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392 Views 13 Replies Latest reply: Feb 27, 2013 12:50 PM by innovine RSS
radatats Just Startin'
radatats
38 posts since
Nov 1, 2006
Currently Being Moderated

Jan 23, 2013 10:11 PM

Using the HD500 with DT25

I just got my HD500 and my DT25 and they are both awesome.  As suggested, first thing I did was to update the firmware on both, no problems.  I installed the HD Edit software and the DT Edit software (http://code.google.com/p/dtedit).  I think both pieces of gear are fantastic but the documentation absolutely sucks for usability.  I am going to take a whack at laying out some of the features as I believe it to be and I hope to get your feedback and corrections.

 

1.  DT25

  • Internal HD preamp models (29) feeding tube power section. No tubes in preamp signal path.
  • Topology (Voicing) changes preset configurations of internal preamp model and power section configuration (Negative Feedback Loop, Class A/AB, Pentode/Triode).
  • Pentode = 25 watts, Triode = 10 watts.
  • All settings configurable with DT Edit software.
  • You can setup 4 different internal amp patches for each channel.

 

2.  HD500 into DT25

  • HD500 preamp models (29) feeding DT25 tube power section (internal HD models bypassed).
  • Patch settings (Drive, Bass, Mid, Presence, Reverb, Volume) set by HD500 regardless of DT25 knob position. Changes can then be made on either HD500 or DT25.
  • HD500 Master is bypassed, DT25 Master is functional.
  • HD500 sets power section configuration (Negative Feedback Loop, Class A/AB, Pentode/Triode).
  • Exception to that rule: if you turn the amp block(s) off in the HD500 patch, the DT25 signal will default to channel B of the DT25 and use the currently selected Topology (Internal preamp, Negative Feedback Loop, Class A/AB, Pentode/Triode) settings on the amp.

 

3. Preamp vs Full Amp models.

  • Both feed signal direct to the tube power section.
  • Full amp model adds more coloration to the signal to help sound like the chosen model.

 

4. Tube Power Section of DT25

  • Only affected directly by the Topology, Class A/AB, Pentode/Triode switches.
  • All other switches (Drive, Bass, Mid, Presence, Reverb, Volume) affect modeled signal feeding power section.
  • Master switch controls power section output to your speakers.

 

5. Dual vs Single Amp Patches.

  • DT25 cannot process stereo signal.  HD500 output is always fed to channel A unless amp blocks are turned off in the HD500.
  • Dual amp patches can still be created but the signal will be mixed and summed before passing to the DT25 channel A.
  • Channel switching can be done by creating single amp patch and assigning the amp block ON/OFF to a footswitch. 
    • With the amp block ON, HD500 modeled signal passes to channel A power section. 
    • With the amp block OFF, signal with effects passes to channel B of DT25 and uses the currently selected Topology including internal preamp modeling and power section configuration.
    • Setup properly, you can get a clean/dirty amp change with all effects remaining the same using just the one footswitch.

 

6. DT25 Power Section Settings Not Set Automatically in HD Edit or DT Edit.

  • Epic fail.  Big selling point was amp settings automatically adjust when you select the corresponding amp model.  However,  no matter what amp or preamp you choose in the software, you will have to manually configure the DT25 power section.
  • HD500 will change the power section to whatever the patch settings are but they will only be what you set them to be when you create the patch.  Default seems to be Class AB, Topology 1, Pentode.
  • There is no documentation that lists the correct settings for each amp model.  So if you select the Gibtone 185 it has the same settings as the Bomber Uber by default. 
  • POD HD500 Model Gallery does not describe topology settings.

 

7. Questions...

  • Where can we get the info to set DT25 power sections up properly ourselves?
  • Where can we download the original factory set lists?  (When I did the Firmware update my factory DT setlist was gone...)
  • Is there a way to post set lists to the Custom Tone page?
  • Where can we download the complete set of tones from Custom Tone in HD Edit format?  I downloaded the Zip file from the FAQ but the patches are not in HD Edit format.
  • Where is the best place in the signal chain to place a Volume Pedal? 
    • If I set it in the beginning, it affects the signal driving the preamp module and therefore gain level and distortion. 
    • If I set it at the end it should only control the total signal level feeding the power section with preamp gain, distortion and all effects intact. 
    • Do I have that right?
  • Low Volume Mode (LVM) without the HD500 uses the full internal amp model but what does it do to the power section settings? 
    • Does it just feed a reduced strength signal to the power amp and therefore compensates with the extra amp modeling?
    • Does it automatically switch to the 10 watt mode?
    • Is there another lower wattage being output that is not documented?

 

Appreciate your input and responses... Hope this is clear enough for everyone. Lets add on with helpful info.

Tags: pod, software, tone, volume, fx, update, bug, edit, patch, preset, cable, 6, problem, hd, effects, stereo, help, 500, hd500, pod_hd_500, dt, dt25, dt-25, dt_25
  • nd_mustang Just Startin'
    nd_mustang
    41 posts since
    Dec 22, 2009
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 24, 2013 8:38 AM (in response to radatats)
    Re: Using the HD500 with DT25

    So, I'll try to respond to some of your questions/statements...

     

    I have a DT50, so my assumptions might be based on that and I might miss some differences between that and the DT25.

     

    I wasn't aware that if I didn't pick an amp block that it'd go to my "B" setting.  I'll have to see if that's the case with my DT50 or not, but is interesting. 

     

    Factory set list - I don't think it's possible, but I can likely email you it as I saved several of them from when I got my HD500.  Related, you can't d/l a set list from CustomTone, only one tone at a time, and then bring them in individually to a set.

     

    For the volume pedal, I don't add it in the FX area, rather, I go to the controllers and select the amp, then Volume for the control, then EXP1 and assign it there.  That way it doesn't take up a block.  I do the same thing for Drive - setting it to EXP2 (I added a Mission Engineering pedal).

     

    And finally, I cheat a bit on controlling volume overall in high power mode.  I use a THD HotPlate so I can crank it up, then lower it with the Hot Plate. 

  • Netfly Just Startin'
    Netfly
    40 posts since
    Jan 13, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 24, 2013 12:39 PM (in response to radatats)
    Re: Using the HD500 with DT25

    I really was not aware that the DT Edit software exist !! Is there a version for Mac users? I only see a Windows version :/

  • radatats Just Startin'
    radatats
    38 posts since
    Nov 1, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 24, 2013 8:21 PM (in response to radatats)
    Re: Using the HD500 with DT25

    CORRECTION

     

    • Pentode/Triode - does NOT change wattage, just power tube configuration and tone.
    • Class A = 10 watts,cathode bias (variable)
    • Class AB = 25 watts, fixed bias
  • doctapayne Just Startin'
    doctapayne
    1 posts since
    Aug 30, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 26, 2013 8:39 PM (in response to radatats)
    Re: Using the HD500 with DT25

    Thanks for the overview on your findings. I am new to this rig as well. It's fun but frustrating at the same time. But since I seem to learn a little more each time I dig into this area I suppose I'm at least headed in the right direction.....I was not aware that switching off the amp block switches the head to the "B" channel.....this is useful information. 

     

    My question regarding the DT25 and HD500 has to do with the 4 cable method.

     

    Is there any point in using this method when using the DT25 and HD500 when linked with the L6 Link?

     

    Everything I've been able to find regarding the 4 cable method has to do with other amps that don't have or use the L6 Link........My experience with the 4 cable method has been less than impressive to this point. I appreciate any helpful feedback. Thanks!

    • radatats Just Startin'
      radatats
      38 posts since
      Nov 1, 2006
      Currently Being Moderated
      Jan 27, 2013 2:33 PM (in response to doctapayne)
      Re: Using the HD500 with DT25

      Absolutely no point at all.  The DT25 is really a HD Preamp modeler feeding a tube power section.  The HD500 is a HD preamp modeler with configurable effects chains.  You create your virtual "4 cable method" in the HD500 and feed it to the power section in the DT25 through the L6 link, totally bypassing the internal preamp section in the DT25.

       

      The principles behind effect stacking and pre/post positioning are all good to follow when building your own presets using the HD Edit software.

       

      Edit:  I just came across a thread (http://line6.com/support/thread/91010?tstart=0) about bypassing the amp/preamps in the HD500 and using it in the 4 cable mode.  If you are happy with the internal amp/preamp settings in your DT25, you can follow the sugestions in that thread to set up your HD500 like an M13 and use it for effects only.  Interesting point they make is that without the amp/preamp block you won't hit the DSP limits and can use all 8 effect blocks at one time.  You won't be able to use the L6 link though, you will have to actually use the 4 cable method but its another option...

  • innovine Just Startin'
    innovine
    31 posts since
    Feb 14, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 27, 2013 12:50 PM (in response to radatats)
    Re: Using the HD500 with DT25

    ive been tweaking away at this for hours now trying to get the dt25 with hd500 sounding the same as te dt25 on its own, and the only conclusion i csn come to is that the preamp models in the dt25 are simply different (better). has anyone done a careful comparison after the firmware upgrade where all the hd500 preamps become available? can you then hear a difference in the dt25 solo or with the hd500 with the 'same' preamp?

     

    Ive eliminated basically everything i can think of, and am sitting here with the dt25 a and b channels set up identically. if i connect the pod and turn the amp block off i cant really tell the difference between b and plugging directly into the amp, as expected since its the dt25 preamp. but if i activate the amp block, there is a crappier tone, similar enough, but with lots less bass and sounds more cramped and narrow in some way (testing with p-75 brt pre). cab modelling turned off. what does the mic option do by the way?

     

    also, was i imagining it or did i see something in one of the manuals regarding calibration of the knobs...

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