Currently Being ModeratedDec 31, 2012 4:59 PM (in response to Reason413)Re: XDV-30 & XDV35 differences
Ok , so I did a little more investigating.... I did a capsule swap and the difference seems to be in the capsule... the XDV35 capsule seems to be way hotter than the XDV30 capsule... they are the same exact thing... but there is a noticable difference... I would say the capsule that came with the XDV30 is more accurate to the overal sensitivity of the SM58 capsule I have laying around.... perhaps the capsules on the newer models are more sensitive than the older XDV30s ?
Thankfully the handling noise I get with the capsule that came with the XDV35 isnt that horrible but as I said in the main post, it is noticably more apparent.. as opposed to the slight handling noise I get with the XDV30 capsule... I am the lead singer so I tend to move around more so handling noise is important... my backup singer will be using the other and she often will just be holding the mic standing in one place, or it will be in the stand so its no huge deal... I am more curious as to why such a big difference between the performance of the 2 capsules ...
Currently Being ModeratedDec 31, 2012 5:29 PM (in response to Reason413)Re: XDV-30 & XDV35 differences
I'll just address the one bit of your conundrum that I understand, Reason413...
Switching the newer (V35) handheld to RF1 mode will not only allow its full interoperability with the older V30 receiver, but is also (to my mind) the far more robust of the two frequency schemes.
You'd need to do this anyway, as any attempt to simultaneously operate both schemes in the one venue will almost certainly end in tears ...and we all hate seeing fully-grown adults cry, ...common though that sight may be at this time of year.
Aside from the paperwork that should have been enclosed with your new unit, the full "step-by-step" guide to performing that switch-over can also be found in Line6Tony's excellent paper, here:
Regrettably, all I can do is share and commiserate with your bafflement at the differences between two editions of what should be identical capsules.
Like you, I'm hoping that someone from Line 6 can chime in with more information.
Currently Being ModeratedJan 1, 2013 1:50 AM (in response to Reason413)Re: XDV-30 & XDV35 differences
Heres the other thing I found interesting... the V30 mic again while the same model number etc. does not switch between RF1 and RF2 which I found strange... the one that came with the V35 does... but also the V30 mic works with both recievers without changing anything.....
I dont seem to have a problem using both recievers and mics at the same time at all... so thats cool.... The only think I'm thinking is its possible for some reason the impedence in the one capsule that is hotter than the other is possibly a inner component causing the capsule to have less impedence maybe?? I too am curious to see what Line6 has to say... I also wonder if they would be willing to swap capsules with me since the one in question as to being too sensitive I just bought brand new at guitar center so it should be under warranty.... I wouldnt want to swap out the whole kit.. just the capsule if possible.... I guess I will wait and see what they say
Currently Being ModeratedJan 1, 2013 5:00 AM (in response to Reason413)Re: XDV-30 & XDV35 differences
The V30's an earlier model with older firmware that pre-dates Line 6's development of the more "WiFi and Bluetooth friendly" RF2 scheme of frequencies, ...so it's behaving exactly as it should.
- It's so easy to switch your newer V35 to the RF1 scheme and
- You are definitely setting yourself up for range-limiting and dropout "disasters" with both schemes operating together,
I'd strongly recommend that you "default" to operating your gear on different channels of the RF1 four-frequency diversity scheme, rather than suffer the inconvenience and cost of surrendering your V30 to have its firmware updated for access to the less robust two frequency diversity RF2 scheme, an upgrade that I consider to be futile, UNLESS you regularly operate very close to (and wish to co-operate with) WiFi and Bluetooth users.
As for the variation in capsule responses, in my experience Guitar Center are one of the more reputable and easily approachable suppliers, so maybe a call to their toll-free (866) 498 7882 might yield a trial swap to another capsule, ...in the event that Line 6 indicate that you may have received an atypical "rogue".
Currently Being ModeratedJan 1, 2013 8:21 AM (in response to RonMarton)Re: XDV-30 & XDV35 differences
ok, so to be clear the V30 is by default in RF1 .. the V35 is switchable.. so you recommend using that in RF1 ....
I will give GC a call and see what they say.... I'm willing to bet that they direct me to line 6 anyway... I sould prefer just to do a capsule swap like i said rather than give up my whole unit... the other thing is.. all of this may be for nothing because I may end up swapping out the line 6 capsule on my own mic for something else soon anyway ... I am super picky with microphones and right now I am very happy with the mic, Ive only used it one gig. the sound system was garbage but I still enjoyed how the vocals were clear through the mix and he buzz and crackling of the speakers at this venue.... I'm definately going to overhaul that system lol...
Ya know.. I'll run that by you Ron... This place utilizes Powered Mackie Thumps for their PA... I believe the mixer they use is also powered.... there is a horrible buzz an hum an intermittent crackling in the system... I didnt get a good chance to mess with anything but I did notice that the mackie powered speakers were only set to about the 5 o clock position on the overall volume.. the system was loud enough but my guess was that the powered speakers were not turned up enough and the powered mixer they are using is turned up too high... is this theory correct?
Currently Being ModeratedJan 1, 2013 9:29 AM (in response to Reason413)Re: XDV-30 & XDV35 differences
One of the advantages of Line6 digital mics is that they product the full low frequencies of the mic capsule. Because of that you may ( or not) notice more handling noise than other brands which simple cut off the mic. When using the mics for vocals it's probably a good idea to engage the mixer's high pass filters switch on the input channels.
The mic capsules are different between V30 and V35 mics and there are some small differences in the new v2 firmware that may account for a difference in level. If you flash the V30 with the new firmware it should make them the same.
WRT the speakers and their input controls, you probably want to turn them down to the 10'oclock position for most mixers. That should improe the noise problem a lot.
Currently Being ModeratedJan 1, 2013 10:48 AM (in response to dboomer)Re: XDV-30 & XDV35 differences
Thanks Dboomer however.. are you talking about the firmware on the transmitter? the mic sound the same on both recievers so I am unclear as to what that has to do with the capsules...
I was under the impression that the V30 was modeled after the sm58 the same way the V35 is.... they look the same... sound the same as far as singing goes... the biggest difference is the sensitivity... can you detail how they are different? I know I'm being a pain
Currently Being ModeratedJan 1, 2013 12:53 PM (in response to Reason413)Re: XDV-30 & XDV35 differences
Don is indeed referring to transmitter firmware, ...as I was earlier when I recommended against going to the trouble of upgrading the V30.
Your preference for the "older" sound and your possible swap to third party capsules would both seem to confirm that recommendation.
As for the Mackie's well-engineered "Thump" powered speakers, achieving "horrible buzz and hum and intermittent crackling" from them in combination with any half-decent mixer is quite a feat, most likely caused by an unholy mess of defective and incorrect connections, coupled with incompetent operation.
Your initial instinct regarding the gain structure is both correct and a pointer to that lack of technical expertise, as "5 o'clock" would have the Thumps' input attenuators "almost full on", the consequence of which would be an almost certain "underdriving" of the mixer for them to yield usable (albeit nasty-sounding) levels.
"Almost full on" at the Thumps is pretty much "mic level" sensitivity, which is the probable source of most of the "hum and buzz".
Mackie are at pains to mark "Unity" gain on their controls, which you'll see at the "noon" position on their Thumps, the theory being that maximum distortion-free gain can easily be obtained by setting to that mark and subsequently deriving signals from inputs attenuated so that the downstream controls of Mackie mixers yield correct levels when set to their "Unity" settings.
As Don says, however, most of us tend to reduce the Thumps' input level attenuators so that they sit around the "10 or 11 o'clock" mark, which allows for roughly 3 to 4dB of "overshoot" in the event that unexpected peaks "catch out" the FOH mixer.
That attenuation still yields levels that are more than adequate (friggin' loud enough) for most pubs and clubs, given the sensitivity of even the smaller Mackie (TH-12A) Thumps.
Currently Being ModeratedJan 1, 2013 1:16 PM (in response to Reason413)Re: XDV-30 & XDV35 differences
When I talk about firmware you really need to flash both pieces. Things that you might assume are in one piece may actually be in the other... Although all line 6 systems work together no matter if you have only flashed half the system ( to the lowest performance level).
Now that I think about it I will have to check in a few days to see if there was any tweak done because of the change in capsules. They are very close some there may not be any.
How much difference in sensitivity are you experiencing? Have you actually measured it? There's probably a difference in sensitivity in your mixer channels as well so you'd really need to make a measurement to know whether or not you has a "problem". The capsules are different so you are not comparing apples to apples anyway.
Currently Being ModeratedJan 1, 2013 1:30 PM (in response to dboomer)Re: XDV-30 & XDV35 differences
Apparently, Don, the unfavourable "handling noise" artefacts to which Reason413 refers seem to follow the newer of the two capsules.
The report that they "sound the same as far as singing goes" would tend to confirm the accuracy of Line 6's "58" modeling that's built into both.
Given the intended application and the possibility of a Shure 58 "head swap", I honestly don't see that there's much to be gained by surrendering the eBay purchased V30 for re-flashing.
Currently Being ModeratedJan 1, 2013 6:38 PM (in response to RonMarton)Re: XDV-30 & XDV35 differences
Dboomer, when I compared things, I used the same mixer channel , same EQ, same everything with both systems.... and I when I change capsules the newer capsule gives you the results I stated... stand behind the fact that they sound the same as far as when singing... best way for me to describe it is the V35 capsule acts like a mic with the gained turned up a tad too high... Its not a major issue... but the capsule that came with the V30 I'd say the handling noise on a scale of 1 to 10 I'd give it a 4 and the handling noise on the capsule that came with the V35 is a 7 .. I was just surprized to see such a difference between to systems that are virtually the same
Currently Being ModeratedJan 2, 2013 3:57 PM (in response to Reason413)Re: XDV-30 & XDV35 differences
I am surprised too. They are the same part number and assembly. How recent is your V35? We might want to run through a few here too.
Initially the XD-V35's were tested to ensure they matched the sound design of the V30. So your result is not expected.
Currently Being ModeratedJan 2, 2013 4:55 PM (in response to sdevino)Re: XDV-30 & XDV35 differences
Thank you for that sdevino... I am considering bringing back the unit to Guitar Center and exchanging it for another one... but of course I will test it to see what kind of handling noise I end up with on the other V35 that they would give me... I will let you know the results of that
Currently Being ModeratedJan 2, 2013 5:04 PM (in response to Reason413)Re: XDV-30 & XDV35 differences
If you're visiting the store...
The friendly folks at Guitar Center may even allow you access to more than one of their stock of new or "demo" XD-V35s for an "on the spot" comparison between both them and your "original" XD-V30.
That type of "test session" might yield really useful info as well as being good "P.R". for them.
Currently Being ModeratedJan 2, 2013 7:30 PM (in response to RonMarton)Re: XDV-30 & XDV35 differences
unfortunaely they were out of stock on the V35 my only option would have been to return it and they would order me a new one.... I declines since I do like the mic and dont want to get rid of it... call me crazy LOL I am more interested if this is just the way the V35 capsules are or if I have a mutant..
Currently Being ModeratedJan 2, 2013 7:41 PM (in response to Reason413)Re: XDV-30 & XDV35 differences
For what it's worth, I'd have done the same...
As I reckon you've still got a set-up that's way ahead of any similarly-priced wireless gear that's out there.
You have also raised an interesting issue that I'm sure the Line 6 folks will now be investigating, given their excellent track record of consistent quality in all their products.
Currently Being ModeratedJan 2, 2013 8:56 PM (in response to RonMarton)Re: XDV-30 & XDV35 differences
Honestly, many people grimace when I tell them I bought a Line6 wireless... Im not sure why.. I love the mic so far... BUT the sound system we used it on was subpar.. so if I liked it on that sytem I know I'll like it on a good one... We play mostly churches and small coffee houses and I wasnt interested in the mic modeling features of the higher end... though if I finally form a band that is playing in arenas I think the XD70 system will be in order.... I have been spoiled using the Wired Electrovoice BK-1 because I had so much freedom as far as how far from the mic I could be so I never ever has popping on my Ps an Bs etc.. so I have to work with this Line6 mic and perfect my mic techinque some, to avoid any issues with it... you know what they say about practice LOL
Currently Being ModeratedJan 2, 2013 10:16 PM (in response to Reason413)Re: XDV-30 & XDV35 differences
Yep, there are no such things as too much practice or enough learning !
As we discussed in another thread, the "openness" and "workable" proximity control of silky bass with the BK-1 made it one of my favourites as well.
Regarding mouth to mic "proximity", a technique you might try (largely only possible because of the XD-V's clean transmission and excellent suppression of feedback) would be to introduce moderate compression at the console to "give you back" some more of that distance-induced expression control.
In the absence of the magnificently intuitive dynamics built into Line 6's StageScape M20d, (...it's only money, after all...) there are a few surprisingly cheap Mackie and Yamaha mixers that do have excellent "one knob" compressors on some of their XL inputs.
If you get the opportunity, it would be great for you to experiment with "winding" one of those compressors up to somewhere between "9 o'clock and noon" to help provide something like that type of intuitive distance-controlled expression with your two XD-Vs.
Currently Being ModeratedJan 3, 2013 12:19 PM (in response to Reason413)Re: XDV-30 & XDV35 differences
While Behringer undoubtedly give the most "facilities per dollar", it's my opinion that their headroom is poorer and that their overall "sound" isn't as clean as the slightly more expensive Mackie and Yamaha equivalents.
Regrettably, Mackie's cheapest mixer with "one knob" compressors is the powered PPM608,
but I feel that this little Yammie is a far sweeter-sounding and more rugged direct competitor to the Xenyx 1622, albeit at a (very slightly) higher price and without the USB :
Bear in mind that, in expressing these opinions, I've neither affilliation with nor loyalty to any manufacturer or supplier.
Currently Being ModeratedJan 3, 2013 5:35 PM (in response to RonMarton)Re: XDV-30 & XDV35 differences
actually the Mackie PROFX16 has 4 channels with compressor knobs and is cheaper than the powered one you posted... I wouldnt waste my money on a powered mixer because I prefer powered speakers in all honesty.. only because of the versatility I have with them... I am planning on getting some of those new ALTO powered speakers I saw and demo'd at Guitar Center.. I really like the sound for the price point... I currently have Powered Crate PSM12 Speakers I use and in some v aenues, I just set them up as monitors... and others I use them as mains.. all depends... the drawbacks with the powered speakers for me has been lack of places to plug them in and of course one more wire to run in addition to the speakers... but it is what it is.. thank the good lord for the ability to daisy chain ..
Currently Being ModeratedJan 3, 2013 6:28 PM (in response to Reason413)Re: XDV-30 & XDV35 differences
These guys have a good deal on that sweet-sounding Mackie that includes a really handy Gator GMIX soft case:
I know it's twice the price of Behringer's Xenyx 1622, but IMHO it's vastly superior in ruggedness, versatility and (above all) "cleanliness" of audio.
I also reckon it would be a crying shame to risk "dirtying" the clean CD-quality signal-path of your mics if your budget can indeed stretch to something as good as the ProFx 16.
Although I find the inbuilt amps of my powered mixer handy for driving auxilliary monitors or delay feeds, I'm entirely with you in thinking that powered loudspeakers really are the better option for indoor gigs as they take care of so many variables at the "business end".
(Naturally I much prefer not having mains voltages anywhere near my outdoor weather-proof One Systems and Bose speakers.)
You may find it handy to pack three 30' extension cables loaded into one of these http://www.amazon.com/Quick-Winder-RAP-100-Electric-Fiber/dp/B0000225E4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1357265091&sr=8-1&keywords=quick+winder+rap-100+electric+cord+and+fiber+optic+cable+reel for power around the venues.
As for Alto's PS4LA and PS2A powered speakers, I heard rave reports about them a few years ago, but I have a feeling that they're now discontinued, so you'd best check on parts and spares back-up before investing, should these be the models being offered cheaply.
However Alto's current TS110A and 115A speakers are quickly winning lots of friends, so I'm looking forward to hearing some for myself.
Currently Being ModeratedJan 4, 2013 7:52 AM (in response to RonMarton)Re: XDV-30 & XDV35 differences
yeah the new Altos are what I was looking at the TS110s are what I am looking at...
I have a question for you... I am about to buy a Behringer Multicom XL Compressor/Gate Limiter from a friend will this be good to run vocal mics through such as my line 6 wireless ?
for $45 I dont think I can go wrong LOL I am not 100% sure on how to use the compressor for vocals...... any advice? and please.. act like I am 5 because alot of your technical terms ( in other posts Ive read by you ) I get lost in a sea of my own stupidity lol
Currently Being ModeratedJan 4, 2013 12:14 PM (in response to Reason413)Re: XDV-30 & XDV35 differences
There must be something in that Florida water, I reckon. Alto are yet another example of the wonderful and innovative music and audio scene they have down there.
It can't possibly be due to Gatorade, can it?
Forgive me, but before we get into an operational discussion of Behringer's excellent MDX4600 Multicom rack unit, ...three of what I guess are "philosophical" points:
- It ain't "stupidity". My half century of learning from others only became worthwhile precisely because I asked for clear answers, exactly as you're doing and I still do to this day;
- Not asking WOULD be stupid and
- For the sake of others who may have similar queries, (and if you don't mind) I'd prefer to answer this in response to a new question from you, maybe with a title along the lines of "Using An Outboard Compressor with XD-Vs" and preferably with tags such as: behringer compressor vocal_compression XD-V XD-V_and_compressor
On reflection, I should have also made it clearer that the "headroom" and sonic reservations I expressed earlier in this discussion applied only to the Behringer "budget" or "entry-level" Xenyx that you mentioned and not to their entire product range, some components of which truly are first-rate.