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273 Views 9 Replies Latest reply: Jan 6, 2013 2:22 PM by milesargall RSS
milesargall Just Startin'
milesargall
83 posts since
Sep 8, 2010
Currently Being Moderated

Jan 1, 2013 6:55 PM

Ok. I'm an idiot.  And need help.

Yep.  Here we go again.

 

You may read my other thread I started about not getting good tones (not sounds) out of my podhd300 an dive had a few helpful replies.

But we are now on holidays and get back (to my pod and amp and gear) tomorrow so I'm keen to give it one more try.

 

But could I please have some basic help.  When people mention "tweaking" a sound what do you mean?  I'm sure you're not talking add a it of delay or reverb etc etc. cab changed etc etc... And EQ ing a sound won't alter "tone"

 

There are too many people on this forum saying they are getting sounds almost exactly like a real amp so what. Am I doing wrong?  I'm sure it's operator error so want to start again from the beginning.

 

I'm running it through a Trace Elliot C100 speed twin 2 speaker combo - last of he UK built ones with the last of the UK built Celestians.  My guitar is a Gibson Les Paul (2000 Gary Moore model) upgraded with 57 classics and 50's wiring / bumblebee caps.

 

I'm only looking for the basic 4 channels / sounds on the DT range - particularly the thickness of channel IV.

 

Again - to reiterate - I'm getting great sounds but terrible digital tone.

 

So what do I need to do a step at a time in simple terms.  Live vs studio switch, pre vs full sim, amp and cab models - anything......

 

 

It's been suggested I start with going through he effects loop and not the front.....  Good idea???

 

 

Thanks so much.   I want to have what most of you do.......!!!!!

  • JTSC777 Just Startin'
    JTSC777
    63 posts since
    Jun 22, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 1, 2013 9:59 PM (in response to milesargall)
    Re: Ok. I'm an idiot.  And need help.

    No such thing as a  stupid question. Only stupid answers. Set the front panel switch to "live" not "studio". use that mono 1/4 in. out put to go to your amps effect loop return jack. Turn the POD master output on the front panel about halfway up. This is a starting point only. You have good gear and an especially nice guitar so you have hope!. What I do is listen to a recording(live if possible) of a players sound I like and using the editor on my laptop work with only amp and overdrive /distortion settings until I approximate what sound I am after. A lot of this is trial and error. I have owned many high quality tube amps in my years of playing so I know how they should sound. Go slowly and take your time and take regular breaks while you do this. It is a process but the rewards are great. I just played a New Years Eve gig with just an HD300-GR55 and an Alto 10 in. powered speaker to a 200 plus person room and it killed!!! Many of the answers to tone tweaking are on this forum. I do it in the way I described above. Directly using recorded sounds for comparison and going from there.As an example if you want a Gary Moore type sound you must start with a Marshall Plexi or Soldano amp and an older sounding overdrive pedal model. Good Luck!

  • CairnsFella Just Startin'
    CairnsFella
    205 posts since
    Sep 16, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 2, 2013 10:24 PM (in response to milesargall)
    Re: Ok. I'm an idiot.  And need help.

    milesargall wrote:

     

    ... And EQ ing a sound won't alter "tone"

     

     

    You experienced and professional guys get me so confused. Whilst I appreciatte that the "tone" often referred to in these pages includes the actual type of sound generated, I also thought EQ was still a key part of this. Im 99.99% sure of this outside of the 'guitar world'. Indeed in guitar parlance I thought terms such as "tone stack" referred to a limited three band fixed frequency EQ, and that the very simplest EQ available on old gear was labelled 'tone'.

     

    Im sure I'll never get my head around everything, but I'd be gratefull to understand how guitarists consider EQ doesnt alter tone, as I fear I have been misreading a lot of posts if this is the case.

    • milesargall Just Startin'
      milesargall
      83 posts since
      Sep 8, 2010
      Currently Being Moderated
      Jan 3, 2013 12:51 AM (in response to CairnsFella)
      Re: Ok. I'm an idiot.  And need help.

      To start with - JTS - thanks so much.

      I've fixed it.  Simple as that (Cairns dude - read on......)

       

      I started a thread a few weeks ago where someone else also suggested going through the effects loop and hadn't had a chance to give it a go.

      This is what fixed the "digital adding problem" to the "tone" - as soon as I went through the EL I got a completely different sound.   More real; more analogue.  Less digital.

       

       

      NOW I have somewhere to start when it comes to getting my sounds right (what does Cold Shot SOUND like compared to Brown Sugar???!!?!) etc etc.

       

      I've only experimented a little with Pre and full sims (any suggestions there?) and cab selections but am already stunned by the sound qualities - and I haven't really started....

       

      So to comment on Cairnsy (are you Aussie as well - that Cairns?). Don't take my word too much I'm not a pro - but, yeah, EQing is pretty important to your tone (as opposed to sound) - but to cut through a mix.  Too middy could mean honky.  Too bassy could mean muddy.   Too trebly could be ice picky.

      Scooping your EQ gives ou that great metal sound if you want it.

      I'm building a Warmoth Strat and am experimenting with putting in an EMG SPC & EXGB tone control to increase mids  and scoop respectively.

       

      But I wasn't talking tone via EQing.  I was talking what turned out to be operator error.  My first Line 6 amp was a Flextone 3 (might have even 2) it sounded great. But digital. And I'm a valve tone junkie.

      But these new products (DT & HD) have come a long way.  I hae considered buying a DT - but just love my Trace amp that's not made in China.  (No disrespect).

      Now it looks like I've got the best of both worlds.

       

      Cheers again for the help.

      • CairnsFella Just Startin'
        CairnsFella
        205 posts since
        Sep 16, 2012
        Currently Being Moderated
        Jan 3, 2013 1:16 AM (in response to milesargall)
        Re: Ok. I'm an idiot.  And need help.

        milesargal,

         

        Glad you got yourself sorted.

         

        I was probably  - as usual - unclear with the point of my question. Im pretty familiar with EQ'ing, having dabbled with my home studio for the last 20 years on and off. Not saying I am expert.... but I have a familiarity. But as a guitarist.. well... though I try, I am not one ( spent too much time fiddling with tech).

         

        All it was, was your comment "EQ ing a sound won't alter "tone"" made me wonder if 'guitarists' for some reason exclude EQ from their 'tone' considerations, and only include it when explicitly stating 'EQ'. Seems like a minor point, but I read pretty much all the threads in here to learn as much as I can - yet again detracting from actual playing - and had that been the case I would have been misreading a LOT of stuff.

         

        Anyway, seems that you are not saying EQ doesnt alter tone after all (indeed you have now said "EQing is pretty important to your tone").. so all is good, Im not going mad, and I dont have to re-read a load of posts.

         

        ... and yes.... I do live in that 'Cairns'... but Im from England originally.

      • PremiumJones Iknowathingortwo
        PremiumJones
        238 posts since
        Mar 29, 2008
        Currently Being Moderated
        Jan 3, 2013 1:20 AM (in response to milesargall)
        Re: Ok. I'm an idiot.  And need help.

        Start with pre models, but dont be afraid to try different combos of per/power/cab and mic steups. Much like the FX loop Return is the general sort of best idea when it comes to pluggin a POD into a guitar amp, using only Pre models is a general best idea when using a real power amp and speakers for the same reason - you dont wanto to double up on any tone-shaping stage. The main ones are the preamp, the power amp, the speaker, and the mic.

         

        What you were doing when you plugged into the front of your amp was double the preamp stage. That sounded bad, as it usualy will. By the same logic, using a Full amp model will double the power amp and speaker parts, so it will probably not sound as good as using Pre models. You want a tone to be as pure as it can be so your power amp and nice real V30 speakers can color the tone naturally. If you add a Full model with V30s in it, then you are adding the tonal shaping of the V30s twice, which will sound wonky.

         

        But again, try differnt things, cuase you never know what you will like.

         

        EQ can have a vast effect on tone depending on where you put it. Post-amp EQ will make things change in drastic ways.

  • JTSC777 Just Startin'
    JTSC777
    63 posts since
    Jun 22, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 5, 2013 10:42 AM (in response to milesargall)
    Re: Ok. I'm an idiot.  And need help.

    One other thing I do with all my guitar processors whetther it's modelling or pedals into an amp. I increase the midrange on the model or the amp for my lead tones just to the point where it starts to sound a bit unpleasant and stop. I do this because when that drummer starts playing and that bass player starts playing and that keyboard player or other guitar player starts playing that lead tone you spent three hours on at home will be BURIED LOL!!! I learned this from Will Ray of the Hellecasters who correctly points out that guitar players don't know how to manage mid-range. I changed my approach accordingly and do not have to play so damn loud anymore and I know my lead tones always poke through any mix.Probably some of the best advice I can give. Have Fun!!!

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