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265 Views 19 Replies Latest reply: Mar 17, 2013 8:12 AM by mishulix RSS
rew432 Just Startin'
rew432
6 posts since
Mar 10, 2013
Currently Being Moderated

Mar 14, 2013 2:45 AM

Question on the multitrack.

Hello I'm from Russia, I want to clarify a few issues, because I doubt whether I translate into English.

Almost ready to buy this device, but there are issues.

1. The manual says that it is possible to record, save and playback on SD or multitrack harddisk.

To understand exactly what I give you an example and you tell me please if I understand.

   So I write the multitrack and his group, for example for 5 minutes. We call it a song 1. Then write the second and call the song 2. All of this is stored on sd.

    Can I now download and play song1 so that all the instruments sounded in their channels? That is, if I can so keep all my songs on the SD card and load them one by one to be played at the concert? My friends in the group may not always be present at the concert, so I need to be able performing some channels of recording drums for example. Not just a stereo mix, and every instrument by channel.

There is a possibility?

   And one more question, I do not understand is there any digital output? I have a digital crossover would not want to do resampling. Sorry for the mistakes, I translate through software in English.

  • litesnsirens Iknowathingortwo
    litesnsirens
    649 posts since
    Mar 20, 2010
    Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 14, 2013 6:28 AM (in response to rew432)
    Re: Question on the multitrack.

    To your first question, yes, when you record to the SD card each input channel will be recorded to a corresponding recording channel.  This is why you are able to do virtual soundchecks by recording some music and then going out front and mixing the the recording as it plays back.

     

    As far as using the recorded parts when certain members of the band are missing, the M20d will be able to do this but I think it would require your band playing to a metronome everytime or at least the drummer playing to a metronome.  Unless of course it's the drummer that is missng and you are playing to his/her pre-recorded drum parts.

    • jeanpicasso Just Startin'
      jeanpicasso
      4 posts since
      Feb 28, 2013
      Currently Being Moderated
      Mar 14, 2013 8:22 AM (in response to litesnsirens)
      Re: Question on the multitrack.

      how much difference is there between recording "inputs only" and "inputs and main", for doing the virtual soundcheck?

       

      is one of them preffered for soundchecking?

       

      I have tried one of the settings (i think it was inputs and main) and Im not all sure that it played back exactly what we "put in".

      • litesnsirens Iknowathingortwo
        litesnsirens
        649 posts since
        Mar 20, 2010
        Currently Being Moderated
        Mar 14, 2013 8:28 AM (in response to jeanpicasso)
        Re: Question on the multitrack.

        For soundcheck, I think I would record inputs only that way you aren't getting all your tracks plus a left + right mix of the same tracks.  I don't know if Line 6 has built in something that defeats the playback of the mains but if not it's going to make it hard to hear any adjustments you make to the mix because the mains won't change and it will mask for instance a level change to track 1 (or 2 or 3 etc).

    • rew432 Just Startin'
      rew432
      6 posts since
      Mar 10, 2013
      Currently Being Moderated
      Mar 14, 2013 11:39 AM (in response to litesnsirens)
      Re: Question on the multitrack.

      Yes, I understand. The record will be a metronome. Question, and may be sent to the record sounding drums in the headphones to the drummer, so he played in sync with the recording?

         Oh, the bottom already answered this question is no.

  • mishulix Just Startin'
    mishulix
    16 posts since
    Feb 9, 2013
    Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 14, 2013 7:42 AM (in response to rew432)
    Re: Question on the multitrack.

    Remember though, that if you try and play the internal media player, it will NOT be recorded with the rest of the tracks. If you need aditional playback backing tracks when recording, then use an external player and route it through 17-18 small stereo jack input. Or any other availible input.

  • silverhead Expert Line 6 User
    silverhead
    9,592 posts since
    Apr 1, 2009
    Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 14, 2013 9:05 AM (in response to rew432)
    Re: Question on the multitrack.

    I've just tested your question using my M20d and an SD card. I encountered a problem during playback. The problem is that I can't find a way to select a subset of the recorded tracks for playback. It seems that ALL recorded tracks are played back. The only way to inhibit the playback of some tracks (corresponding to your band members that are present for the live gig) is to MUTE the associated tracks. However, this also mutes the associated channel input, so the live sound from the present band members can't be heard.

     

    So, unless I am missing something, what you want to do is not possible using only the M20d. I welcome input from others who have tested this.

     

    But, if you have access to a computer and a DAW you can prepare your desired set of backing tracks in advance. Import the individual track/channel recorded wav files from your M20d recording folder (SD/USB device) into your DAW. Then create a WAV file mixdown of the desired tracks, corresponding to the missing band members. Then copy these backing track wav files to your m20d device and use the Media Player feature in the M20d to set up the playlist for your gig. When using the Media Player during your gig, remember to manually stop it after every song; by default the player immediately begins to play the next song in the list.

     

    This means you will have to know in advance which of your band members will be missing for any given gig, and create the associated backing tracks accordingly.

    • rew432 Just Startin'
      rew432
      6 posts since
      Mar 10, 2013
      Currently Being Moderated
      Mar 14, 2013 11:44 AM (in response to silverhead)
      Re: Question on the multitrack.

      Many thanks to all for your answers, here in Russia is not one to ask, no one would buy such a device. It is sad to admit that scares people is unusual, like a computer game interface.

      I studied the video and I think that the instructions made ​​this console is very convenient and clear for a musician.

         But your answer me upset. It turns out that select the source track during playback (from the map, or a live musician) can not? I think this is an important omission.Maybe it will fix in you next upgrade?

       

         Then I'll ask you one more question, when playing at all someone can play live? on the track that is playing? If so, you can not fill all the tracks and live instruments placed on the "empty" tracks.

      Another question, and if you take a throw multitrack DAW, and there are some channels to edit, and then move back to the same multi-channel video will play console waves edited?

      • silverhead Expert Line 6 User
        silverhead
        9,592 posts since
        Apr 1, 2009
        Currently Being Moderated
        Mar 14, 2013 1:11 PM (in response to rew432)
        Re: Question on the multitrack.

        I'm sorry - the software translator is making it difficult to understand your questions.

         

        Unfortunately the M20 d is not designed to do what you want to do. I don't know if this will be changed in a future update.

         

        The primary  purpose of the multitrack recorder on the M20d is to record the audio inputs to all channels for later processing in a DAW on a computer. The difference between the onboard 20-second 'sound check' recorder and the more general multitrack recorder is just a difference in the duration of the audio that can be captured. In both cases, the recorded dry audio tracks/channels are fed back into their respective channel inputs on playback. You can keep an instrument plugged into any recorded channel input and play along with the recorded playback - like an overdub except that the live play cannot be recorded 'on top'. What you can't do is select which channels/tracks will play back, so that you can replace some recorded tracks with live play while the rest of the tracks play back. All recorded tracks are played back. You can mute the playback, but this also mutes the physical channel inputs so that your live players can't be heard.

         

        EDIT: Your last question prompted me to try another test. I removed the SD card with my earlier recording on it, made a copy of the Record Folder to another folder, then deleted one of the audio files (corresponding to a band member). In other words, I tried to manufacture a playback folder that would simulate your situation where only one band member was present by playing back all other tracks/channels. Unfortunately, when this new folder was selected for playback in the M20d recorder, the folder appeared empty. The M20d did not recognize any of the audio files that are contained in the new folder. Apparently the M20d somehow knows whether or not an audio file was recorded directly; it does not recognize an exact copy.

        • rew432 Just Startin'
          rew432
          6 posts since
          Mar 10, 2013
          Currently Being Moderated
          Mar 14, 2013 1:10 PM (in response to silverhead)
          Re: Question on the multitrack.

          Sorry translates as Google. I understand what you are saying, I will try to explain in another way. Can I write only 5-6 channels? Or if recording is sure to play all the channels, I can write some of the channels on the silence? And then those who are silent connect live instruments? And can I change the settings of the track (FX, Comp, Gate) during the playback?

          • ArneLine6 Line 6 Support
            ArneLine6
            172 posts since
            Mar 14, 2012
            Currently Being Moderated
            Mar 14, 2013 1:21 PM (in response to rew432)
            Re: Question on the multitrack.

            Yes, you could record only a few channels. To do that you would have only these channels as stage icons, record and the add the "live" channels. This way you could play back the recorded channels while playing live on the others.

            You could also put the card into a computer and delete the files for the tracks that you do not want to use.

            And yes, you can change settings (FX, Comp, etc.) on recorded or live tracks.

          • silverhead Expert Line 6 User
            silverhead
            9,592 posts since
            Apr 1, 2009
            Currently Being Moderated
            Mar 14, 2013 1:26 PM (in response to rew432)
            Re: Question on the multitrack.

            Excellent suggestion! Yes, I just tried that and it works! My earlier recording has 4 input channels/tracks. While this was playing back I added a 5th input/channel to the setup and it could be heard through the Main Outs (not the headphones for some reason). All DSP is vailable as usual on the new input.

             

            So in your case it seems you can make a recording of only the instruments/voices for the band members that will NOT be present at the gig, and then during the gig you can play that recording back while adding the present band members to the mix.

             

            There may be some confusion regarding the 'Setups' - and I mean the M20d technical term for setups. I think you will need to create a setup for the entire band - with all planned inputs defined. Then, make your recording of only the desired channels/tracks by muting the others. An ewmpty audio file will be created for the muted channesl, and this empty file will be played back. However, when your real instruments are played during the gig they will be heard over the empty backing track.

        • ArneLine6 Line 6 Support
          ArneLine6
          172 posts since
          Mar 14, 2012
          Currently Being Moderated
          Mar 14, 2013 1:17 PM (in response to silverhead)
          Re: Question on the multitrack.

          Since firmware 1.10 the multitrack recorder does play files that come from other sources. As long as they are 24bit/ 48kHz mono files the multitrack recorder should play these files.

          • rew432 Just Startin'
            rew432
            6 posts since
            Mar 10, 2013
            Currently Being Moderated
            Mar 14, 2013 7:55 PM (in response to ArneLine6)
            Re: Question on the multitrack.

            Thank you very much for your answers. Today, I'll buy it, because I think this is exactly what I need! L 6 link does not work like a normal digital output?

            • silverhead Expert Line 6 User
              silverhead
              9,592 posts since
              Apr 1, 2009
              Currently Being Moderated
              Mar 15, 2013 7:07 AM (in response to rew432)
              Re: Question on the multitrack.

              No - it does not. L6 LINK is a Line 6 proprietary protocol. It carries command & control information as well as audio. It will not be compatible with any other  connection.

            • mishulix Just Startin'
              mishulix
              16 posts since
              Feb 9, 2013
              Currently Being Moderated
              Mar 15, 2013 11:30 AM (in response to rew432)
              Re: Question on the multitrack.

              I know it involves more work but. Why dont you mixdown your recordings the way you like with the missing bandmember and copy the stereo mixdown tracks in a different folder named "missing drummer" for example. And then play back the tracks when needed directly from the internal player. I would find that way more desirable instead of going in the recordings and doing that extra work with multitracks. I know you lose the channel mixing of e tracks missing, but if you make a proper mixdown, you would not need further tweaking of those individual tracks.

              • rew432 Just Startin'
                rew432
                6 posts since
                Mar 10, 2013
                Currently Being Moderated
                Mar 15, 2013 3:05 PM (in response to mishulix)
                Re: Question on the multitrack.

                I'm doing well now. But it is very uncomfortable. Can not edit the mix, the master can not put dynamic plugins (Pro TOOLS) otherwise live instruments are bad mix. So it is possible of course, but I do not like, I can not edit. Various concerts and different rooms.

                   I just bought a mixer. I hope it lived up to my expectations. I think I was right

                • mishulix Just Startin'
                  mishulix
                  16 posts since
                  Feb 9, 2013
                  Currently Being Moderated
                  Mar 17, 2013 8:12 AM (in response to rew432)
                  Re: Question on the multitrack.

                  I was thinking you download the tracks in your DAW of choice and mix them down there with software VST plugins you like. Then mixdown in computer and export waves for the stereo player in the mixer. A good mix with good effects is almost like a CD, it should play with minimal tweaking everywhere. I know because I use backing tracks like that for over 3 years and until now no complains were heard.

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