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1691 Views 6 Replies Latest reply: Jul 12, 2009 6:30 PM by shockwave199 RSS
scottpcollins Just Startin'
scottpcollins
66 posts since
Dec 26, 2006
Currently Being Moderated

Jul 8, 2009 10:14 AM

Recording tip with The VAX AC700

Hello all,

 

While waiting for my vax AC700 to ship, I found this tip from Paul White online which I thought was pretty cool:  (Emphasis added is mine)

 

"When I first plugged the Variax Acoustic into my studio monitoring system and played, I was somewhat disappointed, as I thought the sound was rather hard and unyielding, almost like a guitar that had been miked far too close or had been recorded using a contact mic on the body. However, the direct sound from the strings can be confusing when heard in conjunction with the modelled sound, so I recorded a few bars of guitar using each of the classic acoustic sounds and then listened to them played back without me twanging along. The impression was slightly better, but not much. Then it occurred to me that the modelling didn't include any room ambience, so what I was hearing was more like an acoustic guitar recorded in an anechoic chamber, so I patched in Emagic Space Designer and added some natural room ambience. Immediately the result improved significantly, though I still got the impression that the dynamics of the instrument weren't quite right and the sustain characteristics didn't match the real thing. What's more, adding more Variax compression didn't improve the sound in the way I expected it to.

 

As an experiment, I turned off the Variax compressor, and instead used Logic's own plug-in compressor with an attack time of 3ms and with Peak rather than RMS sensing. No more than 6dB gain reduction was applied on signal peaks. The improvement this time was very noticeable, with the sustain improving and the sound becoming more even and less honky — ever since hearing the banjo preset, I felt I could hear a hint of banjo in all the other presets too! Switching back to the Variax compressor confirmed that I couldn't achieve the same result using that. Although this test was very subjective, I couldn't help feel that the raw Variax sounds were rather harsh without the Emagic compressor."

 

Full review is here:  http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep04/articles/line6variax.htm (It's from 9/04 so it doesn't talk about workbench at all - still a pretty positive review overall).

 

Anyone else ever try this?  I might give it a shot with my 300 but I think the modelled sounds are substantially different than the 700.

 

I posted this on the community recording page but there doesn't seem to be much traffic there so I thought I'd try here.

  • shockwave199 Just Startin'
    shockwave199
    171 posts since
    Apr 10, 2009
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 8, 2009 5:53 PM (in response to scottpcollins)
    Re: Recording tip with The VAX AC700

    I just did acoustic tracks with my 600. I tried going through a podxtl because I like that combo for stage- very clean and good sounding. But I didn't like it for recording. I didn't even try it with workbench in line, or gear box for that matter. No need as far as I could see. I simply went straight to the board via XLR from the XPS to power the guitar. Perfect. No compression, no nothing. The tone dial actually gave a nice array of mic positions. For both guitars, the Martin D28 and Gibson J-200, the best position was full treble boost, which on the acoustics is a mic position set the furthest away giving some room in the sound. It was approximate to where I would typically position a mic on a real acoustic for strum tracks. Adding some quality plugins- for me Waves- gave it the sound I was looking for in the context of the mix, which was a little more ambiance and wee bit of compression. So yes I agree- it sounds best to me recording the acoustic guitar straight in with nothing else in the way, very much the same as you would with a real acoustic. I don't know if the AC700 has different or improved sounds from the 600, but this is my preference with the 600.

     

    Btw- re-reading your post, where did variax compression come from? Is it something you can turn on or off on the AC700 itself? Or is it supplied by gearbox? The only way I see to apply 'variax' compression is via gearbox or a pod.

     

    Dan

    • shockwave199 Just Startin'
      shockwave199
      171 posts since
      Apr 10, 2009
      Currently Being Moderated
      Jul 8, 2009 6:03 PM (in response to shockwave199)
      Re: Recording tip with The VAX AC700

      Oh ok, I read the article. I didn't know the AC700 has a compression slider. I might use that in some instances, but mostly not- at least for recording. I certainly don't miss that option on the 600 electric.

       

      Dan

      • scottpcollins Just Startin'
        scottpcollins
        66 posts since
        Dec 26, 2006
        Currently Being Moderated
        Jul 8, 2009 11:29 PM (in response to shockwave199)
        Re: Recording tip with The VAX AC700

        Yeah, the review makes it seem like the compression slider might cut it live but not on a recording.

         

        Out of curiousity, what Waves plug ins did you use?

         

        Thanks for responding!

        • shockwave199 Just Startin'
          shockwave199
          171 posts since
          Apr 10, 2009
          Currently Being Moderated
          Jul 9, 2009 12:34 AM (in response to scottpcollins)
          Re: Recording tip with The VAX AC700

          I'll be darned. Looking at this working mix I have going, I haven't used Waves at all on the acoustics. If I had I would usually try the true verb and ren compressor. But on this at the moment, I'm using UAD-1 Pultec for eq, LA2A for some compression, and a great verb plugin called Spazio. Whatever makes it work. I use Reaper as my DAW and the native plugins in there are great too. In fact, I highly recommend Reaper. It's a very inexpensive but powerful DAW. 60 bucks is very reasonable for what you get.

           

          Dan

          • scottpcollins Just Startin'
            scottpcollins
            66 posts since
            Dec 26, 2006
            Currently Being Moderated
            Jul 9, 2009 8:36 AM (in response to shockwave199)
            Re: Recording tip with The VAX AC700

            Hey Dan,

             

            I actually got a killer deal on Logic and was able to score it w. a deep educational discount for $150.  So I use that.

             

            Out of curiousity - can you share your Eq or compression settings?

             

            Thanks again!

            • shockwave199 Just Startin'
              shockwave199
              171 posts since
              Apr 10, 2009
              Currently Being Moderated
              Jul 12, 2009 6:30 PM (in response to scottpcollins)
              Re: Recording tip with The VAX AC700

              It's not worth sharing exact eq and compression settings because they are so dependent on the mix itself. Suffice to say I tend to eq a bit out of the low end sometimes to make the guitar fit better, and sometimes I boost the high end to hear more of the upper string harmonics and pick interaction. Also, my observation is the thickness of the pick matters big time when it comes to the acoustic guitars- all the guitars really. But the right pick [or just finger picking] is as important a consideration as it would be for a real acoustic instrument. As for compression, I just use a wee bit to give the guitar a warmer slant when needed, or to tame some transients from strumming when necessarry. My objective when recording variax acoustic is to make it clean and uncompressed, working the tone dial to get an appropriate mic position for the track at hand. Sometimes as the mix progresses though, it needs some other things to help it along. Good luck with it. Logic is a great daw and I'm sure you'll do well.

               

              Dan

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