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11566 Views 55 Replies Latest reply: Aug 16, 2012 12:33 PM by swickpro RSS
swickpro Just Startin' 87 posts since
Apr 18, 2010
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Jul 17, 2010 8:11 AM

M13 designers - What's next?

M13/Line 6 insiders... are there any tasty hints about upcoming updates or product enhancements on the horizon that you can share with us?  PA-leeeeze??

    • parirami Just Startin' 72 posts since
      Dec 14, 2009
      Currently Being Moderated
      Jul 22, 2010 10:29 AM (in response to swickpro)
      Re: M13 designers - What's next?

      excellent and useful feature concepts! the miniscene will be very useful for some songs - it can be one of the modes available so you have scene mode, latch mode and mini scene mode!

       

      One other thing is a blank pedal or a spacer - i remember this one from some old thread for easy layouts... it can even double as a bypass-all switch when used in scene mode so its useful for non-latch users.

  • Ultron Just Startin' 6 posts since
    Jul 24, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 4, 2010 7:02 AM (in response to swickpro)
    Re: M13 designers - What's next?

    Yes, very curious indeed....and I'm a bit surprised how quiet L6 has been with any update news. I hope the device isn't forgetten in the blitz of the HD series.

     

    I have an M13, and my biggest gripes about it (besides the ridiculous power supply) are some of the weaker ODs, and the fact that the signal is only  instrument level.  My RM100 runs only at line level (a gripe I have with Mr. Egnater) and it would be cool if a future update by L6 could allow the signal to be switched to either line or instrument.  Any L6 engineers out there to comment?

  • Ultron Just Startin' 6 posts since
    Jul 24, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 18, 2010 11:43 AM (in response to swickpro)
    Re: M13 designers - What's next?

    MOAR BUMPS

  • ricstudioc Just Startin' 12 posts since
    Dec 4, 2010
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    Dec 5, 2010 9:42 AM (in response to swickpro)
    Re: M13 designers - What's next?

    Bumpity bump.  Started my own thread on one of these issues, but I'm throwing down with this one - good ideas here.

  • johnnyayyy Iknowathingortwo 1,170 posts since
    Feb 24, 2010
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 5, 2010 12:26 PM (in response to swickpro)
    Re: M13 designers - What's next?

    swickpro wrote:

     

    M13/Line 6 insiders... are there any tasty hints about upcoming updates or product enhancements on the horizon that you can share with us?  PA-leeeeze??

    I am no insider, but... based on my experience with Line 6 products in the past and Line 6's current competing product offerings I would bet M13 will not be improved in the future, more likely they will have a new product that does more for half the price.

     

    Currently it looks like the HD500 has all of the effects from the M13 and does tons of other cool tricks the M13 cannot, yet the HD500 is selling for the same price as the M13. This makes the M13 a likely candidate for retirement in my estimation.

     

    If sales of the M13 make it profitable to keep around of course Line 6 will probably keep turning them out, but with the HD500 on the market I would expect M13 sales to fall drastically.

      • ruzz311 Just Startin' 6 posts since
        May 27, 2010
        Currently Being Moderated
        Dec 6, 2010 7:54 AM (in response to swickpro)
        Re: M13 designers - What's next?

        Here, here!

         

        I turned to line6 for the m13 alone - I've never liked the pods no matter how popular they might be.  However johnnyayyy has a point however bleek it might be(thanks debbie downer).  Its just a fact of software/hardware development.

         

      • johnnyayyy Iknowathingortwo 1,170 posts since
        Feb 24, 2010
        Currently Being Moderated
        Dec 6, 2010 10:12 AM (in response to swickpro)
        Re: M13 designers - What's next?

        swickpro wrote:

         

        I think the M13 is wholly unique and continues to stand strong on it's own for the very reason that it's NOT a POD.  The M13 is basically a no-bones collection of great stomp box effects with none of the other complications and cab modeling goo.  I've owned 3 POD versions in the past, but none were as laid out as simply or as flexible to use as the M13-not to mention the over-processed, mushy POD sound.  I've already got the greatest pedals and the best amp (my opinion).  I'm not going to buy yet another one just because it's got the now, ever-popular "HD" printed on it, thanks.  Now, those HD sunglasses I've been seeing on late night TV--those I've gotta have!

        It would be a shame for Line 6 to discontinue the only "purist" multi-effect product they have that supports guitarists who don't prefer to have everything modeled for them.

        After sleeping on it I think there will still have to be a non-Pod Line 6 multi fx pedal option in the future - I was thinking it is very easy to set up all of your patches/scenes on the HD with no amp model/cab etc. to exactly equal the perfomance of the M13 (there will be no "over-processed" sound with the amps/cabs turned off and the effect will be exactly the same quality and function as M13) but I agree adjusting on the fly in a live situation will be much more difficult or at least more tedious and time consuming with the HD than it is on the M series.

         

        I understand your preference of the simplicity of the M13, the thing that makes it hard to see many people still buying them is the price as compared to the HD.

         

        If the price on the M13 were lowered a bit I could see it still being a viable product but for the most part anyone buying one now would seem to be paying the same price but getting waaaaayyyyy less for their money.

         

        Like I said, I am not an insider and I am just making semi-educated guesses about the future based on what I have seen in the past with the other Line 6 products I have purchased (Vetta II, Pod I, Pod xt, Variax) - the products are usually around a couple of years with updates/improvements added then something much improved is introduced and the old product is no longer supported. That said he M13 could very well be the first exception for Line 6 and permanently remain their flagship fx only modeler, continuing to sell like hotcakes til the end of time for all any of us know.

         

        M13 HAS been around for the usual amount of time Line 6 normally waits before they stop adding updates to a product and develop/introduce its replacement, so I would expect to see a successor in the next year or so.

          • johnnyayyy Iknowathingortwo 1,170 posts since
            Feb 24, 2010
            Currently Being Moderated
            Dec 6, 2010 9:19 PM (in response to swickpro)
            Re: M13 designers - What's next?

            swickpro wrote:Like the title of the post pleads, it sure would be great to get a word on this either way.  Do we have something to look forward to or not?

            I am pretty sure Line 6's policy is to not comment on future development... did they let everyone know beforehand when the last set of M13 upgrades was coming? I don't have an M13, the  upgrades for the Line 6 products I have purchased have always been announced at the time they were made available as I recall.

             

            You could try posting a question in the support area, they are much more likely to answer you there even if only to say "Line 6 does not comment on future product development, please submit your question in the form of a feature request" or something similar.

      • rmesic Just Startin' 8 posts since
        Apr 4, 2009
        Currently Being Moderated
        Dec 29, 2010 6:00 AM (in response to swickpro)
        Re: M13 designers - What's next?

        Therein lies the rub -

         

        How to make something both super capable and remain "bonehead simple"?

         

        I like the idea of having the out of the box capability bonehead simple, but give me a way to get under the hood.

         

        The one key thing I want from the M13 is a computer interface where I can control or program the presets without squatting on the floor...  and save my libraries...

        • PBGas Just Startin' 2 posts since
          May 4, 2007
          Currently Being Moderated
          Dec 29, 2010 6:55 AM (in response to rmesic)
          Re: M13 designers - What's next?

          rmesic wrote:

           

          Therein lies the rub -

           

          How to make something both super capable and remain "bonehead simple"?

           

          I like the idea of having the out of the box capability bonehead simple, but give me a way to get under the hood.

           

          The one key thing I want from the M13 is a computer interface where I can control or program the presets without squatting on the floor...  and save my libraries...

           

          This is so true.  I mean, really, the one thing they should have put on this is a USB interface.  It would have made life much easier. 

  • PBGas Just Startin' 2 posts since
    May 4, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 6, 2010 4:32 PM (in response to swickpro)
    Re: M13 designers - What's next?

    I really hope they continue with the M13 board.  Basically, as pointed out, its for those that have no need for the modelling amps.  I run mine flawlessly with my Diezel Herbert and it even switches the channels.  It eliminated a whole pile of cabling issues as well as having to run an extra switch to change the amps channels.  It's an amazing device.  I really haven't even tapped into some of the more interesting sounds on it but it is a keeper of a unit.  I also like the ease as to which one can program it.

     

    It would be great for them to pack a few more interesting ideas into it and give the consumer a few more years of product enjoyment instead of shelving support for it after a couple of years.  A happy customer is one that does return. 

  • bionicM5 Just Startin' 16 posts since
    Nov 18, 2010
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 6, 2010 5:09 PM (in response to swickpro)
    Re: M13 designers - What's next?

    Hey!  This can't be the end of the product cycle.  I just got my M13.  And I'm a repeat customer from all the way back to 1997.  So Line6 don't leave me out to dry now.  The M13 is a serious multi effects system.  The marketing speal on it replacing actual pedals is ok but at the end of the day this thing is a contender for rack mount quality effects.   

     

    For product enhancements I'd like to see some serious midi implementation.  I am using an old digitech multieffects board with midi capabilities to fully control the looper and also handle expression pedal duties.  It works but the caveat is that the switches are lousy and the expression pedal is flimsy.  What I'd like to see is more midi explanation in the manual other than a simple appendix.  For example:

     

    Can you send a command to toggle the one expression pedal to have two roles?  Say you want to do some volume swells, you use the expression pedal to increase your delay feedback and then toggle the expression same pedal to then control volume.  That would be useful.

     

    Can the midi expression pedal control volume?  (Yes answering my own question - it can using the volume model in a scene.)  It would be nice if it could be seperate so you don't use up an effect space though...

     

    As a midi controller next I want to turn on whichever combination of 4 effects set as a scene. It'd be really sweet to just program one of the switches on the midi controller to switch the scene and turn on the desired effects within that scene.

  • bionicM5 Just Startin' 16 posts since
    Nov 18, 2010
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 7, 2010 5:46 AM (in response to swickpro)
    Re: M13 designers - What's next?

    Since I am probably the longest Line6 owner around here from the begining let me give some historical perspective on why we are were we are today.

     

    Line6 is what it is today becasue of the internet.  The very first amp release Axsys212 had patch sharing websites spring up.  I had the first site.  Soon they put up their own - and the pod took off.  And then their website quickly became the polished site it is today.  That same amp had midi and midi before most typical guitarists knew how to use midi.  This resulted in their inside support staff fielding countless emails hand holding those of us that were completely lost.  (I have printed emails from 1997 that are very long and well written explanations of midi from Line6)  Then came the forums and discussion boards.  What a great way to easily answer the same question more than once right?  And on these forums you have these experts.  Are they volunteers?  Who knows but what I do know is savvy Line6 embraces BUZZ marketing. 

     

    Now back to the M13...  If the internet didn't exist, if firmware updates were not possible then we'd still buy it off the shelf and use like it is short comings and all.  I'm sure they tell themselves that every day within the walls of Line6.  Especially when us users tick them off.  "Those ungrateful firmware whiners!"  At the same time they have to be grateful for all the beta testing we do and report back to them - ha ha.

     

    Really, if Line6 provides an update it barely effects whether they will sell more M13's.  It does effect that they will have to then spend money out of some budget to develop and then support any new firmware upgrade and its new features.  So if the midi improves (which it should) that will come at a cost to Line6 in support.  The Axsys212 had a cost involved for its one update.  I hate to suggest this - but I would pay for an update.  $20 max.

  • bionicM5 Just Startin' 16 posts since
    Nov 18, 2010
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 29, 2010 5:42 PM (in response to swickpro)
    Re: M13 designers - What's next?

    The one key thing I want from the M13 is a computer interface where I can control or program the presets without squatting on the floor...  and save my libraries...

     

     

    I hate to suggest a workaround since I also want USB and/or computer interface but here is an alternative to squatting on the floor:

     

    Stand

     

    Stand

     

    Stand

    • parirami Just Startin' 72 posts since
      Dec 14, 2009
      Currently Being Moderated
      Dec 30, 2010 7:38 PM (in response to bionicM5)
      Re: M13 designers - What's next?

      I wonder how long this topic will last till the next firmware. there was some discussion before of modeling additional pedals and selling them off ala apple's appstore...cheap and cherry picking enjoyment. Would you guys go for something like that? For 0.99 a pedal i would

  • Donoman Just Startin' 7 posts since
    Jan 16, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 16, 2011 9:39 PM (in response to swickpro)
    Re: M13 designers - What's next?

    Didn't take me long to figure this one out...think of it like the iPod.  Pretty much there will be a 'latest and greatest' coming out every couple of years that is touted better than previous versions with nothing essentially but a new shell.  iPod nanos, phones with new video, iPads and...Line 6. It's called cannibalization of your own market.  From a consumer standpoint, it keeps things fresh.  From a business standpoint, it allows new ideas and growth.  From a fan's view of a certain item, I find it annoying but inderstand it.    For me, I really dig an item and will continue to use it as it came out, and don't really fall for marketing.  M13 is gonna be with me for a looooooong time...

  • Ultron Just Startin' 6 posts since
    Jul 24, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 31, 2011 12:57 PM (in response to swickpro)
    Re: M13 designers - What's next?

    any update on the new firmware released?

    • rmesic Just Startin' 8 posts since
      Apr 4, 2009
      Currently Being Moderated
      Jan 31, 2011 2:05 PM (in response to Ultron)
      Re: M13 designers - What's next?

      Ultron:  I've installed the new firmware, I love having the multiple sets of scenes even though I haven't done much with them yet.  Still need to play around with the new effects but I think they fixed the chorus and I like the one new delay I played with.

       

      That, and now I have a MIDI to USB box so I can play with other computer driven stuff...

       

      I figure that once something cooler and more powerful comes out one of us will start hacking into one of these to turn it into a controller board.  If and when the sounds or sound quality becomes obsolete or if the circuit board winds up letting the magic smoke out, the buttons and LED's will continue to be useful...  I can't tell you how many times the laptop bag held its value longer than the laptop...

       

      Who knows - maybe it will wind up being the home to a cluster of BYOC pedals and boards harvested from old MXR boxes... (that's Build Your Own Clone - google it if you need to...)

       

      Something else to think about -- years ago I bought a long builders box - about 10".  Drilled for a series of footswitches (technically too close together as I had to work not to hit two at once.  The thing that controlled never really came into its own, so the box got repurposed as a 'step controller' for CV...  One momentary switch at the end flip-flopped the ends of the circuit so at 50% it does nothing.  Each of the does the electrical equivalent of bumping the CV pedal up another 15% or so.   That one is gone now, but I'm toying with the idea of building another one...  this time with some relays so that pushing one footswitch "takes over" kinda like the old AM radio buttons... you don't want to add resistance, you want to jump to a setting.  If you have a "dead" M13 box someday, you could make one heck of a step control voltage board...  maybe on three channels.

      • bionicM5 Just Startin' 16 posts since
        Nov 18, 2010
        Currently Being Moderated
        Jan 31, 2011 6:48 PM (in response to rmesic)
        Re: M13 designers - What's next?

        Developers please ignore the post above this one.  That guys ready to make the M13 retro.

         

        Heck, I'm still messing with the delays and have barely moved on to the Looper...this thing is awesome!!!!!!!

         

        edit - looking over the advanced manual it appears this firmware increases the midi functionality.  Or at least the manual revision does...  Either way - thank you Line6!

      • rmesic Just Startin' 8 posts since
        Apr 4, 2009
        Currently Being Moderated
        May 3, 2011 5:53 PM (in response to swickpro)
        Re: M13 designers - What's next?

        Agreed - and since its a lot like the effect version of a softsynth - there's almost no limit to what could be done...

         

        I'd love to see some delayed effect capabilities - Imagine a distortion that instead of switching to fuzz in an instant, it has a parameter you can assign...

        Step on this switch and gradually over the next 3 seconds the fuzz will morph from Fuzz Face to Colorsound...

        I do something like that with the CV pedal for some effects, but it might be a nice effect.

         

         

        I don't recall if I mentioned this earlier - but another LFO on cyclic effects is cool - I used to run a modulated chorus where the speed would slowly sweep from almost too slow to almost too fast and back.  That was pretty useful.

  • Mattidon Just Startin' 17 posts since
    Nov 16, 2009
    Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 10, 2011 12:52 PM (in response to swickpro)
    Re: M13 designers - What's next?

    What a waste that no one from Line6 bothers to join in this fruitfull conversation.....

    • TheRealZap Expert Line 6 User 11,829 posts since
      Dec 22, 2006
      Currently Being Moderated
      Nov 26, 2011 5:12 PM (in response to Mattidon)
      Re: M13 designers - What's next?

      line6 doesn't participate in user groups... only in support groups... and then only post marked as questions within those groups... so unless someone at line6 decides to randomly look for what users want updated... they will never read this... if anyones expectation was otherwise... the expectation is the real issue....

       

      if you want to send line6 your ideas... submit them here...

      http://line6.com/company/contact/productfeedback/

      they will bypass support and go directly to the development team.

  • BOOGIELINE Just Startin' 2 posts since
    Oct 14, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 29, 2011 3:51 PM (in response to swickpro)
    Re: M13 designers - What's next?

    Add indivdual Amp downloads, pick and choose what you like, "trick out " your M13.  Put a small price on it for each one.  We download them our M13's and we're "bad *** "all over again.  Limit them to a few as to not take away from the other products but, to keep user's happy with there purchase.  That's just me, as for Line 6 not reading or coming in the user group......well that's just the right thing to say.  Right?  We are the USER'S not the lookers who saw the their product.  They want to know how we really feel about their products.......you remeber your parents saying how they trust you and as soon as you where gone they went throw your stuff!   Why, because it was their house.....it's ok, I'm a parent now myself.  Some body is peeking.

    • Philcox Just Startin' 6 posts since
      Feb 25, 2010
      Currently Being Moderated
      Nov 29, 2011 4:05 PM (in response to BOOGIELINE)
      Re: M13 designers - What's next?

      Not sure I understand what you're typing here. I traded my M13 in on a pod HD400. I'm very satisfied. How long do you expect line 6 to update m13's software anyway? Over 100 effects aren't enough? Just saying.

        • TheRealZap Expert Line 6 User 11,829 posts since
          Dec 22, 2006
          Currently Being Moderated
          Dec 1, 2011 5:58 AM (in response to swickpro)
          Re: M13 designers - What's next?

          i hear your point... the M13 has a place...

          but make no mistake... it may not be an AMP modeler... but it is modeling effects pedals.

          i'm also 100% certain that line6 knows that the M users aren't particularly the same users that will buy HD's

          they wouldn't be able to sell any M13's if they weren't because they are priced the same as the HD500's

            • TheRealZap Expert Line 6 User 11,829 posts since
              Dec 22, 2006
              Currently Being Moderated
              Dec 1, 2011 4:26 PM (in response to swickpro)
              Re: M13 designers - What's next?

              they are always tight-lipped about whats on the burner....

              but i do believe that the M series is going to be around for a while since they put the effects in the HD units...

              makes sense that any development to come from there would spill back over to the M13...

              you might poke around and see what they are doing with the HD's for a hint.... since i'm sure they won't address it directly.

            • rmesic Just Startin' 8 posts since
              Apr 4, 2009
              Currently Being Moderated
              Dec 2, 2011 8:17 AM (in response to swickpro)
              Re: M13 designers - What's next?

              I think that these modeling platforms will remain viable for quite a while as its just a software update to keep them current - I don't think there is a reason that the M13 couldn't become an amp modeler, either. 

               

              Looking at that new Digitech thing, it just eats an iPad and can control pretty much whatever you can do in software on that device.  Would have been smarter if they just gave a cable to an iPad on a music stand... 

               

              So you gotta figure Line6 is at least as clever as those guys...   Imagine an M14 (M13+ ?) with the switch banks and some onboard processing, but a USB hookup into an Android tablet or whatnot.

               

              Imagine using your tablet as a KAOSS pad controling CV parameters.

               

              Imagine an app dev kit for the M13 so us hacker types can write our own effect algorithms.

               

              Further imagine an expansion to the effects loop already in the M13 where "old school" effects can be controlled / blended via computer control.

               

              Lots of cool stuff on the horizon - in fact, I'm looking forward to checking out that new Bogner joint venture amp...

  • bionicM5 Just Startin' 16 posts since
    Nov 18, 2010
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 7, 2011 9:38 AM (in response to swickpro)
    Re: M13 designers - What's next?

    I can't expect L6 to do squat with this legacy M13.  So why doesn't the user base to make their own firmware if they feel they want to tweak it.  What is better is to find ways to "make" things or life hack things to do what you want.  For example, has anyone used the TouchOSC for Android or ipad work with the M13?

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