Since I appear to have started this little firestorm, let me try to cool things down by explaining myself.

The original fart comment was a failed attempt at humour. My apologies to Mikey1 for that - but I really was only verbally riffing on your 'farting around' comment. The later post was really an attempt to help and to understand. What I really couldn't understand, Mikey1, (and still don't) is how you can express such negative feelings toward any piece of equipment (not Line 6 specific) - saying it is so worthless to you that you no longer use it, and that it has nil resale value because nobody wants it - and yet you place a minimum value on it when you try to sell it. Which is it? Valueless or valuable? That's what I was trying (and am still trying) to understand.

If it's worthless to you, then you have the option to sell it at whatever price you can get - because it is not worthless to a potential buyer. And if it's valuable to you, then please stop confusing the issue by saying it isn't and complaining about it.

mikey1 wrote:

 

The thing that gets me is you don't even understand what I said. The point of my post was not to complain I can't sell it. The fact I can't sell it is merely illustrative of my point. The point being, (this is where you pay attention) NOBODY WANTS IT. Nobody wants it. Nobody wants it. Sure, if I put in for 50 bucks somebody might buy it. The same way my wife buys crap at a garage sale because it's too cheap to pass up. But nobody is saying to themselves, gee, I'd sure like to have me one of them Flextones.

 

My post to Wardick required no response. The experts, hey, that's what they're paid to do. But you, it's just brown nosed pandering. You focus on the one thing you can twist. Like my using the term, "my boy", a common term in literature. You somehow twisted that into what, a racial slur? Is that what you were going for?

 

I take issue with a lot of the things you post but I rarely respond. I usually just chuckle. You amuse me. And I'm serious, you'll get that expert status. Unless my kicking up all this ruckus has jinxed your chances. That would be a shame wouldn't it

 

So are you really telling me you couldn't just give this stuff to a kid just starting out on guitar and he wouldn't love it? I had a Tascam 4-track which cost £600 back in 1984. By the mid-'90s you can imagine the value of such a thing, so I gave it away to some kid just starting out and introduced him to the world of recording and overdubs. No doubt he probably went the computer route shortly after but at least it got him started. Oh, and I didn't go on the Tascam forums and b1tch about how I couldn't resell my 4-track. It did what it did when I needed it to, it's resale value didn't magically devalue its worth to me. No doubt you'll tell me I've missed the point again.

Most tech gear devalues, unless you're very cunning on what you buy. Even then fashion rather than actual musical value can dictate value. Gone on, give to a kid or a charity shop, you might even feel good about yourself.

The experts do not get paid to do anything, so again you're the one with slurs trying to twist it around. The 'brown nose' jibe I won't dignify with a response. Oh, and for the record I'm white so no, that's not why I took offence. Your use of "my boy" was intentionally derogatory and nothing to do with literature. Please.

And yes you amuse me too. Why anyone would spend so much time on a board devoted to kit they hate, do not use and cannot even give away I can't fathom. And don't fret about my status, I won't be an expert any time soon as I think Line 6 prefer people who are a little more neutral than I'm prepared to be.

Silver and I had a mild exchange. A little sarcasm at each others expense. You brought the heavy artillary. He didn't need defending. Our exchange was none of your business. But that's not true is it? It is your business. Between you and Mr Snarkadin, you've attempted to assasinate my character. I'm a venting, penny pinching doooshbag to be pitied. Is that about right? I'm unconcerned. My feelings aren't the least bit hurt and I believe the clever reader understands the narrative so far.

I didn't come here looking for a fight. You guys started it. And you got nasty quickly. I believe it's because that is your function. While the experts may help people, they spend a lot of time putting down the naysayers. Like the white blood cells of the forum. And if you can't beat 'em, you go personal. You attempt to invalidate their view. And you guys will use anything. Their post count, grammar, whatever is handy.

I think you were all hand picked by a very clever company. Not only for your abilities to do this sort of work, but also for your inability to see behind the curtain at what's really going on. Karl and Space were picked because of their expertise and experience, and as an exception to make the argument it's not all fanboys. It's actually brilliant. You get the added benefit of the wannabees fighting the good fight for free. They don't need to delete posts. They have you.

While Line 6 did not become the company I'd hoped they would, I don't hate them. I don't come here to bash Line 6. I come here for the same reason most people frequent a forum. I'm bored. I come here to chat. I come here because you guys say the darndest things. I don't take any of this seriously and neither should you. 

yes i always carry heavy artillery....

like i said i was just calling out a comment i felt was uncalled for....

that was it for me....

you apparently got the message.

Nope, still not getting it. Me and my thick skull. Why is the fact that "Nobody wants it" such a problem to you. That is what I am not getting. Nobody wants it at the price you set, yet you'd rather have it around doing nothing out of principle? There's plenty of tech gear that takes a hit, not just Line 6. I often buy this devalued stuff because it's still good kit, recently I got a Roland SC-880 originally £699 for £60, a Roland RE-3 originally £800 I got for £125 etc. That kit is no less useful than when it was made, it's just people's perception of old digital must be crap, plus the shift to software solutions that has caused this. If you deal in vintage guitars, synths and valve amps you'll get a different story, but again the values are dictated by perception/fashion etc. rather than actual value in a lot of cases. Someone will take it off you, but maybe not at the price you'd like.

I suppose the reason I cannot understand you is this:

"Yes, I place a monetary value my Line 6 gear. Based on some criteria. I  don't need to sell it. I'd like to get x amount of dollars for it."

and

"I paid a lot of money for it, I had to have it repaired, it would be an 800 dollar loss at that price."

which is as opposite a viewpoint to me as you could get. My criteria for buying a piece of kit is will it fulfil my needs and will it do it at a price I think is fair. Not will I lose money on this in 5-10 years' time. At some point I assume your thought process on buying Line 6 was, "This sounds good, that's a fair price, I'll buy it" rather than, "This sounds shite, but I bet I can make some money on it in a few years' time selling it some plonker who doesn't know better".

We both know what you need to be buying to make a decent return and it isn't most digital kit - it just doesn't age well in people's perception (but in my view is still very usable in a lot of cases). I still don't understand the idea of 'taking a loss' on gear that you got use out of.

"Nevermind there was no Tascam forum in the mid '90's. Just sayin......"

Yes I realised that, I was just making a point that I have a life and it doesn't include wasting time with things I no longer like/own/have a use for etc. I suppose for the analogy to be chronologically accurate I should have said I didn't spend my time writing letters to the MD of Tascam asking for my money back because computers had devalued PortaStudios.

A cursory glance at eBay shows a Pod Pro with FloorBoard going for £250 and a Pod Pro on its own for £150:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Line-6-Pod-Pro-and-Floor-Pedal-Control-Board-Guitar-/140570309177?pt=UK_Guitar_Accessories&hash=item20baa4b239

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LINE-6-POD-PRO-/150618477048?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Outboards_Effects_MJ&hash=item23118f91f8

Selling locally always involves it being cheaper, there's one on gumtree for £140. Wouldn't that bit of cash be better than a doorstop?

Polaris20 wrote:

 

Enough is enough already. Jeez.

Yup, you're right, no more from me.

Line6 has an obvious opportunity here - c'mon guys - CAPITALIZE !

While Fractal's equipment is great, it's not the only thing on the market, and as everyone knows, it's a lot harder to stay on top than to challenge the leader. Line6 had the lead and blew it with a weakly positioned product that was (imo) just a re-packaging of the existing POD + expansions product line in a new carriage. Very disappointing.

I still use my X3 Live almost exclusviely for around-home noodling, AND for 95%+ of scratch track recording. Mic'ing is a PITA, and I go direct in USB and DAW and direct out to Genelecs. i've spent 100's of hours dialing in my patches to just where I like them, and this is always my grab 'n go solution.

Where Line6 can really excel is in QA, market presence, forums and patch modelling maturity, and support. Most of all - PRODUCT AVAILABILITY. Ironically all of the things that Fractal is really challenged at. I've tried (unsuccessfully) to buy an AxeFx ultra for going on 2+ years now. They can have the best product in the world, but if you can't get one, who cares?

The sweet spot for amp modellers is the $1000 price point.  - but needs to have all of the bells and whistles that Line6 established as standards with its original POD offerings (dual channel, dual effects chains, direct out, yada-yada).

11-Rack nailed it in terms of pricing and DAW integration, but fell short with amp modeller and effects quality and missed the boat entirely on core standards like dual-channel, stereo, etc., and in the end their product seemed like it was developed to sell more copies of their DAW than it was for serious semi-prosumers and recording junkies. Plus I had to buy an RTAS adapter from fXpansion to boot, which ****** me off - and the DAW SE version sucked balls. I already have hundereds of hours invested in my DAW, so that wasn't going to happen either.

Line6 - listen up: If you want to nail it, re-do the POD X3 Pro, make it look like an 11Rack and get more comptetive in the audio quality department like Fractal while maintaining your normal product features and competitive advantages in this line. The HD500 looks like a re-branded X3 Live/Pro, but isn't worth the additional bucks to justify the price, and as an existing customer there's nothing for me to aspire to in your product lineup that would be compellig enough for me to part with another $500-$1000 or more for what amounts to the same product.

Midi board switching integration would be a great diversification, and an area where you could differentiate easily.

Maybe add in a wireless integration offering to boot?

- you get my point. You're almost there. Stay the course. You have so many advantages that you're letting others capitalize upon. Step up and compete. People will follow, but make sure you know who your target audience is at that price point. It's not the same people who baought your X3 Live/Pro - most of them have graduated and are looking for more powerful and integrated solutions.

Did I mention that I play my X3 Live more than any other amp I own? -probably more like 3:1 or 4:1, actually.

-Chris