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1325 Views 29 Replies Latest reply: Jul 4, 2012 12:54 PM by jellevinck RSS
zystudios Just Startin' 22 posts since
Feb 19, 2008
Currently Being Moderated

Mar 23, 2012 9:11 PM

pod hd400 edit + hd400

Why does the Cab always change to default settings when I switch presets while using pod hd400 edit? This is probably the most annoying feature to this product. The second most annoying feature is not having different note lengths in the delay section. Rather than being able to tap along to the beat or set your bpm and forget them you have to tap out your delay exactly. Lame.

  • indigobjn Just Startin' 98 posts since
    Sep 19, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 23, 2012 11:23 PM (in response to zystudios)
    Re: pod hd400 edit + hd400

    Hi zystudios,

     

    Yes, I had the same problem with my HD400. In fact, not only the CAB model, the delay settings, chorus settings got altered when I switched presets using HD400. But after performing Factory Reset followed by Pedal Caliberation it's working properly now. Try it. Hope it works.

     

    Thank You,

    Bjn.

  • silverhead Expert Line 6 User 9,592 posts since
    Apr 1, 2009
    Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 24, 2012 6:12 PM (in response to zystudios)
    Re: pod hd400 edit + hd400

    zystudios wrote:

     

    Why does the Cab always change to default settings when I switch presets while using pod hd400 edit? ..

    When you change presets, the cab settings are reset to whatever value was stored in the preset that is being recalled when that preset was last saved. In other words, what you are describing should not be happening (and probably isn't).

     

    I think what you may mean is that the cab settings always change to the amp's default whgen you change an amp within a preset. It does that because that's the way the current firmware is implemented. There's no workaround for this until/unless this is changed in the firmware.

     

    .. Rather than being able to tap along to the beat or set your bpm and forget them...

    The HD400 has a fixed tap tempo interval of 1/4 note. If you want something else, like an 1/8 note, you have to calcultae and set the bpm manually. For instance, if you use the tap tempo switch and happen to tap it at an interval of 50 ms, that will set a 1/4 note interval of 50ms=one-half second. The matching 'song' tempo is thus set to 2 seconds = 120bpm.  Using similar reasoning, if you want to play along at a song temp of 120bpm but want eighth-note delay intervals you would manually set the tap tempo bpm=25 ms.

     

    You can make an officila feature request for both your suggestions here:

    http://line6.com/company/contact/productfeedback/

      • indigobjn Just Startin' 98 posts since
        Sep 19, 2011
        Currently Being Moderated
        Mar 24, 2012 10:07 PM (in response to zystudios)
        Re: pod hd400 edit + hd400

        Hi,

         

        Here's the link to similar problem I was facing.

         

        http://line6.com/support/message/357165#357165

         

        Yes, Asterick symbol appears to the right of preset name when I switch to different preset using HD400 Footswtiches itself or using HD400 Edit since many settings got altered like CAB model, Delay settings, chorus settings, etc. This problem with my HD400 hasn't been solved completely but it is less frequent now. It still happens with some of the presets. I got support ticket on this issue and they say it's because of underpowered USB. But you seem to have tried a number of USBs to connect your HD400 to your computer. This means there is something wrong with the HD400 Edit or some other problems. Hope someone's gonna consider this a serious problem cause this is annoying.

        l

        Thank You,

        Bijen.

      • silverhead Expert Line 6 User 9,592 posts since
        Apr 1, 2009
        Currently Being Moderated
        Mar 25, 2012 7:35 AM (in response to zystudios)
        Re: pod hd400 edit + hd400

        Thanks for clarifying.

         

        Does this happen when you are not using HD400 Edit? If this is happening using only the HD400 device itself then we can pursue further.

         

        If it only happens when you are using HD400 Edit then it is likely just another symptom of the fact that the the two memory spaces invloved (the HD400 device memory buffer and the HD400 RAM memory space on your computer) get confused. These two memory spaces are known to get out of sync sometimes when you use them both to make changes, including patch changes. This loss of synchronization leads to unpredictable results such as you describe. This is known behaviour. If you feel that this is a bug that should be fixed please make an official feature request here:

        http://line6.com/company/contact/productfeedback/

         

        Meantime, the only real workaround is to make ALL changes using the editor when it is running. In other words, when HD400 Edit is running do not touch the HD400 device.

         

        If you can reproduce this symptom using ONLY the HD400, or ONLY HD400 Edit, please provide a specific recipe like the one you provided above. That should be investigated further; it may be the same problem that the previous poster described. If it is only reproducible using both the device itself and the Editor then the symptom is already known to Line 6, but it is still useful to provide your product feddback using the link I provided.

        • indigobjn Just Startin' 98 posts since
          Sep 19, 2011
          Currently Being Moderated
          Mar 25, 2012 8:40 PM (in response to silverhead)
          Re: pod hd400 edit + hd400

          Hi silverhead,

           

          This happens only when I'm using HD400 Edit. Whether we change presets using HD400 unit itself or HD400 Edit when Edit is running, the problem occurs.

           

          Bijen.

          • silverhead Expert Line 6 User 9,592 posts since
            Apr 1, 2009
            Currently Being Moderated
            Mar 26, 2012 7:04 AM (in response to indigobjn)
            Re: pod hd400 edit + hd400

            Yes - I know that's your situation, and you've been following up direclty with Line 6 on this.

             

            But I'm wondering about zystudios' situation. Maybe he will answer and we'll figure out whether his issue is identical to yours or perhaps something else.

              • silverhead Expert Line 6 User 9,592 posts since
                Apr 1, 2009
                Currently Being Moderated
                Mar 26, 2012 5:15 PM (in response to zystudios)
                Re: pod hd400 edit + hd400

                Just one clarification - sorry, but it is important. Did you make sure that HD400 Edit was NOT running when you tested the footswitches on the HD400 device? Your answer does not specify that.

                  • silverhead Expert Line 6 User 9,592 posts since
                    Apr 1, 2009
                    Currently Being Moderated
                    Mar 27, 2012 7:21 AM (in response to zystudios)
                    Re: pod hd400 edit + hd400

                    OK - so as I understand it for both of you, zystudios and indigobjn, this problem occurs only when HD400 Edit is running. When using the HD400 device itself the problem does not occur. Correct?

                     

                    I conclude, then, that this a symptom of the known problem I described in my post#7 earlier in this thread. Using both the HD400 device and HD400 Edit to make changes can cause the two memory spaces (HD400 and computer) to get out of sync. Line 6 is aware of this, and may or may not decide to try to fix it. There is a workaround: do not touch the HD400 device while HD400 Edit is running; use the Editor to make ALL your changes.

                     

                    Hope this helps.

                    • indigobjn Just Startin' 98 posts since
                      Sep 19, 2011
                      Currently Being Moderated
                      Mar 27, 2012 8:21 PM (in response to silverhead)
                      Re: pod hd400 edit + hd400

                      Ok. The settings for the presets changes and shown unsaved (* appears with preset name) even if we use HD400 edit itself to change presets not HD400 unit's Footswitches.

                      • silverhead Expert Line 6 User 9,592 posts since
                        Apr 1, 2009
                        Currently Being Moderated
                        Mar 28, 2012 7:37 AM (in response to indigobjn)
                        Re: pod hd400 edit + hd400

                        I am going to try to reproduce this behaviour on my HD400 and HD400 Edit. I'll report back here - however, I probably won't be able to do this for  a day or two. If I haven't posted here again by the weekend pleased send me a Private Message to remind me.

                        • indigobjn Just Startin' 98 posts since
                          Sep 19, 2011
                          Currently Being Moderated
                          Mar 28, 2012 6:43 PM (in response to silverhead)
                          Re: pod hd400 edit + hd400

                          ok. Thanks silverhead.

                        • silverhead Expert Line 6 User 9,592 posts since
                          Apr 1, 2009
                          Currently Being Moderated
                          Mar 31, 2012 9:49 AM (in response to silverhead)
                          Re: pod hd400 edit + hd400

                          OK - here are the results of my testing:

                           

                          HD400 Device (HD400 Edit not running)

                          I found no problems with the Cab selection behaviour here. Every time I switch patches the cab selection comes up with the cab that was selected when the patch was last saved. This may or may not be the default cab for the given amp. If I edit the patch and change the cab selection, that change will either be saved or not depending on whether or not I use the SAVE function.When I return to this patch after switching to another patch, the last-saved cab selection will be recalled.

                           

                          All of this is normal and expected behaviour.

                           

                          HD400 Edit running

                          For this test I used ONLY HD400 Edit to make changes - I did not touch the HD400 device at any time.

                          After launching HD400 Edit and after all presets had been loaded from the HD400:

                          1) I selected patch 1A (doesn't matter what it is or what its settings are)

                          2) I changed the amp to force the cab model to go to the default for the amp (again, doesn't matter what amp it is - just that the default cab for that amp is selected). As expected, an asterisk now appears beside the preset name indicating that the preset has been changed

                          3) I changed the cab model to something other than the default

                          4) I also moved the CH VOL to zero (for illustrative purposes explained later)

                          5) Using HD400 Edit I selected patch 1B (Note: I did not SEND the changes to 1A to the HD400 device before selecting 1B)

                          6) I immediately used HD400 Edit to re-select patch 1A

                           

                          Observations:

                          Patch 1A now shows the default cab selection for the amp I selected in step 2 above, demonstrating your issue - the cab model change made in step 3 was discarded. However, the change in the CH VOL made in step 4 was properly retained - it still shows zero.

                           

                          Expected behaviour: The cab model change made in step 3 should have been retained in the HD400 Edit program memory, as was the CH VOL change, and properly recalled when the patch was reselected in step 6.

                           

                          Conclusion: This behaviour is a bug that should be reported to Line 6.

                           

                          I have reported the bug by providing the above recipe and problem description to Line 6 here:

                          http://line6.com/company/contact/productfeedback/

                           

                          Please feel free to also report this bug yourselves by making a similar problem report at that link. Please include the HD400 firmware version you are using, as well as the HD400 Edit version number.

                           

                          Hope this helps at least our understanding of the issue. The actual fix will need to be provided by Line 6 in a future HD400 Edit update, if they choose to do so.

                          • rafaufaufau Just Startin' 5 posts since
                            Dec 9, 2011
                            Currently Being Moderated
                            Mar 31, 2012 2:06 PM (in response to silverhead)
                            Re: pod hd400 edit + hd400

                            Great thanks for testing. I'm gonna also report this bug and include my firmware ver. I tried to update my soft and reinstall hd edit but bug still exist after that. BTW i am using pod hd300 and got same problem with cab. All other settings are succesfully retained.

                          • indigobjn Just Startin' 98 posts since
                            Sep 19, 2011
                            Currently Being Moderated
                            Mar 31, 2012 6:16 PM (in response to silverhead)
                            Re: pod hd400 edit + hd400

                            Hi Silverhead,

                             

                            Thanks for your response.

                             

                            Yes, any changes made and retained without Edit running is normal with my HD400 also.

                             

                            But I want you to send the changes made to HD400 unit (1A) and only then after go to 1B using the HD Edit. And go to 1A again. Sometimes, The changes aren't retained even after saving it. Please check this with your HD400 and reply.

                             

                            And I want you to try one more thing with your HD400 along with a Cab model other than Default. Add a digital delay on that preset on 1A and note down the delay parameters such as: Delay time, Mix amount, Feedback, Treble, Bass and then go to 1B after sending (also without sending) it to HD400 unit via HD400 edit and return to 1A using edit. Does the Delay parameters go all over the place along with the Cac model getting changed and preset shown unsaved?

                             

                            Please try this and reply.

                             

                            indigobjn

                            • silverhead Expert Line 6 User 9,592 posts since
                              Apr 1, 2009
                              Currently Being Moderated
                              Apr 1, 2012 8:09 AM (in response to indigobjn)
                              Re: pod hd400 edit + hd400

                              indigobjn wrote:

                               

                              ...

                              But I want you to send the changes made to HD400 unit (1A) and only then after go to 1B using the HD Edit. And go to 1A again. Sometimes, The changes aren't retained even after saving it. Please check this with your HD400 and reply....

                              OK - so I followed the same recipe as in my previous post, but this time I added a step:

                              4a) SEND SELECTED patch 1A to the HD400 device.

                              Then I proceeded with steps 5 and 6.

                               

                              Observations: the default cab selection appears again in the HD Edit workspace for preset 1A. This reflects the bug that we now know exists. However: if you proceed:

                              7) RECEIVE SELECTED patch 1A.

                              you will observe that the change that was saved to the HD device in step 4a was correctly stored in the HD400, and is correctly recalled by the RECEIVE command. So there is nothing more going wrong here other than the already acknowledged bug. It is only the HD400 Edit workspace that is incorrect - theHD400 device did retain the saved changes.

                               

                              indigobjn wrote:

                              ...

                              And I want you to try one more thing with your HD400 along with a Cab model other than Default. Add a digital delay on that preset on 1A and note down the delay parameters such as: Delay time, Mix amount, Feedback, Treble, Bass and then go to 1B after sending (also without sending) it to HD400 unit via HD400 edit and return to 1A using edit. Does the Delay parameters go all over the place along with the Cac model getting changed and preset shown unsaved?

                              ...

                              I tested this in two ways as you asked:

                               

                              Without SENDing the change to the HD400 device before switching to 1B:

                              After switching back again to 1A the cab default bug shows itself again. However, the changes made to the Digital Delay FX were retained in the HD400 Edit workspace. I saw nothing unexpected.

                               

                              After SENDing the change to the HD400 device  before switching to 1B:

                              Same result as above. The known bug is evident; the Digital Delay changes work as expected.

                               

                              Note that your observed behaviour here could depend on your HD400 SETUP with respect to the AutoFX system setting. If you're not sure what that does please check it out in the manual.

                               

                               

                              Note also that I was ONLY using HD400 Edit to make these changes. The observed behaviour could be different if you use the HD400 footswitch to change presets. You can demonstrate this in the first example immediately above - the one where you change the Digital Delay parameters in HD400 Edit, but do NOT SEND the changes to the HD400 device.  After changing the Digital Delay parameters, use the HD400 footswitches to select preset 1B and then back to 1A. When I do that, the Digital Delay settings do jump around in a very confusing manner. That is normal behaviour. WHY? Because when you use the device footswitch to change to preset 1A it loads the preset data from the original unchanged preset location in the HD400 device - it does not load the preset data from the HD400 Edit workspace. Since you did not SEND the HD400 Edit changes, these two sets of preset data are different. For reasons known only to the Line 6 product developers, it appears that some of this different data is transmitted to the HD400 Edit program when the HD400 footswitch is used, and some isn't - resulting in unpredictable behaviour and data displays. This is the root cause/explanation of the loss of synchronization that I was talking about earlier in this thread.

                               

                              SO - my conclusion after all of this is:

                              - yes, there is a bug in HD400 Edit re: the default cab selection behaviour. We have reported that bug.

                              - all other anomalies in expected behaviour that I observed were due to the loss of synchronization between the HD400 device and the HD400 Edit workspace. All of these anomalies can be avoided by NOT using the HD400 device to make any changes while HD400 Edit is running.

                              • rafaufaufau Just Startin' 5 posts since
                                Dec 9, 2011
                                Currently Being Moderated
                                Apr 1, 2012 2:09 PM (in response to silverhead)
                                Re: pod hd400 edit + hd400

                                It's sad because i've reseted device to factory defaults, reupdated firmware and usb, installed drivers on another CPU and this bug still exist. After that things i've never used device footswitches with HD EDIT online. If there will be no solution i'm gonna dump hd300 from my rig.

                                • silverhead Expert Line 6 User 9,592 posts since
                                  Apr 1, 2009
                                  Currently Being Moderated
                                  Apr 1, 2012 3:31 PM (in response to rafaufaufau)
                                  Re: pod hd400 edit + hd400

                                  rafaufaufau wrote:

                                   

                                  ... and this bug still exist. ...

                                  That's why it's called a bug. 

                                   

                                  It has been reported (that's all we can do) and it's in Line 6 hands. It may be fixed in a future update.... and it may not.....

                                   

                                  Please describe why this is such a big deal for you. As I see it, it's a bug that only exists in HD Edit (not on the device itself) and only manifests itself when ALL of the following happens in sequence: you use Edit to change a cab model to something other than the default value; you choose NOT to SEND the changes to the HD device; you switch to another preset; and finally you switch back to the original preset. How often do you do that? Maybe you could just SEND the change before switching presets?

                                  • rafaufaufau Just Startin' 5 posts since
                                    Dec 9, 2011
                                    Currently Being Moderated
                                    Apr 2, 2012 1:27 AM (in response to silverhead)
                                    Re: pod hd400 edit + hd400

                                    silverhead wrote:

                                     

                                    you use Edit to change a cab model to something other than the default value; you choose NOT to SEND the changes to the HD device; you switch to another preset; and finally you switch back to the original preset. How often do you do that? Maybe you could just SEND the change before switching presets?

                                    Even if i send preset to the device, then i change preset and return to it cab is returning to default. Even after saving it...

                                    I reported to the Line6 support because for me it's a big deal.

                                    • silverhead Expert Line 6 User 9,592 posts since
                                      Apr 1, 2009
                                      Currently Being Moderated
                                      Apr 2, 2012 5:30 AM (in response to rafaufaufau)
                                      Re: pod hd400 edit + hd400

                                      rafaufaufau wrote:

                                      ...

                                      Even if i send preset to the device, then i change preset and return to it cab is returning to default. Even after saving it...

                                      ....

                                      In HD Edit, yes. But if you RECEIVE SELECTED you will find the preset recalled from the HD device, where it was properly saved, with the non-default cab.

                              • indigobjn Just Startin' 98 posts since
                                Sep 19, 2011
                                Currently Being Moderated
                                Apr 1, 2012 7:12 PM (in response to silverhead)
                                Re: pod hd400 edit + hd400

                                Ok. Thanks again Silverhead. So we now that the bug exist in HD400 Edit and we've reported this bug, we now can only hope that i gets sorted out in the next update.

                                 

                                Thank you

  • joemazur1964 Just Startin' 5 posts since
    May 12, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated
    May 6, 2012 8:04 AM (in response to zystudios)
    Re: pod hd400 edit + hd400

    I had a similar issue when using HD 400 Edit but I eventually figured out not to touch anything on the box while using it. However, I am still having an issue with patches changing parameters on the fly while I am playing live and not attached to a PC / Edit whatsoever. I also had an issue where my Mode button suddenly stopped working. I reset the box to factory defaults and reloaded all my patches and the Mode button then worked. However, I am still having occasional issues with patches changing parameters on the fly - the display will change to the edit mode for a given parameter (amp modeling, etc) and then stay there even if I change patches. Eventually this goes away but I would definitely like to see this fixed.

  • blainebarnett62 Just Startin' 2 posts since
    Jan 27, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 12, 2012 8:58 AM (in response to zystudios)
    Re: pod hd400 edit + hd400

    I too am having a frustrating time with these issues. Random cabinet changes to presets no matter if I save the patches using only the HD400 edit or the HD400 itself. This is a drag a on many levels causing volume level changes at gigs, losing the tone I spent time dialing in. In a nut shell just not being confident that my guitar is going to sound the way I expect.

     

    I also don't understand why the HD400 edit doesn't have a cabinet off option for use with amps like the DT25. When I plug straight in the front of the DT25 the amp sound great but when using it with the HD400 and trying to match the pre amp models to the DT25 it seems that the cabinet sims are keeping me from the cleanest path from the HD400 and the DT25. Come to think about it.. if there was a cab off option I would not be having the first issue.

     

    I also agree with a previous post that the small dots icon next to the volume and tone controls that were on the XTlive display showing the stored levels are a must for anyone trying to make small changes on the fly without distroying the original preset.

     

    Please...

    #1-fix the bug with the cabinet changes

    #2-give us HD400 edit users a cab off option

    #3-give us HD400 users the dot reference to the current volume and tone levels

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