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571 Views 26 Replies Latest reply: Dec 28, 2012 10:12 AM by TheRealZap RSS
Kanjiroo Just Startin'
Kanjiroo
15 posts since
Nov 7, 2010
Currently Being Moderated

Dec 10, 2012 6:38 PM

Please, fix the "overtone/ghost/dual" altered tuning tones!

I just received a JTV-59 and updated to 1.9 software.  I love the construction and tone of the Mag pickups.....I love my HD500 and JTV-59 combined.....but the overtones are killing me. ANY string that has an altered tuning creates giant dual tones (HD500-Straight to amp-HEadphones-Recording gear).......as I play this professionally...this is unacceptable. I purchased the guitar to replace 3 d-28's with different tunings and a banjo....the dual tones make this unuasable.  I love the guitar, is there any fix? I hate to send it back....I really do.....please tell me there is a fix......

 

Jason

  • TheRealZap Expert Line 6 User
    TheRealZap
    11,829 posts since
    Dec 22, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 10, 2012 7:30 PM (in response to Kanjiroo)
    Re: Please, fix the "overtone/ghost/dual" altered tuning tones!

    you should try reflashing to the latest... or perhaps an earlier version than back to the latest...

    sometimes the update is imperfect... it won't do that once you get the update right.

    • adessmith Just Startin'
      adessmith
      119 posts since
      Jan 6, 2009
      Currently Being Moderated
      Dec 11, 2012 6:38 AM (in response to TheRealZap)
      Re: Please, fix the "overtone/ghost/dual" altered tuning tones!

      Seems odd that a botched update would still work, but alter the tone of the instrument....
      I keep seeing people recomend that, for any problem, you should re-apply the latest update, as if this sometimes works for tone related issues.

      I wonder if anyone could report that they had a tone related problem which has been solved by re-installing the same version of the firmware currently on the guitar.

      (aside from the somewhat common issue where the models are lost and you get the really thin sounding piezo sounds with no modeling)

       

       

       

      If this is really the case, it sounds like Line 6 is actually tweaking the firmware "behind peoples back", and not updating the revision number.
      I'm not saying TheRealZap is wrong... I mean... I'm not an expert by any means. There is obviously some merrit behind this statement, because you see it OVER AND OVER.

      Its just that, understanding a little about firmware updates and digital data, it seems unlikely that a few random bits could get corrupted and cause something like this, but everything else work just fine.

      Its like saying you emailed a picture to you mom which somehow didnt send right and now it shows you wearing blue jeans instead of shorts... Sounds a bit like the big bang theory to me...

       

      If this is the case, Line 6 should really integrate some sort of checksum method in the firmware updates so that a corrupted firmware update could be identified prior to installing.

      • TheRealZap Expert Line 6 User
        TheRealZap
        11,829 posts since
        Dec 22, 2006
        Currently Being Moderated
        Dec 11, 2012 7:08 AM (in response to adessmith)
        Re: Please, fix the "overtone/ghost/dual" altered tuning tones!

        I've had these kinds of issues personally and have fixed them by reflashing...

        in one instance I even had to flash down to 1.7 then back up in order to clear an issue.

        I'm positive that the update is not changed after released, unless a new release is issued.

         

        I don't know the technical details of why it happens, or why this fixes it...

      • YirWaffy Just Startin'
        YirWaffy
        42 posts since
        Sep 28, 2012
        Currently Being Moderated
        Dec 11, 2012 7:09 AM (in response to adessmith)
        Re: Please, fix the "overtone/ghost/dual" altered tuning tones!

        I was going to post something similar. I've only been on the forums a few months but I haven't seen this "repatch" suggestion work for anyone in that time (unless I missed something). And I agree on the checksum. That shouldn't be too hard to implement unless there's no way to read the firmware data from the guitar which would have been a design mistake.

         

        Has Line 6 given you any hope of resolving your issue, Ade?

        • silverhead Expert Line 6 User
          silverhead
          9,592 posts since
          Apr 1, 2009
          Currently Being Moderated
          Dec 11, 2012 7:25 AM (in response to YirWaffy)
          Re: Please, fix the "overtone/ghost/dual" altered tuning tones!

          I don't think we should sidetrack this thread - the original poster has an issue, and it has been suggested that a reflash may resolve it. I think that is a good suggestion and is a quick potential fix. Jason (original poster) - please try it. It can't do any harm, and may fix things. Let us know how it goes.

           

          As for the subsequent discussion (not involving Jason) about whether and why a reflash sometimes helps, all I can say is that it certainly does. It's worked for me in the past, I have recommended it to many others and it has sometimnes (not always) worked for them. I can't explain it any more than I can explain why I sometimes need to reinstall a driver on my PC to get a device working properly again. It's a mystery to me, but it works - so I don't worry about it. I think if we want to pursue that discussion we should start a new (non-question) thread and leave this one for Jason's specific issue.

  • silverhead Expert Line 6 User
    silverhead
    9,592 posts since
    Apr 1, 2009
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 11, 2012 7:36 AM (in response to Kanjiroo)
    Re: Please, fix the "overtone/ghost/dual" altered tuning tones!

    Jason, please confirm that you hear the dual/ghost tones in a recording. This will eliminate the possibility that what you are hearing is actually just the natural acoustic resonance of the physical string in its original tuning. Of course, it's impossible to repress this - the string is physically vibrating - and the processed sound from the amp needs to be quite loud to fully overpower the acoustic sound. However, this natural resonance will not be recorded.

    • Kanjiroo Just Startin'
      Kanjiroo
      15 posts since
      Nov 7, 2010
      Currently Being Moderated
      Dec 11, 2012 8:51 AM (in response to silverhead)
      Re: Please, fix the "overtone/ghost/dual" altered tuning tones!

      I'll try the reflash tonight....I apreciate the suggestions.  I mihgt also try running on an older release.

      Thanks Silverhead and yes, I can 100% confirm that its dual tones from the amp. It only occurs on strings that are electronically detuned and its very load...almost the same volume as the correct tone.

       

      Try this if you guys get a chance....Play through a clean amp -- (I did on both my HD500 and straight to a JC-120)....no effects.....pick any guitar...then select any altered tuning......the altered string carries two tones....one of them not a very nice tone.

       

      Anyway...I shall thry the update again...I'll flash back to 1.7 then up to 1.9 and try it at each update to see what happens and let you all know. 

       

      Again, thank you!!!!

       

      Jason

  • Kanjiroo Just Startin'
    Kanjiroo
    15 posts since
    Nov 7, 2010
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 11, 2012 4:33 PM (in response to Kanjiroo)
    Re: Please, fix the "overtone/ghost/dual" altered tuning tones!

    ok, don;t ask me why, but the re-flash worked. So, to everyone who helped solve this probelm, you have my warmest "Thank you!" Overtones are gone with all altered tunings.

     

    I'm very happy cause I really like this guitar.

     

    Thanks again everyone!

     

    Jason

    • TheRealZap Expert Line 6 User
      TheRealZap
      11,829 posts since
      Dec 22, 2006
      Currently Being Moderated
      Dec 11, 2012 4:46 PM (in response to Kanjiroo)
      Re: Please, fix the "overtone/ghost/dual" altered tuning tones!

      awesome!

      • adessmith Just Startin'
        adessmith
        119 posts since
        Jan 6, 2009
        Currently Being Moderated
        Dec 11, 2012 5:01 PM (in response to TheRealZap)
        Re: Please, fix the "overtone/ghost/dual" altered tuning tones!

        That IS awesome.

        Its funny how there are some things that just defy logic.
        It's the techy side of me that wants to analyze everything and have an explanation of WHY... sometimes you just have to LISTEN, and sometimes I am stubborn and if  "I" cant explain it, it cant possibly be correct.
        LOL

         

        I still want to try to explain this and say that some sort of checksum function could keep this from happening....

         

        and for what it is worth, I have a somewhat similar issue (but not the same).
        Line 6 has not yet recomended that I try to re-flash, but I think I will do that after dinner tonight just to rule it out.
        I have sent them sample recordings and my tone files from my X3L, they are supposed to be checking things out to decide if I need to send my 59 in.

        I hope the black magic works for me as well... I would love to fix my issue without sending the guitar off!

        • adessmith Just Startin'
          adessmith
          119 posts since
          Jan 6, 2009
          Currently Being Moderated
          Dec 11, 2012 7:53 PM (in response to adessmith)
          Re: Please, fix the "overtone/ghost/dual" altered tuning tones!

          for what its worth, I reflashed to 1.9 tonight with no improvement.

          I just rolled back to 1.71, and I still have the issue.

          I am now re-installing 1.9

           

          Of course, I couldnt be as lucky as Kanjiroo

          • TheRealZap Expert Line 6 User
            TheRealZap
            11,829 posts since
            Dec 22, 2006
            Currently Being Moderated
            Dec 11, 2012 8:23 PM (in response to adessmith)
            Re: Please, fix the "overtone/ghost/dual" altered tuning tones!

            yeah, it's not a be all solve all... just a good thing to try when troubleshooting...

            when i first got mine, it had 1.7 on it... worked fine... flashed to 1.71

            and it turned to crap..

            after re-flashing several times and still being crap...

            flashed back down to 1.7, then back to 1.71 and it worked great...

             

            just saying... sometimes it pays off.

          • Kanjiroo Just Startin'
            Kanjiroo
            15 posts since
            Nov 7, 2010
            Currently Being Moderated
            Dec 12, 2012 7:38 AM (in response to adessmith)
            Re: Please, fix the "overtone/ghost/dual" altered tuning tones!

            I don;t know if this helps....but when I received the guitar a week ago I had to flaash it several times to get 1.9 to work.  I went from 1.71 to 1.9, fail - then 1.71, 1.8 , 1.9 - fail, then 1.8 to 1.9 - worked.

             

            Last night I went from 1.71 to 1.9 directly....there where no changes in tone of the models, in fact everything was exactly the saem as when I started - then I tried the altererd tunings and the overtones where gone.

             

            If that had not worked, I was going to master reset the guitar and try again....

             

            So, it took several attempts to get this update on the guitar.....I guess I st got lucky last night.

             

            It would be nice if the updating process was not as painful......but I don't want to curse the Gods.

             

            Jason

          • YirWaffy Just Startin'
            YirWaffy
            42 posts since
            Sep 28, 2012
            Currently Being Moderated
            Dec 12, 2012 7:49 AM (in response to adessmith)
            Re: Please, fix the "overtone/ghost/dual" altered tuning tones!

            I'm glad to hear re-patching worked for Jason. My apologies for questioning Zap's suggestion.

             

            Sorry that it didn't fix your issue though, Ade. One thing you might want to do before sending yours in is raise the bridge height to eliminate any possibility of the faintest fret buzz. It appears the piezos are very sensitive to it.

             

            I'm going to start a new thread for the checksum feature request. Seems like it would help Line 6 diagnose patching issues.

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