibit clipping when fed a strong signal, particularly the Parameteric EQ. Once such effects are identified, position them in the chain where they are given a softer signal. Set EQ's that cut first and ones that boost last. If necessary/possible, position them between the amp and mixer, setting amp volume low and boosting via the mixer.
Now for dialing in:
The JCM800 model takes a bit to dial in. Ignore it for now. If you want a similar tone, use the ENGL Fball model. Some things I like to do with the JCM800 are to always run an overdrive/EQ in front of it to brighten up the tone. I generally reduce the Bias control and Bias X controls. Sometimes I push the Master Volume amp parameter to 60-75% to get power amp distortion. Sometimes I reduce it.
The Uber has a great rich creamy lead tone out the box, but can be terribly muddy sounding if you want a tight tone or metal rhythm. If you want a Mesa Mark type tone, throw a Studio EQ in front the Uber model, set low freq to 1000HZ and crank it in the +8-10db range. Set high freq to 200 HZ and set it to -9-11 db. This completely transforms the amp. This is my favorite tone in the Pod HD.
Similar techniques will help tighten up the Treadplate and Fball models, and help dial in that perfect distortion tone you're looking for. The Treadplate and Fball are much less muddy, so I don't usually use a bass cut on them. Then you can use a Parametric EQ, which helps you find the exact frequency range you want to boost in the mids/upper mids to get a nice distortion. You have to play around to find the sweet spot, but I just like a subtle change - usually freq 55%, Q 50%, gain 60%.
I find using EQ's a little more transparent and wash out less tone than using Distortion effects as overdrives (drive turned down and gain/output turned up). However, if you want to try out using a Distortion effect for this purpose, the Screamer and Classic Distortion work well. Start off leaving the bass control alone or cutting slightly. Mainly find a balance between tone/filter and highs. Too much highs can make the amp sound kind of like a blown speaker. Too much tone (upper mids) can cause the amp to sound a little too much like a cheap stomp box. The Classic Distortion's filter controls seems to work opposite of the Screamer's tone control - the lower you set them the more bite/djent in the tone. Finally, I try to use the Classic Distortion as an overdrive more than the Screamer, because the Screamer isn't 100% clean at 0% drive, while the Classic Distortion is. In a heavily distorted tone, you can't really hear the Screamer's slight breakup, but it can make a lead tone a little rougher than it otherwise would be.
To dial out fizz, I like to use a parametric EQ after the amp and mixer. I set the gain up to about 75-80% and Q up to about 90%. I start with frequency around 70% and slowly move up and down from 70 - 100% and try to find the spot that makes the unit sound unbelievably fizzy. Then I cut that area until the unit no longer sounds fizzy, but don't cut too much or it'll sound muffled. For me, the spot is usually freq 95%, Q 90%, gain 35%, but it varies for amp models and speaker cabs and mic choices. Some models are more fizzy than others. You may want to suck out more than one fizzy spot, using 2 EQ's. I find 83% is usually a little fizzy for me. If you find you've lost too much high end, dial it back using one of the EQ's "highs" parameters. In general, I find the tone is much fizzier when using onboard cab and mic emulation than running out to a power amp without cab/mic emulation...with the exception of the JCM800 model, which seems to have a bit of fizz baked in. But it can be tamed.
Running out to a real power amp and cabinet, I like to set the output mode to combo power amp and cab model to "no cabinet". In this mode, there is no mic emulation, which is where the Pod really rounds off the highs. The cab models are more of a mild EQ'ing. I don't like to use them because they seem to cut lows and highs out the tone, making it sound a little thin and washed out at the same time. If your final tone is too bright, try using a Studio EQ at the end and setting high freq to 8000 HZ and cutting a few db.
I tend to use "full" amp models even when running out to a real power amp, then turning down the amp model's "Master Volume" parameter a decent bit, instead of using the "pre" models. I find the full models have a bit more bite and punch to them. The pre models kind of sound like the cab models - they are a little thin and washed out at the same time...to my ears.
meambobbo wrote:
First off make sure you're not clipping your unit:
1) Turn on the tuner. Select your bridge humbucker. Make sure your guitar volume is on full. Strum as hard as you can and listen for clipping in the tone. If there is clipping, you are either clipping the Pod's input or your amp's input (even if you are running to power amp in). Turn down the unit's Master knob and see if that eliminates the clipping. If not, turn down the guitar's volume control and see if that eliminates it. If it's input volume, you can lower your pickup height or try to use the unit's Pad switch, or even reduce the input impedance setting in the system menu.
Great tip !!! Nice diagnostic approach.
Hi Everyone,
thanks for all your help - I really appreciate it and you all deserve a medal.
I set the POD up at our rehearsal room this afternoon - changed the output to Studio and plugged it directly into 2 Mackie TH15s using the balanced XLR outputs. I selected a simple patch that was from the Community area that I liked when I listened to it using headphones yesterday.
It sounded awesome !!!.
I checked my Rocktron again - it turns out one of the channels has gone down and the other is pretty much dying which is explaining why sometimes it sounds OK (ish) and others like its utter crap. I know through the PA its going to need a bit of EQ and tweaking which I would expect, but the difference is night and day compared to my bust power amp.
When I put the Digitech unit back in coincidentally, the amp must have behaved, even though it lost output twice which I put down to a software issue - now I know why - the amp was probably overheating and shutting down.
So, I feel really stupid now .............
It would be a lot easier for first time set up if Line6 could ship the unit with a "reference tone" you can listen to through the headphone channel using the Studio output setting. You can then compare it when getting the setting right to match the reference tone as best possible with the gear you are using it with. It wouldn't be 100% accurate, but 80% is still better than not knowing at all. It would save a lot of time creating and recreating patches too. Even the looper could be used to keep the reference tone running over and over while you tweak the settings - who knows ??
So, thanks all of you for helping me and giving me loads of tips and advice. I'm sure lots of others are finding this thread useful too. I'm off to go and buy a pair of Mackie TH15s now :-) and send the Rocktron back.
Thanks again.
Sounds like a happy ending (kind of) to me. Glad you got to the bottom of it. ![]()
Yes jim - a very happy ending.
The mackie th15s also sound good with this unit so I'll be using a pair of them from now on.
Thanks again !!!!
Well, so far so good. In fact, I'm inclined to say - "so far so very very very good".
I've created some patches on the POD HD now and I'm now using a QSC K12 active speaker with it. The sound is just awesome - I especially like the clean Fender Blackface tones - on the neck pickup they sound superb.
I think this is one of the best sounding units I've ever heard and although it doesn't blow away my Digitech GSP1101 it does have the upper hand so far on all the patches.
Wouldn't it be nice if Line6 had a feature in the editor to assign a "type" to each patch "Clean, Rythmn, Lead" etc so that you could get the levels right for all patches in one go ? Maybe an idea for the next release......
Anyway, off I go back to my quest for ultimate tone - thanks to all you guys on here for your help again. It really is worth the pain and the wait in the end.
im about to buy either this pod or the Digitech GSP1101.....
my enviroment??.....usually......whatever I use to PA system......not enough space for an amp.....style? ballads, rock, pop rock, even metal......
what do u suggest?
I think most people round here will draw a line to the POD ![]()
Seriously though, the amp modelling on the POD is superior to any other units at the same price point and the effects are pretty darn good too. There are weaknesses of course and I hear that the effects on the Digitech are pretty good. However, for your scenario (straight into a PA) I think the Pod may be a better option. Get the HD500 if you can afford it.
thnx man.....I appreciate for your interest...I think Im gonna buy this baby.....
sorry I didnt read Get the "HD500".......isnt this pod even better than the hd500??
the pod is the pod. wether it be xt or x3. in this case, we're talking about pod hd. there are different versions. 300, 400, 500, bean and pro. all use the same guts. 300 and 400 do not have dual amp capability.
thnx.....actually I was reading the specs.....for each one of the pods......and the more I read about the hd pro...the more I want it!!!!
A lot of it has to do with your output, as people have stated. It tends to sound better on clean amps, the cleaner the better(I heard one guy have amazing results through a Roland Jazz Chorus).
When I first got mine(I've had a Pod HD500 for a year now) I could only play with headphones because it sounded awful through my 6505+. I even made a thread on here saying I'd like to use it live but it sounds like crud. Found a DT50 2x12 on sale at a local guitar store and nabbed it, and it sounds incredible now. Some people don't like the DT amps... I love mine.
Just food for thought. With my 6505+ though, the closest I got to a good sound was when i just ran it straight into the FX loop. Cheers.
Playing thru my QSC K10 i hear the same sound as in my headphones.
Yes I have a pair of K12s and it sounds awesome. I also have a gsp1101 that i run through the effects loop too
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