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665 Views 18 Replies Latest reply: Mar 6, 2012 3:31 PM by unclejason RSS
Hydeburns Just Startin'
Hydeburns
1 posts since
Mar 25, 2006
Currently Being Moderated

Feb 3, 2012 5:54 PM

About to Upgrade from the XT to the HD500, quick question

I've been using my Pod XT for years, though it's begininning to show it's age and I was strongly pondering on upgrading to the HD500. But one thing I've been wondering about that could be a dealbreaker for me:

 

 

I have 3 or so of the add ons on my xt (FX Junkie, etc.) that I purchased years ago and make good use of. And I'd really rather not do without them. If I buy an HD500, can I transfer these tone packages from my XT to the HD500? Even if it means deleting them off of the XT?

Tags: podxt, hd500
  • gregr Iknowathingortwo
    gregr
    639 posts since
    Oct 26, 2009
    Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 3, 2012 6:18 PM (in response to Hydeburns)
    Re: About to Upgrade from the XT to the HD500, quick question

    The HD500 is a completely different animal from the previous generation, so the tone packages are not transferable.  As of yet there are no tone packs available for the HD series, but Line 6 has generously provided free firmware upgrades with  additional amp models and other features beyond bug fixes.  The next one (2.0) promises to give more which is very encouraging, though there is no guarantee that this will continue.  I would be surprised if it didn't, however.

     

    There are a few things the XT/X3 can do that the HD500 can't in terms of features and the XT/X3 have a lot more amp models to choose from, but the consensus in this particular forum seems to be that the amp models that are in the HD are superior.

     

    Anyhow, if you look to the right of the page, you'll see similar discussions under the "More Like This" section.

     

    Also, have a look at the Model gallery for the HD500 to see what's in there:

    http://line6.com/data/6/0a060b316ac34f059382eddfc/application/pdf/POD%20HD%20Model%20Gallery%20-%20English%20(%20Rev%20B%20).pdf

     

    Hopefully this can help you determine if you want to upgrade.

  • Nick_Mattocks Best of the Best
    Nick_Mattocks
    9,065 posts since
    Mar 26, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 4, 2012 3:05 AM (in response to Hydeburns)
    Re: About to Upgrade from the XT to the HD500, quick question

    +1 to gregr's response

     

    It might be worth mentioning that you should remember that the HD500 has an FX Loop which would make it possible to insert your POD XT into a specially created NULL patch in the HD500 (i.e. no amp or FX models active except the FX Loop), so it would be possible to continue to use your favourite XT patches for as long as your POD XT continues to live   That way you could have the best of both worlds if you are keeping the XT anyway.

     

    Nick

    • MikeTGreen Just Startin'
      MikeTGreen
      34 posts since
      Feb 18, 2010
      Currently Being Moderated
      Feb 6, 2012 2:48 PM (in response to Nick_Mattocks)
      Re: About to Upgrade from the XT to the HD500, quick question

      Interesting Nick,  I also have an XT Live which I'm happy with and would like to know exactly how to loop that into my HD500.  I'm currently not happy with my HD500 because I'm just not smart enough to do all the required tweaking to get the distortions and overdrives to sound good with my Fender Blues Junior.  Although my XT Live has got some good tones worked out.  So how exactly would I do this?  What cable starts where, goes where and ends where?  Your help would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks, Mike.

      • jimsreynolds Power User
        jimsreynolds
        2,227 posts since
        Jun 27, 43450
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        Feb 6, 2012 4:14 PM (in response to MikeTGreen)
        Re: About to Upgrade from the XT to the HD500, quick question

        Basically, you would plug in your HD500 intop your Blues Junior the same way that you used to plug in your XT now (do you plug into the front or into an FX Loop on the Blues Junior ).

         

        You would then run a cable from the HD FX Loop Send to the XT Input and a second cable from the XT Output to the HD FX Loop left return.

         

        Next you would create a patch on the HD that had the following characteristics:

         

        • No amp model - completely turned off
        • No effects configured except
        • An FX Loop block (this is at the end of the list of effects on the HD)
        • The FX Loop switch at the back would be set to 'Stompbox'
        • The Systemp input configuration on the HD would be set to Input 1 = Guitar, Input 2 = Variax (gets the level down a bit and cuts noise - this step is optional but probably sensible
        • Set the HD Output mode to anything except Combo Front or Stack Front.
        • On the mixer:  pan both the left and right inputs to centre and set to 0dB.  You may need to tweak this level later.

         

        When you want to use the XT just switch to this patch.  You may find that the signal sent out to your XT is a bit on the weak side.  If so, put a Studio EQ effect directly before the FX Loop effect within your 'XT' patch and turn up the gain parameter (only) by about 11dB. try without first.

         

        There may be some more to this if you want to plug your HD into the front of your amp and use Amp Modelling on the HD but this is a starting point.

        • MikeTGreen Just Startin'
          MikeTGreen
          34 posts since
          Feb 18, 2010
          Currently Being Moderated
          Feb 7, 2012 12:18 PM (in response to jimsreynolds)
          Re: About to Upgrade from the XT to the HD500, quick question

          Thanks for your suggestion Jim,

          I'll try this out later on this week and post the results.  I messed around more with the HD today and it's sounding better because I'm starting to tweak it more.  I think I'm starting to like it.

          Thanks again,

          Mike

        • MikeTGreen Just Startin'
          MikeTGreen
          34 posts since
          Feb 18, 2010
          Currently Being Moderated
          Feb 7, 2012 2:41 PM (in response to jimsreynolds)
          Re: About to Upgrade from the XT to the HD500, quick question

          OK Jim I couldn't wait a couple of days and I've been dying to try this out.  I used your suggestions except I used my headphones so I didn't wake

          up my son.  It works and I'm so happy.  Thank you so much.  I can't wait to try it later cranked up with the amp.  I do have a few more questions, so please excuse my ignorance when it comes to all this technical terminology.  But first to answer your question, my XT or HD500 is plugged into my Blues Junior guitar input since it has no FX loop.

           

          1) Why can't the HD Output mode Combo Front as when I'm using the HD500 patches?  So I used Studio/Direct for the loop set.  Can I

              use Studio/Direct output for the amp so I don't have to bend over in the middle of a set to change the output mode to go back to the HD500?

           

          2) I'm still learning about the FX and amp placement in the signal chain.  Does it matter where that FX loop block is?  In HD500 edit I placed it

              to the far right block and put the EQ to the left of it and it seams to work OK.  Is that all right?

           

          3) I'm also building a seperate analog pedal board.  Would I use this same FX loop method to tie it into the HD500?

           

          4) I'm not sure I like the HD500 Wah FX.  But It may be because I need to learn how to tweak them also.  I have an Ibanez WD7 Wah pedal.

              I tried using it with the HD500 and it sounded really bad.  I plugged it into the Guitar Input.  Is there some trick to that also?

           

          Anybody else feel free to set me straight also.

           

          Thanks Again,

          Mike 

          • jimsreynolds Power User
            jimsreynolds
            2,227 posts since
            Jun 27, 43450
            Currently Being Moderated
            Feb 8, 2012 12:58 AM (in response to MikeTGreen)
            Re: About to Upgrade from the XT to the HD500, quick question

            I will take the first question last !

             

            2 - If you are using the FX block just to wire in your XT then I suggest place it in the middle, before the mixer.  If you plan to use the FX Loop with additional pedals then the order is important as HD effects placed before the block or after the block will be heard before or after your loop effects.

             

            3 - Yes, you can use the FX loop  for analog stompboxes.  Or you can place them before or after the HD.  It depends on where you want them in the effects chain.  there is a document here relating to something called the four cable method -->http://line6.com/support/docs/DOC-2523.  Unfortunately you cannot use 4CM with your amp but the information around where effects should be placed may be interesting and informative.

             

            4 - The Wah FX are a bit brash with their default settings.  Two good tips (nicked from others but effective). 

            • First, turn the mix down from 100% to something like 60-70%.  Having some of the original signal in the sound makes it more natural
            • Second, experiment with using the expression pedal Min and Max parameters to set the range for  the wah.  Having the full range can sound bad on some wahs and the nice bit is in the middle somewhere.

             

            Back to point 1:  the problem with the 'Front' modes is that they add an additional EQ curve in for the benefit of the HD Amp models ... even if a patch is not using an amp model.  Therefore, if you are using the HD for Effects only, the EQ is still there and may mess up the tone of the amp.

             

            Many amps have an FX Loop and this allows you to connect up the HD in such a way as to avoid using the Front Modes completely.  On review:  The Blues Junior has no loop so we  need to work with what we have.

             

            I would say:  if you plan to use the HD for effects only, then avoid the 'front' modes if you can.  However, if you plan to use amp models it is possible to find a balance with 'combo front' mode. 

             

            • Make sure your amp tone is as clean as you can get it before you start - i.e amp 'volume'  fairly low ... the amp 'master'can be high.
            • Turn the Bass/Middle/treble to a centre position or lower - some people suggest turning them all the way down. 
            • Create a 'blank' patch and switch on one of the full amp models.
            • Go into  the System settings and change the mode to 'Combo Front'.  Now try adjusting the EQs that are parameters within the 'Front' mode and see if you can get the amp to sound fairly natural to you. You may need to come back to this step, testing with other amps. 
            • Once you think you have got the EQ about right, try switching back to your  XT Patch and make sure that this sounds fairly natural too.

             

            Trial and error is the key and this is a starting point.   Any other Blues Junior users on the forum that want to chip in here?

            • MikeTGreen Just Startin'
              MikeTGreen
              34 posts since
              Feb 18, 2010
              Currently Being Moderated
              Feb 10, 2012 2:29 PM (in response to jimsreynolds)
              Re: About to Upgrade from the XT to the HD500, quick question

              Thanks again for your reply Jim, I really appreciate your help.

              I started tweaking more and found that the HD sounds better with my BJ amp EQ's all set at zero.  I had them at number 6 since that

              is what was suggested for my XT Live and sounds good with it.  Thanks for all your other suggestions.  I will start working on some

              more this weekend.

               

              One thing I noticed that I can't seem to clear up is that on a distortion, overdrive or high gain patch that there is some residual fuzz sound briefly after the sound has decayed.  It almost sounds a little like my speaker is rattling or blown.  It doesn't do it with my XT or just plain amp cranked with the overdrive.  Any ideas?

               

              This may seem a little ignorant, but I don't know which way the signal travels through the effects chain yet.  I just found the manual for the HD500 edit under the help menu and there is a lot to read, although I will.  I assume it flows from left to right and by your suggestion of placing the FX loop before the mixer would be to the left side of the null amp.  Is that correct?

               

              And the EQ would after that between the FX loop and null amp.  Is that correct?

               

              Thanks,

              Mike

              • jimsreynolds Power User
                jimsreynolds
                2,227 posts since
                Jun 27, 43450
                Currently Being Moderated
                Feb 10, 2012 3:05 PM (in response to MikeTGreen)
                Re: About to Upgrade from the XT to the HD500, quick question

                Gregr pointed out on another thread that the best way to get a flat tone response on most amps is to turn the bass and treble all the way down and the middle all the way up.,  I saw a tone modelling program that bears this out so it may well be worth a try.

                 

                On the buzz/rattle.   Two things spring to mind.  First:  a noise gate somewhere in the setup can have that sound when it decays sometimes so if you have one of those turned on somewhere then turn it off and see how it sounds.. 

                 

                Second, as soon as you start doing these fancy hookups then gain becomes a real issue and if it is not right can have some nasty side effects.  Make sure the XT does njot have it's output switched to line or something like that.  For testing, you would be as well to have a completely blank patch on the XT too and see if you still get the same sound.  Try switching the HD FX Loop on and off and make sure the levels sound about the same.

                 

                The signal chain does indeed travel left to right.  Really, with a completely blank patch you should be able to put the FX Loop anywhere.,  I  suggested before the mixer because it allows you to crank up the volume at the end of the patch after all the other processing rather than risk distorting the signal going into the XT.

                 

                So the signal chain would go: 

                 

                     Studio EQ -->  FX Loop --> (Null Amp) -->  Mixer

                 

                Again, try toggling the studio EQ off and see if that helps with your buzz.

                • MikeTGreen Just Startin'
                  MikeTGreen
                  34 posts since
                  Feb 18, 2010
                  Currently Being Moderated
                  Feb 10, 2012 6:49 PM (in response to jimsreynolds)
                  Re: About to Upgrade from the XT to the HD500, quick question

                  OK, I will try all these suggestions sometime this weekend and post the results.  Although the buzzing, hissing whatever it is, is only in the HD500 all by itself with or without the XT looped in or even connected.  I do have noise gates in all the patches with distortions so I will look at that along with the routing of all the FX in the chain.  Thanks again and have a great weekend. 

                • MikeTGreen Just Startin'
                  MikeTGreen
                  34 posts since
                  Feb 18, 2010
                  Currently Being Moderated
                  Feb 12, 2012 3:35 PM (in response to jimsreynolds)
                  Re: About to Upgrade from the XT to the HD500, quick question

                  OK Jim, I tried a few more of your suggestions.  Here's an update.  I changed the output mode from combo to studio/direct.  I changed my Blues Junior amp bass and treble knobs from 6, which worked great for my XT, to zero and left the middle on 6.  I'm still tweaking this a little.  Now I'm starting to like the sound more.  I'm going to start with just the plain amp models, cabinets or just pre-amp models and minimally add FX as I need.  The amps really seem to sound crisp and vibrant now.  So I will try to use crunchy or higher gain amps for my driving patches without adding any distortion FX, maybe just some compression.  It's all experimental but I feel like I'm getting somewhere now.  I haven't messed around with your new suggestion settings for that FX loop to the

                  XT yet.  I'll let you know what happens.  Thanks for all your continued help and patience.

  • smash979 Just Startin'
    smash979
    18 posts since
    Mar 17, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 4, 2012 8:56 PM (in response to Hydeburns)
    Re: About to Upgrade from the XT to the HD500, quick question

    I upgraded from an XT as well, and was in the same boat as you.  I kept my XT pretty much just in case I wanted to use the bass models. I can say I kind of miss the Deizel not being on the 500, but that's about it.  Now, my XT is sitting infront of me, plugged into my micro cube for when I want to be quieter an in front of my tv.

  • DeanDinosaur Iknowathingortwo
    DeanDinosaur
    443 posts since
    Jul 30, 2009
    Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 10, 2012 8:33 PM (in response to Hydeburns)
    Re: About to Upgrade from the XT to the HD500, quick question

    I had the XT and X3 and I have no hesitation in recommending the HD500.  I can't play POD FARM anymore (which is essentionally the same as the XT/X3. It just sounds like a toy in comparison to the HD. Don't get me wrong, the XT is quite useable, but the amp models are clearly inferior to those in the HD series. The sound, the way it responds to the fingers, the HD500 is simply newer generation modeling that is capable of producing much more convincing tones. Once you get into the flexibility of being able to place 8 effects anywhere in the chain, Two Modulations, Two overdrives, 2 reverbs or two delay or whatever you like, while being able to control as many effects with one switch, or assigning the conroller to as many parameters as you like, the creative possibilities are unprecedented and can never be done with XT or X3 ....As mentioned the HD is still eveloving with full support from line 6 new amps with new firmware. Give it a shot and see how you  mesh with it . If not you still have a month to return in the U.S, but I highly doubt that you will prefer the XT.

    • MikeTGreen Just Startin'
      MikeTGreen
      34 posts since
      Feb 18, 2010
      Currently Being Moderated
      Feb 11, 2012 5:14 AM (in response to DeanDinosaur)
      Re: About to Upgrade from the XT to the HD500, quick question

      Thanks for your encouragement Dean,  I'm really trying to be optimistic and give this thing a try.

      I actually bought my HD500 used on craigslist.  I paid $350.00 and it came with a carrying case.  I have the original sales receipt and it still has the warranty but

      I cannot return it since it was originally purchased in July of 2011.  It may be superior to my XT but the fact is so far my XT does sound better with my current

      amp.  I think the main problem with the HD500 is, my lack of understanding and it has so many learning curves and variables to make it work with my amp, that

      it takes so much more time than I have to mess with it. I'm not a professional musician.  I'm a 47 year old family man and business owner.  I only have two to

      four hours a week of playing time which I'd rather spend keeping up my chops or learning new songs for my church praise and worship band.  All the demos I

      see sound great. That's why I took the plunge.  But they all seem to be playing through those DT series amps and I'm not ready to fork out the coin for one

      of those babies yet.  My 15 watt Fender Blues Junior amp is already way too loud for my man cave at home.  It seems this thing is better paired with another

      Line 6 product.  I had another post asking if anyone has used this with a BJ amp and could share their settings, but I haven't got any responses so far.

      Jim Reynolds above has been bending over backwards to help me out and I give many thanks to him for his efforts.  I'll keep trying for a little while longer, but I

      really want to start playing again instead of sitting in front of HD500 edit.

  • unclejason Just Startin'
    unclejason
    49 posts since
    Oct 13, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 15, 2012 10:44 AM (in response to Hydeburns)
    Re: About to Upgrade from the XT to the HD500, quick question

    I'm with you Mike. I've had my XT Live for about the past 2 years or more and I've spent so much time creating and tweaking tones and I'm very happy with what I've created. In fact, I almost bought the metal pack as the amps are HD, but I decided to plunge and get the HD500 last weekend. I'm sure once I learn it and master my tones I'll be glad but there's that initial phase of frustration I think we all go through. I DO like the HD500 Treadplate (with the Uber 4x12 and 87 condenser mic) for metal! Funny cause I was religiously using the XT Live's Treadplate for metal tones.

  • unclejason Just Startin'
    unclejason
    49 posts since
    Oct 13, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 6, 2012 3:31 PM (in response to Hydeburns)
    Re: About to Upgrade from the XT to the HD500, quick question

    I'm revisting this thread because although I've dialed in some decent tones for metal with the HD500 I'm still really on the fence about using the HD500 or my XT Live for the recording project I'm working on (solo metal album). I like the feel of the HD500 better, if that makes sense. However, I've re-recorded a couple of tracks using the HD500 and when I compare the mixdown, my recordings with the XT Live actually sound a little better than the HD500 tracks. Strange, I know. I must say I did spent a ton of time perfecting my XT Live tones. But I may continue using the XT Live for this project I'm working on; maybe by then I'll have tweaked better tones with the HD500 and will use it for the next project.

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