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467 Views 12 Replies Latest reply: Nov 13, 2012 6:20 PM by CairnsFella RSS
michaedr Just Startin' 48 posts since
Apr 13, 2007
Currently Being Moderated

Oct 25, 2012 5:40 AM

Modulation Effects

I bought the HD500 about 2 months ago, but unfortunately I haven't had a lot of time to play with it.  When I did I mostly played around with the amp settings and tweaking those.  Now that my little guy is several months old he is continuously sleeping through the night, and I have time in the evenings to play with the thing.

 

Anyways, the past several nights I've been trying to make some different patches for some of the songs my band does.  I was going in trying to set up a flange patch, chorus patch, and a patch that uses tremolo,  While there are multiple effects to chose from for each one of these, they were all kinda specific, off the norm sounding effects.  That probably isn't the clear of statements, but I'm having a difficult time trying to dial this in with any desirable results.  I mean I would like a patch with a nice sweeping flange sound.  Just a basic flange type sound and it seems unachievable.  My last amp was a Flextone III XL...RIP.  So I am use to having to tweak things the sound to get them right and I could very easily on the Flextone, but with the HD500 is seems like the basic foundation of the effect isn't there.  Same with the chorus effects...and there are only 2 of these?  Trem didn't sound all that great either, but I didn't spend a lot of time with that.  The phaser did sound pretty good.

 

I'm not a hater or anything.  I've been using L6 products for a while.  I also have a DT50 and plan on getting a JTV  soon.  Have I just not spent enough time to learn the in's and out's of these effects on this unit or am I not crazy these effects are simply lacking.  It's seems like they working very hard on the amp modeling which I thing sounds great with some tweaking, but the effects are a little lackluster.  I recall them changing amp models on a Flextone update, and I just did the new HD update and the new amps sounds great.  Do they ever update their effects?  Or add new ones?  I mean this is an effects pedel right?

  • malnack Just Startin' 40 posts since
    Feb 5, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 25, 2012 8:09 AM (in response to michaedr)
    Re: Modulation Effects

    I've had my HD500 for a little over a year now and I've had really good success with both the chorus and flanger. I'm sure some of the power tweakers can provide some good info for you but I thought that I'd mention that where you place the effect in the chain has a pretty big impact on how it sounds. If you take a chorus setting and move it before compression or distortion it will have a very different sound than if you place it at the end of the chain. Using the Blackface as a clean preamp (also have a DT25), I'm able to get a very glossy chorus (adding a delay helps as well).

    • Triryche Expert Line 6 User 3,698 posts since
      Feb 20, 2007
      Currently Being Moderated
      Oct 25, 2012 8:16 AM (in response to malnack)
      Re: Modulation Effects

      +1 to malnack regard position of the Mods.

      Have you tried placing them after the mixer block?

       

      As for chorus, my favorite is the Dimension, a model of the Roland Dimension D/Boss Dimension C.

      • mazuwa Iknowathingortwo 371 posts since
        Jul 7, 2006
        Currently Being Moderated
        Oct 25, 2012 8:25 AM (in response to Triryche)
        Re: Modulation Effects

        Let me add: A chorus here is a stereo effect. To keep it stereo, there mustn't be a mono fx placed behind it.

        A mono fx is e.g. a compressor, but also an amp.

        • CairnsFella Just Startin' 205 posts since
          Sep 16, 2012
          Currently Being Moderated
          Oct 26, 2012 8:31 PM (in response to mazuwa)
          Re: Modulation Effects

          mazuwa wrote:

           

          Let me add: A chorus here is a stereo effect. To keep it stereo, there mustn't be a mono fx placed behind it.

          A mono fx is e.g. a compressor, but also an amp.

           

          OK. I must confess that I had started to write that I didnt believe this to be the case (re: the amp) but given my relative newness to the device I thought I had best reconfirm my suspicions.

           

          Wha'dya know, Im completely right... oh hang on.. Sorry. I of course meant wrong . In truth I am a bit bummed over this discovery. I guess, being a bit of a purist, I have to accept this to be the case as obviously passing a real stereo effect through a real amp would have the same effect. Also, thinking about it a little more, to retain the stereo signal the processing would be the same as setting up dual amps, and all the extra DSP that requires. However, if that latter assumption were not true, it would be a shame to lose the stereo effect for want of an option or switch to maintain the stereo processing in addition to the more 'traditional' summing of the default set up.

          • Triryche Expert Line 6 User 3,698 posts since
            Feb 20, 2007
            Currently Being Moderated
            Oct 29, 2012 7:13 AM (in response to CairnsFella)
            Re: Modulation Effects

            CairnsFella wrote:

             

            ....it would be a shame to lose the stereo effect for want of an option or switch to maintain the stereo processing in addition to the more 'traditional' summing of the default set up.

            ....but if you put a stereo effect after an amp block, it will be stereo, as (assuming no other mono blocks after further down the chain)

            • CairnsFella Just Startin' 205 posts since
              Sep 16, 2012
              Currently Being Moderated
              Nov 13, 2012 6:20 PM (in response to Triryche)
              Re: Modulation Effects

              Triryche wrote:

               

              ....but if you put a stereo effect after an amp block, it will be stereo, as (assuming no other mono blocks after further down the chain)

               

              Triryche,

               

              god, I am getting senile. For some reason this didnt appear obvious to me so have been using dual amps since discovering the summing effect of a single amp. D'oh! Anyway, appreciate the DSP freeing suggestion (even though I am rather annoyed with myself for not realising already).

               

              PS. Apologies for late response... not had time to check up here for a while.

  • meambobbo Iknowathingortwo 1,702 posts since
    Dec 13, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 25, 2012 1:40 PM (in response to michaedr)
    Re: Modulation Effects

    let me chime in on the flangers:

     

    most are probably not going to give you the sound you want.  The 80A and AC Flanger I found sound most like a traditional flanger, but neither have a mix parameter.  The mix in HD Edit on the AC flanger does nothing.  To get around that, you can put it in Channel A only, then use the mixer levels to set your mix.  You can pan hard left/right so that the flange is only in the left/right, or pan both to center so that left and right are affected.

     

    As for settings, it's ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL to understand how the effect works and what you are controlling, particular the manual parameter.

     

    A flanger works by splitting a signal in half, and introducing a delay to one of them, then mixing them back together.  This creates a comb filter, where the phase coherency becomes out-of-phase to differing degrees for different frequencies.  The delay time is varied using an LFO, almost always with adjustable time and range/width.

     

    Manual is deceptive.  It gives you manual control of the sweep, so you could set width/range to 0%, then assign manual to the expression pedal to manually create the sweep sound.  But it additionally has an effect on tone when using non-0% width/range settings.  Think of it as the baseline delay.  So if your range is -/+ 100ms, you need to set manual to be at least 100ms, or as the delay reaches its lowest delay setting, it will actually bypass the original signal.  Obviously this is impossible on a real analog flanger.  But somehow it DOES happen on the Pod's flangers.  The result is at the end of the swoosh tone, you hear like a wobble, or doubled swoosh.  It is very unappealing, IMO.  I try to keep my Manual control around 50%, but if you use higher Width/Range settings, you may want to go even higher.  Setting too high; however, will change the flange tone, as you are changing which frequencies the comb filter will effect.  Higher settings will likely result in greater interference and a more aggressive effect, although possibly less-defined.

     

    There's also usually a feedback/regen parameter.  This feeds the delayed signal back into split signal before it is delayed.  It's kind of like putting a reverb on it.  The effect is to strengthen the flanger effect and make it sound more processed, spreading it across more of the frequency spectrum.  I find you need to have this at least around 30% to get a typical flanger tone.  You can set it quite high if you want, but you will get a more and more "processed" sound.  I don't like to set it too high.

     

    Finally, I prefer the AC Flanger.  It seems the most like a traditional flanger.  The 80A is also nice, but it can sound a bit artificial.  Both of these have an effect on the freuquency response of the signal.  So I often EQ my signal after the flanger to make it more transparent.  I find they tend to add a boost in the punch range around 250 HZ.  So I use a parametric EQ to dial that back.

  • Octo777 Iknowathingortwo 851 posts since
    Feb 23, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 26, 2012 1:01 AM (in response to michaedr)
    Re: Modulation Effects

    Cant say I've had any major issues dialling in chorus or flanger FX.

     

    My personal preference is the Analog version of both.

     

    For Analog Flanger my parameters are as follows:

    Speed: 0.10 HZ

    Depth: 100

    Feedback: 100

    Manual 70

    Mix: 100

     

    This is positioned after an F-Ball on a pretty high gain setting. Think the Outro to Chimaira's "Pure Hatred" and thats the effect I'm going for on that one.

     

    With a clean sound the same effect with the same settings is far less noticable.

     

    In fact Flangers in general never really sound that great on clean sounds, they seem to need a grittier tone to drive them properly. Might just be my personal opinion, but for clean tones with a similar effect I opt for Phasers instead.

     

    Hope this might help in some way in addition to the great info from the dudes above.

    • hollis1003 Iknowathingortwo 342 posts since
      Feb 6, 2007
      Currently Being Moderated
      Oct 26, 2012 8:24 AM (in response to michaedr)
      Re: Modulation Effects

      What songs or bands are you trying to emulate?  That would give us the best basis to help you.

        • meambobbo Iknowathingortwo 1,702 posts since
          Dec 13, 2007
          Currently Being Moderated
          Oct 30, 2012 12:48 PM (in response to michaedr)
          Re: Modulation Effects

          for the kravitz tone, you definitely need to use it post-amp/distortion.  I believe it was a flanger, so i'd try that first using the advice given above.  I'd try high range/width and regen/feedback values.

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