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1316 Views 11 Replies Latest reply: Mar 29, 2012 10:37 AM by MikeTGreen RSS
MikeTGreen Just Startin'
MikeTGreen
34 posts since
Feb 18, 2010
Currently Being Moderated

Mar 9, 2012 9:07 AM

HD500 SETUP WITH OTHER PEDALS

Can anyone give me some suggestions on the best way to setup patches with an FX loop for external pedals.  Below are some links of what I want to do also.  I will have two different amps I'll be using, but not at the same  time.  I currently have a Fender Blues Junior tube amp with a single guitar input and a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe tube amp that has the FX loop in and outs.  I like the sound of my amps, my overdrive and compressor pedals, so I only want to use the HD500 for the volume pedal, maybe the wah, chorus, delays etc.  Can I do this without coloring the sound of my amps and pedals too much?  Thanks for you help, Mike

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkgQP8vZ_zE

 

http://line6.com/support/message/250855

  • Nick_Mattocks Best of the Best
    Nick_Mattocks
    9,065 posts since
    Mar 26, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 9, 2012 9:43 AM (in response to MikeTGreen)
    Re: HD500 SETUP WITH OTHER PEDALS

    Hi

     

    It's a subjective thing when it comes to tonal coloration.  Personally, I think if you want the HD500 in there you should try before you buy with your existing gear to be sure it will deliver what you want without sucking your tone.  Again, personally, I would say that the HD500 can do a good job used in the way that you want with minimal to no tone suck, but every amp and player combination is different, so only you can really make the final call based on what you hear.

     

    You might find that the M9 or M13 FX only units will suit your needs better.  I still have my M13 and I think it's a great unit when used with a traditional one trick pony type amp such as my Marshall JVM (well perhaps one trick pony isn't quite the right description, but what I mean really is that I'm not using a number of significantly different amps or models for significantly different core sounds).  The HD500 is similarly priced to the M13 and has all the exact same M series FX as the M13 plus amp modelling if you want it, but the HD500 doesn't do True Bypass whereas the M13 does (however for me a buffered bypass works very well and I never use True Bypass on the M13)

     

    Nick

  • jimsreynolds Power User
    jimsreynolds
    2,227 posts since
    Jun 27, 43450
    Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 9, 2012 10:04 AM (in response to MikeTGreen)
    Re: HD500 SETUP WITH OTHER PEDALS

    Mike

     

    With the Blues Junior the only option I think you have is to plug your HD500 into the front of it. 

     

    • Guitar --> HD Guitar In
    • HD 1/4" Left Out --> Amp Input

     

    You can place your other pedals anyware in the chain but I would suggest

     

    • Wah/volume/distortions etc in front of the HD
    • Delays after the HD
    • Modulation (chorus etc) either side

     

    If all you want to use is FX then make sure your output type is set to studio direct and that the amp model is turned off (the Combo Front and Stack Front modes work well when you use amp modelling but are counter productive for FX only).

     

    Try setting

     

    • Master Volume=100%
    • Mixer Channel A = 0dB, panned centre
    • Mixer Channel B = Off (turned all the way down).

     

    You might also consider moving the mixer to the very end of the FX chain (move all the effects in front of it!) this means that you can tweak the final level of the patch easily without risking clipping effects that are downstream of the mixer..

     

    On the Hotrod deluxe there are more options.  You can go with the front approach again, or put the whole HD in the loop, but you should also consider 4CM as this allows you to place HD Effects wherever you want them.  Take a look at the document here which explains the general approach to effects placement and why 4CM is used by some of us.http://line6.com/support/docs/DOC-2504

     

    Cheers

     

    JIM

    • MikeTGreen Just Startin'
      MikeTGreen
      34 posts since
      Feb 18, 2010
      Currently Being Moderated
      Mar 16, 2012 6:07 AM (in response to jimsreynolds)
      Re: HD500 SETUP WITH OTHER PEDALS

      Thanks again Jim.  This is the same Mike you've helped to get my HD500 to work with the Blues Junior until it died on me.  Well it's back and so far I am very happy with what I have got set up.  Since I'm only using my amp, I want it clean. I set my gain volume on 3, fat switch off, treble 9, bass 4, middle 7, master 4 (for bedroom level)  reverb off since I'm using HD's reverb's.

       

      My guitar > Keeley Compressor > Fulltone OCD > HD500 Input.  The HD500 output is set to studio/direct.  I'm still not sure whether to set the 1/4" out switch to line or amp.  The only difference in tone that I can hear is the line setting is louder.  Any comment on this?  So far all my mixer channel input are panned center @ 0db.  I haven't tried turning off channel B as you suggested.  When I get time back in my man cave I will try this and let you know.

       

      I wanted to try the FX loop for my pedals like the way you told me for linking in my XTLive.  Should I use that same patch or is it different.  This part is still a little confusing to me.

      In HD500 edit, a blank effects chain starts from left to right.  There are 4 blocks to the left of the amp/mixer and 4 blocks to the right.

      Where do I put the FX loop, chorus, delays and reverb's within this chain?

       

      I haven't got my Hot Rod Deluxe yet but when I do, I'll either go into the input as with the BJ or use that 4CM method.

       

      Thanks,

      Mike

      • jimsreynolds Power User
        jimsreynolds
        2,227 posts since
        Jun 27, 43450
        Currently Being Moderated
        Mar 16, 2012 6:35 AM (in response to MikeTGreen)
        Re: HD500 SETUP WITH OTHER PEDALS

        Hi again Mike !

         

        MikeTGreen wrote:

         

        The HD500 output is set to studio/direct.  I'm still not sure whether to set the 1/4" out switch to line or amp.  The only difference in tone that I can hear is the line setting is louder.  Any comment on this?  So far all my mixer channel input are panned center @ 0db.  I haven't tried turning off channel B as you suggested.  When I get time back in my man cave I will try this and let you know.

         

        You should Use 'Amp' on the 1/4 switch.  You are at risk of clipping the input on the Blues Junior if you select 'Line'  this shouldn't do any damage but normally wouldn't sound too good.  Of course, if it sounds OK to you then I don't think there is a real problem with it staying on line.


        Suggestion:   try playing

         

        -  First with just the guitar into the amp

        -  Second with the pod (on a blank patch) and all the pedals (turned off)

         

        Is there a big volume difference between the two?  Try tweaking the mixer on the Pod until the levels seem about the same.  I know this can be a little tricky to hear the relative volume level and it may be helpful to have the amp right on the edge of distortion so you can hear how it sounds with/without the pedals inline more clearly.


        With the pedals in the loop:  yes, make sure the loop level is set to 'Stomp' and use the left-hand return socket.  Loop mix should be at 100% as before.

         

        Having the pedals in the loop means that you can switch them in and out of the chain when you change patch on the pod - it is not essential though and they should work just fine up front provided your cables are not mega long (> 30 feet) or poor quality.

         

        MikeTGreen wrote:

         

        In HD500 edit, a blank effects chain starts from left to right.  There are 4 blocks to the left of the amp/mixer and 4 blocks to the right.

        Where do I put the FX loop, chorus, delays and reverb's within this chain?

         

         

        The four blocks can be 'dragged' either side of the amp block.  However, for your effects only setup you don't need to worry about the amp block cause you re not using it.  This makes things simpler.  Can I suggest that you drag all the blocks to the left so the mixer is at the end of the chain.  This makes it easier to set the final level.

         

        Put whatever effects you want in, in the order that you would like them applied.  The signal moves from left to right.  As a classic FX order ...

         

        • Compressors, distortions and wahs tend to go at the front of the chain.
        • Modulations tend to go in the middle (Phaser, chorus etc)
        • Reverbs and echoes tend to go at the back of the chain
        • Pitch and Harmony effects near the beginning (they need a strong relatively clean signal)
        • EQs can go wherever you want them.
        • Noise gates at the beginning.
        • Weird filters ... well wherever they seem to work best !!! Maybe near the front.
        • FX Loop (if you decide to use it and with your OD and compressor )  front of the chain.
        • MikeTGreen Just Startin'
          MikeTGreen
          34 posts since
          Feb 18, 2010
          Currently Being Moderated
          Mar 17, 2012 6:16 AM (in response to jimsreynolds)
          Re: HD500 SETUP WITH OTHER PEDALS

          OK Jim,

          I tried the FX Loop and I think the front input approach works best.  The FX loop seemed to be a bit noisy.  I did add a noise gate but, I did not like the reduction in tone.

          In my opinion, those are tone killers.  If you have any suggestions for which gate works best and some setting recommendations, feel free to set me straight and I'll give it another try.

          Overall, I'm starting to like my new setup now .  Thanks for holding my hand through all this and unless you have any other suggestions, we'll consider this post answered.

          Thanks,

          Mike

          • jimsreynolds Power User
            jimsreynolds
            2,227 posts since
            Jun 27, 43450
            Currently Being Moderated
            Mar 17, 2012 3:36 PM (in response to MikeTGreen)
            Re: HD500 SETUP WITH OTHER PEDALS

            The effects loop would normally be pretty quiet if you have your Loop Level set to 'Stomp' and you were using batteries to power your pedals.  If you were to use power supplies for your pedals then yeah, things might get a bit noisy if there are problems with the PSUs (ground loops and/or poor filtering on the PSU).

             

            To be honest:   unless you are having trouble quickly changing your stomps and HD500 over quickly mid song I would go with the stomps in front at this point.  If you are having problems then we can work through them.

            • MikeTGreen Just Startin'
              MikeTGreen
              34 posts since
              Feb 18, 2010
              Currently Being Moderated
              Mar 24, 2012 4:09 AM (in response to jimsreynolds)
              Re: HD500 SETUP WITH OTHER PEDALS

              Jim,

              I currently have new batteries in the the two stomps and have the loop level set to stomp.  My patch cables and all other cables are Mogami Golds.  My Strat is an American Deluxe with SCN noiseless pickups.  I'll try working with the levels of the compressor a little and the HD500 noise gates to see if I can keep the tone as natural as possible.  I have been reading about the ISP Decimator and seen some demos where there was no noticeable tone loss.

              http://www.guitarcenter.com/ISP-Technologies-Decimator-Noise-Reduction-Pedal-101364214-i1372410.gc

              Do you have any thoughts or opinions on these?

               

              But my ultimate goal is to use a power supply when I get the Pedal Train Pro to mount all this stuff on.

              This is what I've been researching. http://www.guitarcenter.com/Voodoo-Lab-Pedal-Power-2--Power-Supply-100362633-i1124744.gc

              It has two power inputs for Line6 devices but I'm not sure yet if that would include the HD500.  Do you have any thoughts or opinions on these?

               

              Thanks,

              Mike

              • jimsreynolds Power User
                jimsreynolds
                2,227 posts since
                Jun 27, 43450
                Currently Being Moderated
                Mar 24, 2012 5:27 AM (in response to MikeTGreen)
                Re: HD500 SETUP WITH OTHER PEDALS

                I have heard really good things about the decimators.  Guys and gals over on the JVM Forum sing their praises regularly.  If you go for the GString version it can gate both the noise coming from your guitar and high gain pre-amp noise into the loop also so those are particularly popular.

                 

                The Pedal Power 2 is great for stomps but, on it's own, cannot supply enough current for a POD.  However, the unit has a 'slave' power socket built in which you could then plug your POD PSU into which means you only need the one power lead running from the wall to pedalboard.  Slightly bulkier than using the Pedal Power alone but I have not seen any equivalent product to the Pedal power that is able to supply enough power safely for a Pod HD.  Happy to stand corrected if someone knows of something .

                 

                Surprised that you are getting so much noise though really.   May be some kind of ground loop.  Might be work unplugging the HD from the amp and listening on headphones.  Do you get the same amount of Noise?

                • MikeTGreen Just Startin'
                  MikeTGreen
                  34 posts since
                  Feb 18, 2010
                  Currently Being Moderated
                  Mar 29, 2012 10:37 AM (in response to jimsreynolds)
                  Re: HD500 SETUP WITH OTHER PEDALS

                  Jim,

                   

                  I tried the headphones and it has the same noise.  I've been doing some more tweaking and I like my two pedals going into the guitar input.  It almost sounds exactly the way it does just going straight into my amp without going through the HD500.  I was able to get my compressor noise down to an acceptable level without using a gate.  I only use it for leads.  I adjusted my Sustain knob to 12 o'clock and my level know to 9 o'clock.  I still might try the decimator anyway.  I'll let you know how it goes.  I've even adjusted the HD500 spring reverb effect to sound almost identical to my amps spring reverb.  Working with the HD500 Edit is really nice.  As far as the power supply goes,  I guess I'll deal with that when I get the pedal train board to mount everything to.

                   

                  Thanks again,

                  Mike

              • Akeron Just Startin'
                Akeron
                224 posts since
                Jul 23, 2011
                Currently Being Moderated
                Mar 24, 2012 5:45 AM (in response to MikeTGreen)
                Re: HD500 SETUP WITH OTHER PEDALS

                Mike you could have a look at this

                 

                http://www.frugalguitarist.com/post/2011/12/11/5-POD-HD500-Programming-Tips-Part-2.aspx

                 

                There's a specific section on the FX Loop hiss, which I think is your problem

                 

                 

                 


                • MikeTGreen Just Startin'
                  MikeTGreen
                  34 posts since
                  Feb 18, 2010
                  Currently Being Moderated
                  Mar 29, 2012 10:21 AM (in response to Akeron)
                  Re: HD500 SETUP WITH OTHER PEDALS

                  Thanks Akeron for your suggestion.  I tried turning off the trails feature and it didn't change anything.  So far it sounds better with my two stomps straight into the guitar input.

                  If you have anymore suggestions, I'll give those a try.

                  Thanks,

                  Mike

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