Nov 11, 2009 8:12 AM
Recording Cover Songs
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I've never recorded a cover song before, but I was sort of kicking around the idea of doing one or two just for fun. My question is: If I do this, would I be able to post them online just for someone to listen to? I do know that if I tried to sell them, I'd really get into some deep doo-doo for that. But is it illegal to post them online just so others can listen to them?
Great idea! There are plenty of places to post your tunes. www.soundclick.com , www.myspace.com and others.
It's not illegal unless you are making money from the tunes.
Go, Doc, Go!
DarkZenGuitar wrote:
Great idea! There are plenty of places to post your tunes. www.soundclick.com , www.myspace.com and others.
It's not illegal unless you are making money from the tunes.
Go, Doc, Go!
I would be surprised if that were actually the case. I would definately read the fine print of any site that you might post these tunes on--i'm sure that they have major CYA clauses in them making the poster responsible for the shared content. Even if you aren't making money you could still be costing an artist money by offering a free alternative. I don't even think that distributing tabs or sheet music of songs is legal without permission--this is why tab sites are hosted in other countries. All that you have going for you is saturation. There is so much rogue content out there that you stand a pretty good chance of slipping under the radar--how many copyrighted images have you seen being used as avatars? Doc--I'm going to go ahead and assume that you drew your little Wu character by yourself. are they going to bust everyone of those guys? notice that my avatar is one that was made freely available for use on the Line6 users forum. ![]()
what is the emoticon for paranoid?
Thanks, pbear.
The legal system nowadays is a real buzz kill sometimes. But I guess they have their reasons, which I try very hard to respect.
What I was thinking about doing was maybe covering a couple of old Yardbirds tunes; ones that I listened to way back when I was just a kid in Middle School. Three of my favorite guitarists originally came from the Yardbirds: Eric Clapton, Jeff Beck, and Jimmy Page. I thought that covering their songs might be a lot of fun to do and I could sort of put my own spin to the songs. Also, it's kind of my way of me honoring one of the bands from the 60's that both inspired me and made me happy way back when I was just a young pup.
And (oops!) my new avatar actually is an Internet screen capture that I'd photoshopped a little bit. I don't even remember which web site I found it on. But I thought that it looked like an old guy having fun and therefore might be a fitting avatar for me. It's actually a pretty terrible drawing, come to think of it, which is why I photoshopped it a little. So if worse comes to worse, I could probably sketch something myself that would look at least that good. LOL!
Hmmm... You know what? That's actually a pretty good idea. I could hand sketch sort of a self-portrait or something, scan it into a file, and then color it up a little in Photoshop. ![]()
DoctorWu wrote:
Thanks, pbear.
The legal system nowadays is a real buzz kill sometimes. But I guess they have their reasons, which I try very hard to respect.
What I was thinking about doing was maybe covering a couple of old Yardbirds tunes; ones that I listened to way back when I was just a kid in Middle School. Three of my favorite guitarists originally came from the Yardbirds: Eric Clapton, Jeff Beck, and Jimmy Page. I thought that covering their songs might be a lot of fun to do and I could sort of put my own spin to the songs. Also, it's kind of my way of me honoring one of the bands from the 60's that both inspired me and made me happy way back when I was just a young pup.
And (oops!) my new avatar actually is an Internet screen capture that I'd photoshopped a little bit. I don't even remember which web site I found it on. But I thought that it looked like an old guy having fun and therefore might be a fitting avatar for me. It's actually a pretty terrible drawing, come to think of it, which is why I photoshopped it a little. So if worse comes to worse, I could probably sketch something myself that would look at least that good. LOL!
Hmmm... You know what? That's actually a pretty good idea. I could hand sketch sort of a self-portrait or something, scan it into a file, and then color it up a little in Photoshop.
see, copyright laws enhance creativity--they don't squash it. ![]()
for the Yardbird tunes you could do what Line6 and others do which is to record a song "in the style of" "in the manner of" "inspired by" the Yardbirds. i honestly don't know how different it has to be to keep you out of Vanilla Ice territory.
posted or not i think it would be great fun to have in your cd player for the morning drive to work. it might just inspire you to work harder. that just might get you the raise that you need to pay the royalties that would allow you to post your covers online. again, copyright laws make for a more productive and wonderful world.
pbear5 wrote:
see, copyright laws enhance creativity--they don't squash it.
...again, copyright laws make for a more productive and wonderful world.
Then why don't the same rules apply to patents, which only last 20 yrs? Is it that people who develop life saving technologies, medicines, and gadgets are not as useful to society? Why aren't they? Secondly, had copyrights been around in the times of Bach, Brahms, and Beethoven - do you believe that music would have advanced very far?
I agree that some limited protection is needed, but I think the 20yr rule should be universally applied.
Matt - posting on a private site would still be against the law, but I don't see it could be policed, so that's not a bad idea.
All - Are any of you in cover bands affected by ASCAP monitoring of bars in which you play? In St Louis, an increasing number of bar owners have stopped booking cover bands so that they won't have to pay very large ASCAP fees, and they actually post "No covers allowed" signs prominently in the bar, and make it part of the booking contract.
nuser101 wrote:
All - Are any of you in cover bands affected by ASCAP monitoring of bars in which you play? In St Louis, an increasing number of bar owners have stopped booking cover bands so that they won't have to pay very large ASCAP fees, and they actually post "No covers allowed" signs prominently in the bar, and make it part of the booking contract.
Wow! I did not know that. My, my how things have changed since I was in a band. Back in those days, people expected you to learn cover songs and would even go up to the stage to make requests. And whenever we'd announce "We're going to play one of our own songs," we'd almost get booed off the stage, LOL.
I really wish that it had been the other way around way back then. Because we (my band) never really liked doing cover songs, and we always had tons of our own material. Nowadays, everything I play is my own stuff. I don't even remember how to play any cover songs anymore. Those, Yardbirds songs I was talking about - I'll have to learn them first; which I'm sure is not going to be any big deal at all.
Nurser101: i forgot to hit the sarcasm button. as somebody who has and has some utility patents pending i'm all for extending the life of them. i'm not sure about the 20yr limit you are referring to, i know that my company had to shell out some money for the "maintenance" of one of my patents--i believe there is a schedule that allows you to extend protection but it's not a guaranteed 20 years and it's certainly not free. as far as copyrights go i was under the impression that they did have to be renewed at certain intervals as well. if the copyrights aren't renewed the subject of the copyright falls to the public domain and can be used by anyone for anything. i guess that, in both cases, the idea is that if the product still means something to you then you can file an extension and maintain protection. otherwise the idea, design, song, etc. is made available for others to use, expand on, rip.
i think the big push on copyrighted material comes from the lawyers who figured out that artists very often make more money after they are dead. i saw an interesting show--probably 60-minutes--on one of the drivers behind the memorabilia licensing phenomena--the agent for dead Monroe, dead Elvis, dead Dean. interesting stuff. i don't know that i agree with any of it but i suppose i may have voted for the people responsible for making the laws.
pbear5 wrote:
Nurser101: i forgot to hit the sarcasm button. as somebody who has and has some utility patents pending i'm all for extending the life of them. i'm not sure about the 20yr limit you are referring to, i know that my company had to shell out some money for the "maintenance" of one of my patents--i believe there is a schedule that allows you to extend protection but it's not a guaranteed 20 years and it's certainly not free. as far as copyrights go i was under the impression that they did have to be renewed at certain intervals as well.
You may not renew a patent beyond 20 years. The irony of it is that you have to pay maintenance fees at regular intervals during that twenty years (I am the author of 18 US patents).
My understanding of copyright law is that, once the copyright is registered, you're done. Under current law a copyright lasts the duration of the copyright holder's lifetime, plus 70 years.
Sorry I missed the sarcasm. I usually pick up on that pretty well, but this subject irritates me so much that I stop thinking and my knee jerks.
nuser101 wrote:
All - Are any of you in cover bands affected by ASCAP monitoring of bars in which you play? In St Louis, an increasing number of bar owners have stopped booking cover bands so that they won't have to pay very large ASCAP fees, and they actually post "No covers allowed" signs prominently in the bar, and make it part of the booking contract.
If clubs around here started doing that, they'd very quickly lose a lot of money. Nobody around here is willing to pay cover charges to come hear an original band unless they are very well known. Or have a good number of covers that they also play, having built a following and paid their dues. All-original music in our area is consigned to kiddie clubs that book 5 and 6 bands a night for no pay. Or worse, they pay to play and end up losing money on the deal. Can't say for sure that the bars pay the ASCAP fees, but they must. The big acts in our circuit are predominantly cover bands, and they have quite a following. The club owners know this.
No, what our big problem around here is that in one county there is an ordinance regarding "cabaret" licenses. There shall be no dancing if you don't have one. This is in VA, believe it or not. Not Kansas or wherever they filmed Footloose. Bands can play. But nobody is allowed to dance, including the band, in one of these venues that hasn't paid for the license. Guess what happened? Nobody goes to those clubs anymore.
As a side note, on the pay-to-play front, I just gotta shake my head in disbelief. I can't tell you how many times someone has come up to me at a show during a break and said "you guys gotta play at (really cool big venue with pro sound, lights and huge stage where you sell tickets to play)". And my response is...NO. Why on Earth would I bust my hump selling tickets for the possibility of breaking even when I can go out and get good money at clubs where owners are willing to pay top dollar for a good cover band?
I can see it now....me in jail, the big convict cellmate dude asking me what I'm in for...and me trying to answer real tough-like...
"..well, see..I was playing guitar at this club, and I accidentally forgot and started dancing....now gimme a smoke, biatch!" ![]()
If clubs around here started doing that, they'd very quickly lose a lot of money.
That's what I'd have thought - but here's the way one of the larger venues in town is handling that.
http://www.thelibrarystl.com/contact.htm
There are a number of rather large bars using this approach ie - one band for each set (that way a band doesn't have to have a lot of originals), and each band is responsible for a percentage of the crowd, or they don't come back. At the end of the evening, all bands share equally in the cover charge (which is pretty high for local orginal acts). The idea seems to be that if a band has enough friends, those friends will pay to drink while the band plays.
I have a hard time believing this model will survive, but there are four or five bars here that have been doing this for about a year now. The one cited in the link I provided is one of the larger venues in town and is doing well right now. However, it is old and new (it's an old venue that rises from the ashes every few years, is enormously popular, then fizzles and shuts its doors until a new owner comes along. It's been running like that ever since I moved here in 1978).
Many, many thanks to all that replied. This is all very interesting stuff and much of it I was not at all aware of. I guess that's what I get for dropping out of the music scene for so many years, LOL!
So from what I've gathered here, the answer would be "No, it's not be a good idea to post a cover song online somewhere."
Well, I suppose that if that's the worse thing that ever happened to me, then I'm probably doing pretty good in life. ![]()
pbear5 wrote:
Doc--I'm going to go ahead and assume that you drew your little Wu character by yourself. are they going to bust everyone of those guys? notice that my avatar is one that was made freely available for use on the Line6 users forum.what is the emoticon for paranoid?
OK, my avatar is now free from all copyright paranoia. I hand sketched my new avatar from a photo my wife had taken of me last summer. I scanned it, colorized it in Photoshop, and voila! New avatar! It looks like a sketch of a homeless person, LOL! ![]()
Having personally experienced the bureaucracy of the Harry Fox Agency, I can assure you that even simple playback of a covertune, whether in a bar, or on your website, technically requires a mechanical use license, and is illegal otherwise.
I tried to post our band's versions of "Never Been Any Reason" and "Workin for the Weekend". HFA owns both, and would not let us do it without a royalty agreement that covered number of hits in the case of streaming audio, and number of downloads in the case of stored audio. It doesn't matter whether you sell, or make money, or not.
In theory, you can legally post 10% or 30 seconds (whichever is less) of a song without reimbursement, but that "fair use" provision is not a guarantee. It just means you have a presentable defense when and if sued. Despite that defense, the judge could still technically rule in favor of the copyright holder. It's as unfair a civil law as you can imagine.
IMO, copyrights should expire after 20 years, just like patents do, but that's never gonna happen. It sickens me that Lars Ulrik and Madonna can pass on said "rights" to their heirs, whereas the inventors of life saving technology cannot. If you wonder why productivity in the US is going down, look at what we think merits monetary reward.
It is true that bands break the law, anyway, and post covers on their websites and Soundclick, but, if copyright holders decide that they want their piece of that, they'll get it. It's like Weird Al says:
Don't go stealing songs from artists just like me -
How else could I afford another solid gold humvee
or diamond studded swimming pools, these things don't grow on trees,
So, all I'm asking is everybody please - Don't download this song.
(Or in this case, cover it).
I would suggest signing up for a free account at www.box.net
You can post songs there, but they are only available to people that have the link to your file. You can send the link to any of your friends or post it here and we could all go listen, but it isn't on a site like MySpace where someone could just stumble on to it, so I doubt that you would ever have any legal troubles from posting it there.
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