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2464 Views 19 Replies Latest reply: Mar 19, 2012 11:43 PM by mrscaryz RSS
meistsf Just Startin'
meistsf
26 posts since
Feb 6, 2007
Currently Being Moderated

Jan 14, 2011 12:29 PM

Satin finish on JTV 69 neck

Just fyi for anybody like me who prefers a more slippery gloss neck over the satin finish that the 69 has.  My old V600 had a pretty thick and slick clear lacquer finish that imparted a somewhat yellow hue to the maple neck.  The JTV neck appears to be a different finish, almost a coelescing type of finish that doesn't color the maple, but also feels a bit satiny rather than shiny and slick.  Looks and feels like a waterbased laquer.

 

So,  I took out my automotive rubbing compounds and hand rubbed the neck a bit to bring back a smoother gloss finish.  The color won't change, but the feel certainly does, and I like it a bunch better.  If you have a hankering to do this, use a good quality glaze that is meant to bring out a mirror finish.  I use this on a lot of the furniture I make.  Automotive paint stores are the best source for good rubbing compounds.

 

SFM

Tags: variax, james_tyler_variax, jtv, jtv69, tyler_variax
  • variaxlover Just Startin'
    variaxlover
    323 posts since
    May 19, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 14, 2011 12:49 PM (in response to meistsf)
    Re: Satin finish on JTV 69 neck

    I prefer a slick neck too (sometimes we seem to be in the minority) and didn't like the feel of the JTV-69 I played AT ALL.  But I know nothing about refinishing wood and I am confused about a couple of your statements.  You mentioned a rubbing compound and then you say "use a good quality glaze that is meant to bring out a mirror finish".  Is this a separate product, or a property of the rubbing compound?


    Also if you could provide more detail, such as what kind of cloth, sandpaper, or whatever you're using, how much time or how many strokes to use, etc., it would be greatly appreciated by MANY people.  Some of us afraid to try something like this because (as you can tell from my questions) we don't know how to approach it.

     

    Thanks!!

    • pappywatts Just Startin'
      pappywatts
      79 posts since
      Apr 26, 2006
      Currently Being Moderated
      Jan 14, 2011 3:35 PM (in response to variaxlover)
      Re: Satin finish on JTV 69 neck

      I'll be presumptous and answer this....

       

      Guitar Finishes are generally nowdays a two part polyester spray coat with added hardeners, traditional finishes on vintage guitars were cellulose or more commonly known as Nitro...The paint finishes are very similar in content to the automotive paints used in touch up spray cans, and likewise respond to buffing with automotive rubbing compounds.These are a creamy resin based polish available in various grades for removing scratches and final sealing, Auto Glym is a fairly common brand in the UK. Avoid all polishes that have silicone content, ie. most household polishes.

      You wouldn't be using sandpaper on a finished car or guitar, more likely to be using fine wet and dry emery paper 1200 to 1500 grade. A buffing cloth can be an old  cotton T shirt cut up into wads, for hand finishing.If you can polish and buff a car paint finish, a guitar is a fairly simple task to restore.

    • meistsf Just Startin'
      meistsf
      26 posts since
      Feb 6, 2007
      Currently Being Moderated
      Jan 14, 2011 3:35 PM (in response to variaxlover)
      Re: Satin finish on JTV 69 neck

      I would be honored to help people out.  Just so you know, I used to build and finish guitars (electrics) and another luthier turned me on to the methods to get those beautiful finishes.  Now I make mostly furniture and for the really high end stuff, I use these techniques on tabletops and things that need that extra gloss.

       

      I was incorrect in my wording with respect to "glaze".  I have a product in my hand right now.  3M product.  name is Finesse-it II finishing material.  Part number 05928.    It is a icro abrasive.  You don't want to use sandpaper, even micrograde sandpaper.  that will be too rough.  The condition of the neck is good enough for just a good rub down with this stuff.  it comes in a big plastic bottle, and I am worried that if you buy the bottle you will be buying 99.98 percent more than you need.  All you need is about the same as a line of mustard on your hot dog (this is a liquid).

       

      I suggest you go to your nearest or favorite autobody repair shop and ask for a dab of rubbing compound by referencing this product.  If they are nice they will give you a little.  Then, hand rub the compound on the neck with adequate pressure,  follow that up with using a rag or paper towel and rub some more.  As far as "strokes" go, rub it for a few minutes and wipe it off and look at the results.  If you are really nervous, rub a tiny bit on a little spot and look at the results.

       

      An autobody shop can help too.  This is real easy.  You can do this with confidence because the finish has had ample time to set.  Many finishes are best rubbed out maybe 30 days after they were applied.  I have a good feeling that these necks were completed 30 days ago.

       

      Good luck.

  • RichRenken Iknowathingortwo
    RichRenken
    1,917 posts since
    Apr 19, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 15, 2011 2:18 AM (in response to meistsf)
    Re: Satin finish on JTV 69 neck

    Just curious, why do you like a glossy finish? I find it to feel sticky and grab my thumb.

    • jealousblues Just Startin'
      jealousblues
      84 posts since
      Feb 11, 2007
      Currently Being Moderated
      Jan 15, 2011 2:43 AM (in response to RichRenken)
      Re: Satin finish on JTV 69 neck

      They just feel better

       

      I cant explain it

      and if you keep it polished and waxed its SMOOTH as can be (unless you are playing outside, then they can get sticky if its hot)

       

       

      I just dont like the feel of satin finishes

      They feel cheap to me (I know they are not as ive had some expensive guitars with them) for some reason

       

       

       

      also, as you probably know, some necks feel stickier than others (for some reason)

      • RichRenken Iknowathingortwo
        RichRenken
        1,917 posts since
        Apr 19, 2008
        Currently Being Moderated
        Jan 15, 2011 2:52 AM (in response to jealousblues)
        Re: Satin finish on JTV 69 neck

        jealousblues wrote:

         

        They just feel better

         

        I cant explain it

        and if you keep it polished and waxed its SMOOTH as can be (unless you are playing outside, then they can get sticky if its hot)

         

         

        I just dont like the feel of satin finishes

        They feel cheap to me (I know they are not as ive had some expensive guitars with them) for some reason

         

         

         

        also, as you probably know, some necks feel stickier than others (for some reason)

         

        Thank you so much for your take, I do understand.

         

        I play a US Lakland Joe Osborne with a flat finish on the neck. If you asked me why I like satin necks, I could answer as follows.

         

        --------

         

        They just feel better

         

        I can't explain it

        and if you keep it flat by using steel wool or a bit of 500 grit sand paper it's SMOOTH as can be (even when you are playing outside, it doesn't get sticky if it is hot)

         

        I just don't like the feel of glossy finishes

        They feel cheap to me (I know they are not as I've had some expensive guitars with them) for some reason

         

        also, as you probably know, some glossy necks feel stickier than others (for some reason) but flat necks always feel smooth

        • wfjones Just Startin'
          wfjones
          45 posts since
          Nov 30, 2008
          Currently Being Moderated
          Jan 15, 2011 3:05 AM (in response to RichRenken)
          Re: Satin finish on JTV 69 neck

          Ha!

           

          I've always liked satin finished necks better, but I'd be hard pressed to give some real reasons why.

        • jealousblues Just Startin'
          jealousblues
          84 posts since
          Feb 11, 2007
          Currently Being Moderated
          Jan 15, 2011 3:12 AM (in response to RichRenken)
          Re: Satin finish on JTV 69 neck

          then again my number 1 guitar is my Warmoth transplant (honestly I like it 99% of the time)

          and it has/had a thin nitro finish on the neck which is now somewhat worn off in areas

           

          so I might not be the best one to talk ;-)

           

           

          like, when I had it finished I they stained it so it wasnt so white and its quite obvious looking at it where its there an where it isnt.

          but its by far my favorite neck

           

          I wonder how bad that finish situation is for the guitar?

        • litesnsirens Iknowathingortwo
          litesnsirens
          649 posts since
          Mar 20, 2010
          Currently Being Moderated
          Feb 28, 2012 6:16 AM (in response to RichRenken)
          Re: Satin finish on JTV 69 neck

          I have to agree with Rich on this one.  Glossy finish = sticky feel.  I like no finish at all with the Satin finish coming in second and glossy, well unless I can sand it off I wouldn't buy the guitar.  There is no comparison, if you like the gloss then you don't mind a gummy, sticky feel to the neck or maybe even you like or prefer it.  I'm sure some guys with their style like to feel somewhat anchored to the neck.  It's a very perosnal thing.  I'm sure there are even those that don't care how it feels they just want it to look shiny and finished.  I get that too.  But there is no argument about which feels smoother and less sticky to play.  I first got turned on to the no finish when I had my wolfgang, now I can't go back to a finished neck.

          • variaxlover Just Startin'
            variaxlover
            323 posts since
            May 19, 2007
            Currently Being Moderated
            Feb 28, 2012 7:35 AM (in response to litesnsirens)
            Re: Satin finish on JTV 69 neck

            Sorry my friend, I agree with many of the things you write on other topics but this time you are wrong.  You shouldn't make such absolute proclamations about neck finishes without checking with other players, and considering that not every player has the same body chemistry as you.  For me and many others, glossy finish = a fast, slick neck, while the raw wood or satin finish only slows us down.  I have very dry hands and never leave a "gummy, sticky" residue on my guitar necks.  However when I used to let other guys play my guitars, I would feel what you're talking about (and it was gross).  So maybe it's a matter of body chemistry, oily skin, perspiration or whatever you call it, rather than "this finish is always better than that one".

            • musicsingle Just Startin'
              musicsingle
              35 posts since
              Nov 27, 2006
              Currently Being Moderated
              Feb 28, 2012 7:53 AM (in response to variaxlover)
              Re: Satin finish on JTV 69 neck

              I agree I like glossy finish the best and I believe body chemistry has a lot in determining one's preference.  That said satin works for me also after rubbing the neck down with 000 steel wool and then polishing it to a gloss finish.

            • litesnsirens Iknowathingortwo
              litesnsirens
              649 posts since
              Mar 20, 2010
              Currently Being Moderated
              Feb 28, 2012 6:44 PM (in response to variaxlover)
              Re: Satin finish on JTV 69 neck

              Well, we'll have to agree to diagree and hopefully in a friendly way.  I have very dry hands too, which is a bonus for someone who likes to play unfinished necks because it's a lot easier to keep them clean.  I've been playing for close to 40 years and I've played with a lot of different guys.  I have one buddy whose hands are so oily and sweaty that he has to wipe his strings down after playing or they rust out in a week.  He finds unfinished necks faster to play and in fact sands his necks down like I do, he just has to work harder to keep them clean.  To me the biggest reason to finish a neck is to make it easier to clean. 

               

              I'm sorry but I can't think of any circumstance in which a finshed neck is going to feel as smooth as an unfinished.  I have yet to meet a player who has never played unfinished who after playing one of my guitars isn't blown away by the feel. 

               

              Of course all these examples are anecdotal and I don't profess that any of it would translate globally beyond my own experience.  I'm just saying I didn't make that statement in a vacuum.  Not everyone one that tries my guitar sells theirs and goes out and gets a guitar with an unfinished neck. There aren't that many models out there that come that way stock.  So you either commit and sand or live with the finish.  I would never recommend anyone to sand the neck down on an expensive guitar.

    • favance Just Startin'
      favance
      52 posts since
      Jan 26, 2007
      Currently Being Moderated
      Jan 15, 2011 6:47 AM (in response to RichRenken)
      Re: Satin finish on JTV 69 neck

      I love the existing satin finish...just as long as the neck is fast.

       

      I've said before.  I think line 6 is missing the boat by not offering neck options, especially on the JTV-69.  Would love to have ordered a thinner profile w/maple fretboard w/stainless thinner frets on my 69.  This would make the 69 absolutely perfect for me...  Could this be a market in between the Korean and U.S. version?   Is it possible that Warmoth or the Custom guys could offer an alternative neck (w/logo) that could be user installed (w/a local luthier)?  Thanks.

    • meistsf Just Startin'
      meistsf
      26 posts since
      Feb 6, 2007
      Currently Being Moderated
      Jan 15, 2011 9:04 AM (in response to RichRenken)
      Re: Satin finish on JTV 69 neck

      I think for me it is just what I am used to.  My old LPaul Custom had a shiny finish, So did my old Travis Bean (polished Aluminum neck).  So did all my others over the years.

       

      I bet it wouldn't take long to get used to and even prefer the stock neck, but it was so little effort to bring it to what I am more used to, it was faster to change the feel of the neck then to work to have the neck change what my fingers wanted to feel.

       

      PS, if you ever consider custom necks, PLEASE refrain from making Aluminum necks.  I learned a hard lesson in high coefficents of expansion going from a cold car to a warm stage every winter and having to constantly tune my guitar.  This was back in the 70's, so maybe everybody has learned their lesson.

       

      SFM

  • iron Just Startin'
    iron
    56 posts since
    Jan 28, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 16, 2011 8:24 AM (in response to meistsf)
    Re: Satin finish on JTV 69 neck

    Normally I use mineral oil to slick up the back of the neck before a rehearsal or show on my other guitars, but interesting enough I like the neck on this 69.

     

    Thanks for the tip.

  • jealousblues Just Startin'
    jealousblues
    84 posts since
    Feb 11, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 28, 2012 6:55 PM (in response to meistsf)
    Re: Satin finish on JTV 69 neck

    Ive played both kinds of necks.

     

    I always end up prefering a finished neck, but neither one is "bad"

     

    Ive had a satin neck on a Variax 500 as well as on a Musicman bass and never really hated either.

     

     

    Ive also had some overly gooey feeling necks as well however that werent that much fun, but 99% of the time it never bothered me

     

    I love the neck on my JTV59 and the one on my transplant (which is nitro and pretty much worn through in many places)

  • mrscaryz Just Startin'
    mrscaryz
    25 posts since
    Mar 25, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 19, 2012 11:43 PM (in response to meistsf)
    Re: Satin finish on JTV 69 neck

    haha I can kinda understand where you guys are coming from long ago I sanded the back of my 1981 Hamer to get rid of the paint gosh what 31 years ago.. Since that time I have gone through ohhh gosh buying selling for profit over 70+ guitars I have learned that

    with proper playing technique which few people even know...you have no reason to put mineral oil on your guitar and make some mess of some type I have seen guys before they play haha alot back in the 80's metal scence when we were touring etc.. just grab WD-40 and just hahah spray it all over their Kramers and Hamers etc hahaha but as time has passed I realize how foolish I was I have about 20 guitars now half custom built.. And for me it doesnt matter which one I pick up I jsut play I do understand Rich's comment about sticky some finishes do lend themselves to taht feel but that is easly fixed their are several polishes on the market now that make any neck as slick as a teflon pan if thats what you want.. to me it dont matter. I do quite a bit of session work and I many times will go through 7 -8 guitars in a a 4 hour period for different tracks.. So I think to be honest you just need to A. Get a better polish  B. go insane and indeed make a mess and put mineral oil all over it C. spray it down with WD-40. D. Learn the proper technique required so that you are not sliding your plam all over the neck to create any heat that would somehow make the finish sticky......

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