Jun 30, 2010 7:26 AM
Ongoing LD/HD400 power output question
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This is the third time of posting because my question keeps getting closed before it is answered properly.....
See: http://line6.com/community/thread/37943
The LowDown Pilots Guide states on page 8:
"19. Extension Speaker Output (LD400Pro only) Only use an 8 Ohm Speaker cabinet when using the Extension Speaker Output".
This in parallel with the internal 4ohm load would give a total impedance of 2.7ohms.
However, the answer to this question states that the minimum permissible load is 4 Ohms: http://line6.com/community/thread/25918
"You will need to either have two 8 ohm cabinets or one cabinet with a 4 ohm load. Now if you do not play so loud that you need the total power of the head, you can get an 8 ohm cabinet for now and if you start playing more/larger rooms that required more sound, get another 8 ohm cabinet which will unlock the rest of the power available to you. I use 8 ohm cabinets, I have 2, 1-15" cabs and 1, 2x10" cab. I can only use 2 of the 3 on the HD-400 at any given time as they are all 8 ohm and hooking up three would put too low a load on the head",
I hope you can now see where my confusion arises from?
Dave,
What's you desired set up here?
The LD400 Pro (combo) can only be connected to one (1) speaker cabinet rated at 8ohms
The LD 400HD and 750HD can be connected to either one (1) 4 ohm speaker cab in either output or two (2) 8ohm cabinets.
So, what kind of hookup are you looking for?
Line6Miller
I have watched, in kind of amazement, at how this thread has gone back and forth. My interest is that my offered answer of me being able to only use 2 of my 3 cabinets keeps getting thrown back and forth and it seems that the parties... Dave and Line 6, keep approaching the issues from different sides and never achieve a "meeting of the minds". I'm certainly no god, but lets see if we can get to the bottom of the issue here....
As I have only read the LD manual (in regards to the LD-400) but own an LD-150 and a HD-400, I think I have a fairly good understanding of how they work.
The first issue is determining the power output of the LD-400, which when presented with a total 4 ohm load, should be 400 watts of output power.
Second if the internal speakers in the amp, rated to a 4 ohm load, there would be no ability to hang an external cabinet off the LD-400 as the total load would be represented by the speakers in the LD-400 unit.
If I have to take a guess, the speakers in the LD-400, if wired in parallel are 16 ohm speakers presenting an 8 ohm load to the LD-400.
Being that, hopefully I am still on a roll here, the LD-400 is only capable oif delivering around 275 watts (give or take) with only the interal speakers.
Now if you connect an 8 ohm, external load (extra cabinet) you will now load-down the amp to its maximum effeciency delivering a maximum of 400 watts to the internal speakers AND the external cabinet. Meaning an external cabinet (of 8 ohms) MUST be connected for the amp to deliver FULL POWER !!
HOWEVER, if Line 6 is using a "switching" jack for the external (extension) cabinet and a resister pack, of 8 OHM value, then the amp *could* deliver the 400 watts to the internal speakers and when an external cabinet is connected, the resister pack would be taken out of the curcuit, allowing the external cabinet to perform the roll of the resister pack with additional speakers, thereby allowing the FULL 400 WATTS to be delivered with OR without the extension cabinet. Leaving the only remining question that I cannot verify, because I DO NOT have an LD-400... Line 6... are you doing something along this line, or does my previous description apply... and that is something for Line 6 to answer...
Keith,
Thanks for your comments – I think you can see where I’m coming from.
You can see the ambiguity and have constructed a scenario to explain it:
HOWEVER, if Line 6 is using a "switching" jack for the external (extension) cabinet and a resister pack, of 8 OHM value, then the amp *could* deliver the 400 watts to the internal speakers and when an external cabinet is connected, the resister pack would be taken out of the curcuit, allowing the external cabinet to perform the roll of the resister pack with additional speakers, thereby allowing the FULL 400 WATTS to be delivered with OR without the extension cabinet. Leaving the only remining question that I cannot verify, because I DO NOT have an LD-400... Line 6... are you doing something along this line, or does my previous description apply... and that is something for Line 6 to answer...
However, there is a flaw in your theory: If an 8 ohm “resistor pack” was used, this would simply mean that half the power would be dissipated as heat in the resistor (instead of in the external speaker) and the other half would drive the internal speakers. Therefore, only 200 watts of sound would be delivered.
At this stage, I don’t actually have a “desired set up”.
I am considering buying an LD400 but before I do, I want to be clear on the specifications. I read the FAQs and noticed ambiguities and contradictions which I have tried to get clarified, so far without success.
You state that the minimum load that can be connected to the amplifier is 4 ohms.
See: http://line6.com/community/thread/32126
The answer from Line6Andy, to my previous question states:
Q: Does the LD400 put out the full 400 watts to its 2 X 10" speakers?
A: yes because we chose speakers that create a 4 ohm load internally.
Therefore, if an external 8 ohm speaker is connected in parallel, the resulting load will be 2.7 ohms which is less than the permitted minimum!
Rich here. Product Manager for the LowDown series.
We make the minimum load 4 on the heads to be safe and stay completely away from 2 ohms where the amp can over heat and shut down. But even then, it only blinks out for a moment. It doesn't hurt the amp.
So with the LD400 it goes down to 2.6666 and has no problem hanging out there. It gives you about 630 watts ish. It doesn't go into thermal shut down. But if you put a 4 ohm speaker on the extra jack then you would drop to 2 ohms and run into the thermal shut down.
So technically, you could hook a 4 ohm and 8 ohm speaker to the heads and have no problem. But there are not many 4 ohm only cabs that are not 8x10 cabs. So we just keep people in the safe zone.
Hope this helps.
Rich, based on your answer, rather than following the label on the product and the instructions in the manual, you have successfully told me why I wasted money buying new cabinets to accomodate the 4 ohm load instructions when I could have put that money to better use and continued using my three (3) original 8 ohm cabinets with the HD-400 like I had with my prior amp head.
At some point you put together definitive instructions that people either follow or they don't. You cannot protect everyone from themselves, but you sure can disappoint responsible people who can read and follow instructions.
If this is the "complete" and "correct" answer, much appreciated, for future use purposes, only wish it had been the ONLY answer given !!!!
Regards,
Keith
An LD-150/HD-400 user
As opposed to being an abuser !!
Rich,
Thanks for your explanation – that has cleared up my query.
However, I do think some of the replies given to other questions on this topic are a bit ambiguous and it could have all been avoided if this information was included in the product specification. In fact, I can’t find ANY specifications – all I found to download was the “Pilots Manual” which has no specifications at all, not even weight or dimensions………..
So, in order to take full advantage of the power available from the LD400 Pro, an external cab is needed. I would probably choose to match it with a 1 X 15. As you have explained this would need to be 8 ohms and I guess a power rating of 250W would be OK as it will only be dissipating one third of the amp’s power.
What a shame that Line6 don’t make such a matching extension cab for the LD400 Pro. Obviously any suitable cab could be used but this would not be as good as having something from the same manufacturer, with the same styling and the same dimensions so that it would stack nicely under the LD400 Pro.
Something for the Product Manager to think about perhaps……………………?
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