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363 Views 16 Replies Latest reply: Jan 24, 2013 1:14 PM by meambobbo RSS
bossredman Just Startin' 7 posts since
Aug 9, 2011
Currently Being Moderated

Jan 22, 2013 10:11 PM

HD500 amps/patches sound loads better through headphones than through Powered Monitors

Hi - looking for some help pls.

 

Wondering if I'm doing something wrong withmy setup - as the basic fact is my patches/tones sound loads better through my headphones than through my powerd monitors.

 

I've heard what this unit is capable of - so am convinced its something in my setup/gear

 

I'm just a bedroom player using amp/cab sims and have no real depth of knowledge of gear & their setup - but to be honest through the monitors the Amps sound quite flat & don't sparkle - but through the headphones they sound great & how I think an amp sound sound.

The contrast is like chalk & cheese.

 

Gear: Fender Strat (60's re-issue) - no mods > HD500 > pair of Alesis M1 Active 520 USB Powered Monitors (connected via 1/4" out).

 

HD500 General settings:

 

Input 1 Source: Guit +Aux +Variax

Input 2 Source: Same

Guitar in - Z: 1m

 

Output: Studio/Direct

 

Master: 4 o'clock

Volume: to suit bed room level

 

Switches:

1/4" Out: Line

XLR: Ground

Guitar In: Normal

 

Monitor Volume: approx 75% of max

 

I get the feeling it's something really simple - as I've heard some great sounding clips on you tube.

 

Any advise is welcomed pls.

  • Ed_Saxman Just Startin' 62 posts since
    Jan 4, 2010

    [Input 1 Source: Guit +Aux +Variax] = Noisy. Choose guitar instead.

     

    [Master: 4 o'clock + Monitor Volume: approx 75% of max] = Bad signal-to-noise ratio. Turn Master Knob as high as possible, then set an appropiate volume on your monitors. Personally I used the Master Knob cranked to 100% all the time (this only applies to analog outputs. No effect using USB/SPDIF). Please RTFM and/or: http://foobazaar.com/podhd/toneGuide/tipsAndPitfalls#masterKnob

  • mdmayfield Just Startin' 353 posts since
    Feb 24, 2007

    Those aren't particularly powerful monitors, especially in the low bass and high treble range, so it might simply be that they're not as good as your headphones.

     

    Another, maybe more likely, possibility is that the volume is simply much more different between the two than it seems. Our ears hear differently at different loudness levels, and louder sounds with the same tone settings have much more bass & treble (punch & sparkle) at higher volume than lower.

     

    To get speakers to be as loud as the level most people listen to headphones, the sound would almost have to shake the whole room.

  • meambobbo Iknowathingortwo 1,702 posts since
    Dec 13, 2007

    it's natural for open-air sounds to have less highs than headphones due to interference in your room.  Sound reflects off of walls, floors, and ceilings.  It doesn't go from your speakers to your ears and disappear.  the reflections will likely interfere with the sound coming directly from your speakers.  lower frequencies have longer wavelengths and thus will be more likely to create positive rather than negative interference, especially in a smaller room.

     

    In a room with somewhat good dampening on the walls, the reverse is true, because high frequencies are easily absorbed while low frequencies are difficult to absorb.

     

    Depending on the position of the speakers and the shape/size of the room, it's possible to interference patterns, where certain frequencies converge and will be dampened in certain places in the room.  So try moving around the room.

     

    Also note that it's not simply an even roll-off of this frequency or that.  It is more of a comb filter that can create notches through the frequency spectrum (although not nearly as straight-forward as a true comb filter because the audio is reflecting off of infinite points).  But the point is that the tone can sound weak and dead, and even slightly phasy.

  • meambobbo Iknowathingortwo 1,702 posts since
    Dec 13, 2007

    someone recently asked me about what is better - headphones or monitors.  here was my response:

    That's a very open-ended question unfortunately.  For instance, what if someone else is listening using the exact same headphones as you or the exact same monitors as you?  Then they'll hear it probably very similarly to how you're hearing it through those devices currently.  The real question is whether the headphones or the monitors more accurately represent the average listening experience for others, who will be using a wide variety of headphones and speakers.  You should record some stuff, then play it back on every system you have - car stereo, home stereo, tv speakers, cheap headphones, etc.  Get a feel for the sound on all of these devices, and keep asking yourself whether the monitors or the headphones better represent all those devices.

     

    Headphones have an advantage over monitors in that they are consistent from one room to the next.  Monitors are not.  The size, shape, and wall/floor/ceiling material of your room will affect the tone.  Also, where you position the monitors in the room matters as well.  On the other hand, a room can make things sound better - the natural reverb adds a bit more space to the tone and things don't sound as dry.

     

    The above point needs to be taken care of in your patches.  If you have absolutely no reverb of any kind in your patches, there will be an obvious difference in tone between headphones and speakers.  Keep in mind real mic'ed cabs, even when close mic'ed, capture some reverb from the room.  It may not be much, but it's enough to make the recorded sound be more similar sounding when listened to via headphones vs. speakers. So for my really dry rhythm guitar tracks, I tend to use at least a tad of E.R. in my patches.  Even if it's < 5%, it makes them sound more similar in headphones vs. speakers.  I tend to use dual cab patches for rhythm guitars.  For the darker cab/mic selection, I use more E.R.  For that channel the E.R. doesn't have the noticeable echo-y sound that can stick out too much.  I'll use between 12-20%.  For the brighter cab, I am more conservative, usually between 4-8%.  And I never use E.R. if I can use a Reverb effect instead.  Usually I simply don't have the DSP to do so.  If you do use reverb on a rhythm track where you don't want it to be too prominent, rather than exclusively messing with the decay and mix parameters, try setting the tone to darker/lower settings.  I usually set pre-delay to 0.

     

    For me, I mainly use my headphones.  I can use them at louder volumes, and there's no room to consider.  I find they pretty accurately represent the majority of other playback devices I have.  When I follow the above advice about using a tad of reverb to prevent the tone from being too dry, they sound very similar to my monitors.

     

    Now, there's occasionally some strange differences.  Really I'll hear something annoying about the tone in the headphones that I don't hear on the monitors or vice versa.  Once I hear it on one, I can pay attention and hear it on the other.

     

    As for monitor settings, if you have EQ switches, I'd just play with them to try to get them to sound as flat as possible, which can be a difficult exercise.  I know my headphones are relatively flat, so I shoot to make the monitors sound as close as possible to the headphones.

     

    So I'd say your headphones are probably gonna be the better representation, but your tone should sound good on both.  Don't rely on one totally over the other.  Test on both.  If a tone works one way but not the other, you may end having to compromise where the tone doesn't sound perfect on either but pretty good on both.  But you want it to sound best on whatever device most accurately represents as many other playback devices as possible.

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