Skip navigation
5420 Views 30 Replies Latest reply: Apr 14, 2012 1:07 AM by V_Fluffy RSS
V_Fluffy Just Startin' 54 posts since
Jan 5, 2012
Currently Being Moderated

Jan 7, 2012 11:45 AM

POD HD Pro - What a Complete Disappointment ?

I've spent the best part of the weekend trying to get some decent tones out of my new POD HD Pro but to no avail. Firstly, thanks to all who have given me advise so far, its been great to know that other people are willing to share their knowledge with other POD users.

 

I have programmed in a few clean patches - nothing stunning or adventurous, mostly chorus, delay and reverb using a Blackface as an amp model, with no cab sims and using the Studio and Valve amp global config settings (as advised ). These sound basically OK but they have hard edges, do not cut through any mix and sound dull, uninteresting and quite frankly, very uninspiring.

 

I use this unit through a Marshall 1936 and a Rocktron Velocity 300. This unit has replaced my Digitech GSP1101 which I am upgrading with the Line 6 HD Pro (or so I thought). It would appear I will be swapping the units out again if I can't get a decent patch library created in the next day or so befor my next rehearsal session.

 

So .....  I tried a lead tone - a JCM800 with a bit delay and touch of plate reverb. Excellent - I can now hear loads of background hiss and hum and wouldn't dream of using this in a live environemnt, I thought I could change to something like an American high gain (Mesa Dual Rectifier) but, unfortunately, it looks like there isn't an amp sim for this yet- great.....

 

So I went through all of the patches one by one that come with the unit - only to find that Line6 think its a great idea to stuff a new rack unit with stupid noises instead of showcase lead, crunch, slapback, chorus etc patches - there are none here which can be used straight out of the box for a rehearsal (why ????). My Boss e-Band has much better built in effects than this and it cost a fraction of the price. What are you thinking Line6 - do you think that someone taking a GSP1101 out of a rack and putting in a HD Pro would like to start completely from scratch developing all the effects because all that you get a a few hundred stupid noises ? I would have preferred to hear the top notch patches so I can quickly fill a set list with them and get straight to a rehearsal - I didn't expect to start from nothing with a unit that warrants this sort of price - what a pointless thing to do.

 

I'll continue with the HD Pro for another couple of days - I'm hoping for a moment of inspiration where I can suddenly see that its sounding like donkey balls because of a bust lead - but I'm not holding my breath. I've checked them, used different guitars, double checked, used more guitars, checked again and all is good.

 

the "pilots manual" is not a lot of use either - where is the section that states "if you are using a SS power amp and a cabinet - you should use the XYZ setting as shown on page ABC" - just like Digitech do - but maybe Line6 were too busy making patches that do stupid space noises - who knows.

 

What a complete waste of a couple of days........

 

I still live in hope .......

  • DeanDinosaur Iknowathingortwo 443 posts since
    Jul 30, 2009
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 7, 2012 4:00 PM (in response to V_Fluffy)
    Re: POD HD Pro - What a Complete Disappointment ?

    You need to make sure that you have the right output setup. I get good patches for direct recording which would work well FOH or with a mixer, but it's crucial to get the right output setup. Also try using Preamp Model Only since your using it with and an amp.

  • jimsreynolds Power User 2,227 posts since
    Jun 27, 43450
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 7, 2012 5:29 PM (in response to V_Fluffy)
    Re: POD HD Pro - What a Complete Disappointment ?

    Fluffy

     

    +1 on Dean.   It can be frustrating getting oriented with a new piece of kit but I think you should persevere.  I  know you are new to Pods so I will hit you with information  - forgive me if too much.  

     

    1. The Advanced user guide is found here --> http://line6.com/support/manuals/ .  The current english version for 1.40 firmware is found here -->http://l6c.scdn.line6.net/data/l/0a06434d54144e6f92aa2937e/application/pdf/POD%20HD%20Pro%20Advanced%20Guide%20(Rev%20B)%20-%20English.pdf .  It will explain much of what I and others are talking about in more detail.

    2. If you have not already updated the firmware to 1.40 then do it now.  The latest firmware has the latest fixes and features and is recommended.  Use Line 6 Monkey to check and update the firmware.   This is available at the link here --- > http://line6.com/software/ .
    3. As Dean says:  It is important to setup the right output mode for the HD.   For your Rocktron Velocity, set the output type to 'Combo Power Amp' or 'Stack Power Amp'.  Details on how to do this can be found on page 2-7 of the advanced guide.  This should be your starting point.  If one of the other modes sounds better to you then use that.

    4. The preset's on the Pod HD are configured to show off the various effects and yes, are a bit over the top on some patches.  My best advice to you is to create your own 'blank' patch and populate it with the effects that you are most interested in for 'standard' use.   Save this as a template on your PC (using HD Edit) and clone it for each amp setup that you want.  You can always alter the effects later for a specific patch.

    5. One of the expert users, Nick Mattocks, created a set of demo patches for each of the amp models.  These showed a clean, crunchy and dirty tone for each amp.  The patches have been around a while and may be affected by the latest firmware but may be worth a look.  They can be found here http://line6.com/support/thread/46526 .

    6. As dean says:  the full amp models are best suited to when you plug the HD into a PC or mixing disk.  For your Rocktron setup it may be better to use pre-amp models but try both.   Try also both with and without speaker simulators.   Mic Models will not work if you setup your HD as I suggest in 3 above.

    7. Meambobbo, another forum user, has an excellent document for creating rock and high gain tones if required.   Found here -->  http://line6.com/support/thread/71651
    8. If you have a specific style, artist or song tone in mind, try checking the user-created library of tones here --> http://line6.com/customtone/browse/podhd500/ .  You may be able to find something good as a starting point.

     

    A key point is that the setup of the HD and patches very much depends on what you are plugging it into,  This will differ a lot for plugging into a desk, plugging into a power amp, plugging in for effects only in a four cable setup or whatever.    Keep plugging and come back with specific problems. 


    HTH

     

    JIM

    • DeanDinosaur Iknowathingortwo 443 posts since
      Jul 30, 2009
      Currently Being Moderated
      Jan 8, 2012 4:09 AM (in response to jimsreynolds)
      Re: POD HD Pro - What a Complete Disappointment ?

      You should get 10 Points if not more for this cumulative answer. I'm learning alot more about my pod following you. Thanks

      • Nick_Mattocks Best of the Best 9,065 posts since
        Mar 26, 2007
        Currently Being Moderated
        Jan 8, 2012 4:28 AM (in response to DeanDinosaur)
        Re: POD HD Pro - What a Complete Disappointment ?

        DeanDinosaur wrote:

         

        You should get 10 Points if not more for this cumulative answer. I'm learning alot more about my pod following you. Thanks

        Now this is a guitar related forum.  Everything therefore  goes to 11

         

        Correct Answer = 5 + Helpful Answer = 3 + Heplful Answer = 3.  Total possible points = 11

         

        +1 Good stuff Jim.  Well done.   Yep - you are right, my quick and dirty 16x4 patch list was quickly compiled shortly after the HD500 came out with the original 16 full amp models.  It should still work OK for what was originally intended, but there are more models and some have been changed a bit in later firmware versions.

         

        And of course the HD500 set list can simply be dragged and dropped into POD HD Pro Edit so the patches should work in the Pro with no real problems.

         

        Nick

        • DeanDinosaur Iknowathingortwo 443 posts since
          Jul 30, 2009

            I haven't had my coffee when I wrote that, I might of thought of 11 also.

        • jimsreynolds Power User 2,227 posts since
          Jun 27, 43450

          Nick, I thought your generic patches were a really good idea.  As fluffy says:  the pod defaults are effects-heavy and there is plenty of room for some solid, basic amp-oriented patches like yours to get people going when they are more concerned about a basic tone palette than an FX showcase. I guess the point stands that the patches will need tweaking depending on the output type but having the basic structure in place is good. You should give them a spit-shine for 1.40  

           

          I would be tempted to try putting something together myself but my primary focus is on effects and switching to support my 'real' amp for live use.  I don't have access to good headphones or an FRFR setup.  My main rig is sounding good now and my modelled Combo Power amp ones increasingly so but I cannot produce quality Studio Direct patches right now.

      • jimsreynolds Power User 2,227 posts since
        Jun 27, 43450
        Currently Being Moderated
        Jan 8, 2012 9:24 AM (in response to DeanDinosaur)
        Re: POD HD Pro - What a Complete Disappointment ?

        Thanks Dean.  I learn stuff from people here all the time and not just about Pods specifically.  Good hangout

  • lef38 Just Startin' 34 posts since
    Sep 4, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 8, 2012 8:37 AM (in response to V_Fluffy)
    Re: POD HD Pro - What a Complete Disappointment ?

    Use headphones into the phones output, and in the pod hd setup menu make sure you have studio direct output mode (screen 4/9).

    This will give you a good idea of the best sound quality you can get from your pod.

  • Karl_Houseknecht Expert Line 6 User 3,732 posts since
    Jan 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 13, 2012 7:00 AM (in response to V_Fluffy)
    Re: POD HD Pro - What a Complete Disappointment ?

    V_Fluffy wrote:

     

    I thought I could change to something like an American high gain (Mesa Dual Rectifier) but, unfortunately, it looks like there isn't an amp sim for this yet- great.....

     

    Treadplate.

    • ricksox UberGuru 11,600 posts since
      Mar 28, 2006
      Currently Being Moderated
      Jan 13, 2012 3:41 PM (in response to V_Fluffy)
      Re: POD HD Pro - What a Complete Disappointment ?

      V_Fluffy wrote:

       

      I've plugged my GSP1101 back in and it sounds much better than the HD Pro - this shouldn't be the case. I don't know what is wrong now with the HD Pro or what the settings should be - some sound better than others, but none sound great.

       

      I've tried just about everything now - I'm even going to plug the thing straight into the desk tomorrow to see if that helps but I'm not holding my breath. If this doesn't sound any better, I'm afraid it will be going and I'll be looking at something else. I think 10 days messing around with the thing to get decent sounds out of is enough.

       

      Maybe someone on here knows a simple mistake I'm making - who knows, maybe I just got a duff one.....

       

      I live in hope.

      How exactly are you connecting the POD? I may have missed that so I apologize. Also, on your pateches, make sure that you have the mixer block panned center. That makes a difference IMO.

       

      Rick

  • meambobbo Iknowathingortwo 1,702 posts since
    Dec 13, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 13, 2012 10:58 PM (in response to V_Fluffy)
    Re: POD HD Pro - What a Complete Disappointment ?

    First off make sure you're not clipping your unit:

     

    1) Turn on the tuner.  Select your bridge humbucker.  Make sure your guitar volume is on full.  Strum as hard as you can and listen for clipping in the tone.  If there is clipping, you are either clipping the Pod's input or your amp's input (even if you are running to power amp in).  Turn down the unit's Master knob and see if that eliminates the clipping.  If not, turn down the guitar's volume control and see if that eliminates it.  If it's input volume, you can lower your pickup height or try to use the unit's Pad switch, or even reduce the input impedance setting in the system menu.

     

    2) Turn off all effects in your patch, and just keep the amp model on.  Does the tone have a clipping sound noticeable?  If so, you are probably clipping the overall signal resolution in the Pod. Make sure your mixer levels are set to 0 db for both channels.  Then reduce the amp/channel volume knob until the clipping is gone.  I like to keep this parameter at 50% or less, but that mainly deals with the next source of clipping...

     

    3) Turn on effects one at a time listening for clipping.  Some effects can boost the signal, which may push it over the signal's overall resolution, or cause it to clip your real amp input.  Even if that's not the case, individual effects may exhibit clipping when fed a strong signal, particularly the Parameteric EQ.  Once such effects are identified, position them in the chain where they are given a softer signal.  Set EQ's that cut first and ones that boost last.  If necessary/possible, position them between the amp and mixer, setting amp volume low and boosting via the mixer.

     

    Now for dialing in:

    The JCM800 model takes a bit to dial in.  Ignore it for now.  If you want a similar tone, use the ENGL Fball model.  Some things I like to do with the JCM800 are to always run an overdrive/EQ in front of it to brighten up the tone.  I generally reduce the Bias control and Bias X controls.  Sometimes I push the Master Volume amp parameter to 60-75% to get power amp distortion.  Sometimes I reduce it.

     

    The Uber has a great rich creamy lead tone out the box, but can be terribly muddy sounding if you want a tight tone or metal rhythm.  If you want a Mesa Mark type tone, throw a Studio EQ in front the Uber model, set low freq to 1000HZ and crank it in the +8-10db range.  Set high freq to 200 HZ and set it to -9-11 db.  This completely transforms the amp.  This is my favorite tone in the Pod HD.

     

    Similar techniques will help tighten up the Treadplate and Fball models, and help dial in that perfect distortion tone you're looking for.  The Treadplate and Fball are much less muddy, so I don't usually use a bass cut on them.  Then you can use a Parametric EQ, which helps you find the exact frequency range you want to boost in the mids/upper mids to get a nice distortion.  You have to play around to find the sweet spot, but I just like a subtle change - usually freq 55%, Q 50%, gain 60%.

     

    I find using EQ's a little more transparent and wash out less tone than using Distortion effects as overdrives (drive turned down and gain/output turned up).  However, if you want to try out using a Distortion effect for this purpose, the Screamer and Classic Distortion work well.  Start off leaving the bass control alone or cutting slightly.  Mainly find a balance between tone/filter and highs.  Too much highs can make the amp sound kind of like a blown speaker.  Too much tone (upper mids) can cause the amp to sound a little too much like a cheap stomp box.  The Classic Distortion's filter controls seems to work opposite of the Screamer's tone control - the lower you set them the more bite/djent in the tone.  Finally, I try to use the Classic Distortion as an overdrive more than the Screamer, because the Screamer isn't 100% clean at 0% drive, while the Classic Distortion is.  In a heavily distorted tone, you can't really hear the Screamer's slight breakup, but it can make a lead tone a little rougher than it otherwise would be.

     

    To dial out fizz, I like to use a parametric EQ after the amp and mixer.  I set the gain up to about 75-80% and Q up to about 90%.  I start with frequency around 70% and slowly move up and down from 70 - 100% and try to find the spot that makes the unit sound unbelievably fizzy.  Then I cut that area until the unit no longer sounds fizzy, but don't cut too much or it'll sound muffled.  For me, the spot is usually freq 95%, Q 90%, gain 35%, but it varies for amp models and speaker cabs and mic choices.  Some models are more fizzy than others.  You may want to suck out more than one fizzy spot, using 2 EQ's.  I find 83% is usually a little fizzy for me.  If you find you've lost too much high end, dial it back using one of the EQ's "highs" parameters.  In general, I find the tone is much fizzier when using onboard cab and mic emulation than running out to a power amp without cab/mic emulation...with the exception of the JCM800 model, which seems to have a bit of fizz baked in.  But it can be tamed.

     

    Running out to a real power amp and cabinet, I like to set the output mode to combo power amp and cab model to "no cabinet".  In this mode, there is no mic emulation, which is where the Pod really rounds off the highs.  The cab models are more of a mild EQ'ing.  I don't like to use them because they seem to cut lows and highs out the tone, making it sound a little thin and washed out at the same time.  If your final tone is too bright, try using a Studio EQ at the end and setting high freq to 8000 HZ and cutting a few db.

     

    I tend to use "full" amp models even when running out to a real power amp, then turning down the amp model's "Master Volume" parameter a decent bit, instead of using the "pre" models.  I find the full models have a bit more bite and punch to them.  The pre models kind of sound like the cab models - they are a little thin and washed out at the same time...to my ears.

    • jimsreynolds Power User 2,227 posts since
      Jun 27, 43450
      Currently Being Moderated
      Jan 14, 2012 2:48 AM (in response to meambobbo)
      Re: POD HD Pro - What a Complete Disappointment ?

      meambobbo wrote:

       

      First off make sure you're not clipping your unit:

       

      1) Turn on the tuner.  Select your bridge humbucker.  Make sure your guitar volume is on full.  Strum as hard as you can and listen for clipping in the tone.  If there is clipping, you are either clipping the Pod's input or your amp's input (even if you are running to power amp in).  Turn down the unit's Master knob and see if that eliminates the clipping.  If not, turn down the guitar's volume control and see if that eliminates it.  If it's input volume, you can lower your pickup height or try to use the unit's Pad switch, or even reduce the input impedance setting in the system menu.

      Great tip !!!  Nice diagnostic approach.

  • ciadude2 Just Startin' 46 posts since
    Jan 27, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 7, 2012 4:45 PM (in response to V_Fluffy)
    Re: POD HD Pro - What a Complete Disappointment ?

    A lot of it has to do with your output, as people have stated. It tends to sound better on clean amps, the cleaner the better(I heard one guy have amazing results through a Roland Jazz Chorus).

     

    When I first got mine(I've had a Pod HD500 for a year now) I could only play with headphones because it sounded awful through my 6505+. I even made a thread on here saying I'd like to use it live but it sounds like crud. Found a DT50 2x12 on sale at a local guitar store and nabbed it, and it sounds incredible now. Some people don't like the DT amps... I love mine.

     

    Just food for thought. With my 6505+ though, the closest I got to a good sound was when i just ran it straight into the FX loop. Cheers.

More Like This

  • Retrieving data ...

Bookmarked By (1)

Legend

  • Correct Answers - 5 points
  • Helpful Answers - 3 points