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3200 Views 17 Replies Latest reply: Sep 22, 2011 12:34 AM by gregr RSS
sean106ESP Just Startin'
sean106ESP
90 posts since
Aug 29, 2011
Currently Being Moderated

Sep 5, 2011 10:28 AM

Setting up the HD500 with my Mesa Mark V help!

Hey guys still having fun recording and loving the tones. Truly an amazing device and quality tones.

 

So I am ready to take to the next level and use it for rehearsal and gigs with my Mesa Mark V and Diezel 4X12. may sound silly to purists as I am one. But I really wanna see have all those cool FX and use of the Volume/wah pedal/whammy pedal at my feet.

 

So I watched the 4 cable method and got the connectivity down down.

 

My questions relates more towards the Amp modeling and FX.

 

1 Can I not use any Model Head and still use the Mark V channels or does it take over all and default to the clean channel and I must use a model head?

 

2 If I have to use a head model I am assuming I must turn off cab and mic sims?

 

3Switch the back of the HD500 to stomp instead of line?

 

4 If I have to select a model head I am assuming the teadplate would be kinda similar to a boogie tone be it Mark V or Recto of course?

 

5 Any advice on where to put in line the FX? (Like I am assuming reverb, delay et.c go behind the amp.....and things like chorus, phaser, Wah need to go in the front)

 

6 Anything I am missing?

 

Thanks so much in advance guys1

Tags: live, fx, tones, cable, 4, mesa, method, 500, connectivity, mark, v, pod_hd_500
  • gregr Iknowathingortwo
    gregr
    639 posts since
    Oct 26, 2009
    Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 5, 2011 10:47 AM (in response to sean106ESP)
    Re: Setting up the HD500 with my Mesa Mark V help!

    1. You can use the preamp in your Mark V or any amp/preamp model (or pair of models).  You can even use the preamp in your Mark V and any single amp/preamp model at the same time.

     

    2. I would recommend that you disable cabinet modeling (which will also disable microphone/AIR emulation).

     

    3. Yes, stomp is most appropriate, though the FX block allows you to reduce the level being sent.

     

    4. Treadplate is modeled from a Dual Rectifier, which IMO is not similar to classic Boogie Mark tone.

     

    5. It sounds like you have it right, though I like my chorus after the amp/preamp.

     

    6. Make sure you set the output mode to anything not labeled "front", and set the source inputs to Guitar and Variax if you're only using one amp/preamp model (or your Mark V preamp by itself).  Set the source inputs to Guitar and Same if you're running two amp/preamp models or your Mark V preamp in conjunction with one amp model.  Finally, with an outboard midi switching device, you can have the HD500 switch channels on your Mark V.

     

    I have a question for you now, how close can Channel 2 on your Mark V come to sounding like a Marshall?

    • sean106ESP Just Startin'
      sean106ESP
      90 posts since
      Aug 29, 2011
      Currently Being Moderated
      Sep 5, 2011 1:31 PM (in response to gregr)
      Re: Setting up the HD500 with my Mesa Mark V help!

      Hey thank you very much for the detailed response.

       

      Well channel 2.....never really had luck with it. I really use just the clean channel and Mark IV mode for my band. Channel 3 I tried every trick in the book and advice from the boogie board and can never get this "blanket" sound out of Mark I mode. What I mean is it sounds like some one covered the cab with a blanket.

       

      Sorry tangent.

       

      Ok it has been ages since I played a Marshall so I can't really tell ya if it does. But from what people post on the boogie board is that it is the go to channel for Brit tones.

       

      I will say Crunch mode has that classic rock feel to it when tweaked a ton. Kinda like AC/DC I guess

       

      Like not too dirty (not a high gain channel IMO) But nice grind with great note clarity. Hope that helps.

       

      Edit also when you mean midi switching device to change channels. Do you mean a GCX or a mini amp gizmo?

       

      That would be sweet to be able to switch channels on the Mark V using the HD500

      • gregr Iknowathingortwo
        gregr
        639 posts since
        Oct 26, 2009
        Currently Being Moderated
        Sep 6, 2011 9:51 AM (in response to sean106ESP)
        Re: Setting up the HD500 with my Mesa Mark V help!

        Thanks.  I have a TriAxis and 2:Ninety and am on the lookout for a Mark IV, though I have a patch on the HD500 that is handing that high gain tone pretty well.  I've only read about the Mark V.  A friend of mine swears his Stiletto nails the Marshall Plexi tone and I've been pretty impressed with that I've heard of the Electra Dyne.  There's also the Road King, but AFAICT, the Mark V is the only amp with a British mode that can also deliver that signature Boogie tone.

         

        For the MIDI-controlled switcher, yes the Amp Gizmo, Voodoo Lab Control Switcher and the Rockman Octopus; all can do the job.  There are probably others as well.

        • sean106ESP Just Startin'
          sean106ESP
          90 posts since
          Aug 29, 2011
          Currently Being Moderated
          Sep 9, 2011 4:44 PM (in response to gregr)
          Re: Setting up the HD500 with my Mesa Mark V help!

          Awesome the Triaxis and 2:90 are sweet.

           

          Well I did the 4 cbale method with the mark V and it sounded aweful. Not sure if I am just not setting it right but I went and made a bare bone spreset of just the treadplate, no cab simulation and the FX/Return/send on the POD menu behind the treadplate. Sounded so sterile and lifless. I must be doing something wrong. I had it set to stomp and not line. Even when I went to a clean model it was aweful. Maybe I need to just go Guitar---->POD HD500-------> Mark V FX return?? Thanks.

           

           

          I am starting to wonder if the HD500 is really just meant for recording on a computer as it sounds fantastic on my iMac using all the sims. Probably need to play around more with the settings or I am missing something.

          • gregr Iknowathingortwo
            gregr
            639 posts since
            Oct 26, 2009
            Currently Being Moderated
            Sep 10, 2011 10:40 AM (in response to sean106ESP)
            Re: Setting up the HD500 with my Mesa Mark V help!

            The most basic patch for testing 4CM would be just the FX block and the amp model in the amp block set to disabled.  You should get close to the same tone as you get running directly into the head without the Line 6 connected, except for a possible difference in overall output level.  I only say "close" because the output impedance of the send on the Line 6 is not the same as that of your guitar, so it will load the input of your Mesa differently.

             

            In order to get a feeling about how amp modeling-only interacts with the poweramp of your Mark V, then yes, use the two cable method that you laid out, using either of the POD's 1/4" outs into the effects return of your Mark V.  I would begin with a simple patch of just an amp or preamp model and no cabinet model.

             

            Again, make sure you choose the output mode as Combo Power Amp, Stack Power Amp or Studio/Direct if you're not using cabinet modeling.  If you're using cabinet modeling you want to use Stack Power Amp.  To keep it simple, just select Stack Power Amp.

             

            If you're going to run the preamp in your Mark V in parallel with an amp model, they need to be configured exactly like that: in parallel.  You do not want to run the FX block in the same series signal chain as a live amp model, unless you want to use an amp model as a stomp before your Mark V preamp (which I doubt you want to do), or vice-versa (which I doubt you want to do either).  I would avoid mixing amp models and the FX block in the same preset until you're comfortable with how each functions individually.  With some amps, trying both at the same time can get a bit funky, especially if you have a preamp that creates a lot of noise.  If you're trying to toggle the FX block on and off, you will probably want to turn the Trails feature off.  Again, get acquainted with the basics before diving into this kind of stuff.

             

            I hope this has been helpful.  The best way to deal with this is to take very small steps so that you can most effectively isolate any problems.

            • litesnsirens Iknowathingortwo
              litesnsirens
              649 posts since
              Mar 20, 2010
              Currently Being Moderated
              Sep 9, 2011 8:07 PM (in response to gregr)
              Re: Setting up the HD500 with my Mesa Mark V help!

              I used to use the Mark V with my HD500.  I used it in 4CM with the amp gizmo, worked very nicely using just the effects, I just found the extra set up time at gigs cumbersome.  So I switched to running directly into the FX return and using the amp models on the HD500.  I'm not going to discuss pros and cons of tone because both ways produced great tone but with 16 models to choose from without needing the amp gizmo was really nice. I enjoyed the flexibility.  To answer the question about Marshall tone on channel 2, it was pretty good, even better when I switched to EL34's in fact I like the whole amp better with EL34's. So many on the Boogie Forums would claim that you lose the tone on the clean channels but I actually like EL34 clean tone, I found it warmer, maybe I'm just not one of those guys that likes that "chime" of the 6L6's.  gregr, just out of curiousity does your friend like the clean tone on the stiletto, I've always thought it was great.  In the end I figured it was kind of a waste having all that pre amp power on the Mark V not being utilized so I sold it and got a second Bose L1 to go direct.  Works for me... as guitar players we're all chasing tone but in different ways...Sean106ESP, I hope you get everything sorted out, take my word for it there are a few different ways to get that rig sounding great, in fairness I struggled in the beginning trying sort out all the settings and was a little bummed out until I got it dialled in.  But it isn't the case that the HD500 is just for recording it can sound great with the Mark 5 so keep plugging away, you'll get it.

              • sean106ESP Just Startin'
                sean106ESP
                90 posts since
                Aug 29, 2011
                Currently Being Moderated
                Sep 10, 2011 7:56 AM (in response to litesnsirens)
                Re: Setting up the HD500 with my Mesa Mark V help!

                yeah I was trying all last night. But could not get a good...I guess "Metal Chug" tone. I turned off the cab sims. But wondering if I need more insight as to like where to put the FX loop in the patch as described in their video. Just was using the right into FX loop return. The 4 Cable like u said was too cumbersome. But I dunno I just could not stop tweaking my clean tone as well as my dirty and it just sounded so life-less. I know it is me and not the HD as I have seen vids of people using the HD500 with a power amp section and it sounded great. As greg said I gotta tweak some more.

                 

                Any more advice on how to set up the patchs guys? I put the FX loop right after the treadplate model and no cab sims. But wondering if I have to adjust the FX loop send and returns etc. I will hit the drawing board again tonight. Today at rehearsal I just bring the Mark V, a tuner, NS-2 in front and a chorus in the loop. I so badly look forward to the day I can just bring the HD500 and have a phaser in the front, the other FX like delays and reverbs....the wah...volume pedal and crystal clear clean JC-120 like tone. I have all thoe of course for recording. Thanks guys!

                • dbagchee Just Startin'
                  dbagchee
                  235 posts since
                  Apr 12, 2007
                  Currently Being Moderated
                  Sep 10, 2011 10:14 AM (in response to sean106ESP)
                  Re: Setting up the HD500 with my Mesa Mark V help!

                  If you are just running into the amp loop return you don't even need the fx loop effect in the chain, just go out the left 1/4" main out into your amps return and you should be good to go. Set your loop level to the middle (I'm assuming the loop is similar to my stiletto) and set the master output of the pod at max. Start with an empty patch, spin the amp dial to treadplate pre and turn the cab sim off, even the default settings should start sounding pretty good.

                  • gregr Iknowathingortwo
                    gregr
                    639 posts since
                    Oct 26, 2009
                    Currently Being Moderated
                    Sep 10, 2011 10:51 AM (in response to dbagchee)
                    Re: Setting up the HD500 with my Mesa Mark V help!

                    dbagchee wrote:

                     

                    If you are just running into the amp loop return you don't even need the fx loop effect in the chain, just go out the left 1/4" main out into your amps return and you should be good to go.

                    Yeah, I'm not sure why this is the case.  Sean mentioned a couple of external stomps, so I'm wondering if this is the case and we just haven't been given the whole picture.

                     

                    At any rate, it is best to start simple and work from there, meaning no additional effects.  When first using the HD500 into the poweramp of the Mark V using the two cable method, begin with just an amp model and no other blocks.  When first using the HD500 with the Mark V using the four cable method, begin with just the FX block and nothing else, meaning the amp block should be set to disabled.

                  • sean106ESP Just Startin'
                    sean106ESP
                    90 posts since
                    Aug 29, 2011
                    Currently Being Moderated
                    Sep 10, 2011 9:36 PM (in response to dbagchee)
                    Re: Setting up the HD500 with my Mesa Mark V help!

                    Thaks again guys. I am gonna give  a go again tomorrow night. I do recall i choose a bank. epmtied everything out and just started the tread plate model and no cab sims. It sounded very trebly and thin. But probably because I need to slowely tweak it. Also was not adding any stomp boxes but a noise gate. I mearly was referring to stomps I 'want' to have once I get her all tweaked.

                     

                    The loop of the mark V has a typical knob next to the loop send/return and you can adjust back and forth +/-. Keep ya posted guys!

              • gregr Iknowathingortwo
                gregr
                639 posts since
                Oct 26, 2009
                Currently Being Moderated
                Sep 10, 2011 10:28 AM (in response to litesnsirens)
                Re: Setting up the HD500 with my Mesa Mark V help!

                litesnsirens wrote:

                 

                gregr, just out of curiousity does your friend like the clean tone on the stiletto, I've always thought it was great.

                I didn't ask; he didn't offer.  We spent more talking about his Lonestar.  Funny thing is that he had always been a Marshall fan but now says he's "crossed over to the dark side," lol.

                • sean106ESP Just Startin'
                  sean106ESP
                  90 posts since
                  Aug 29, 2011
                  Currently Being Moderated
                  Sep 10, 2011 9:44 PM (in response to gregr)
                  Re: Setting up the HD500 with my Mesa Mark V help!

                  Sorta off topic but the Mark V clean tone I ever heard from a Boogie. Then again I only played recto's.....so not an honest comparision to the other series and Mark's. It is crystal clean and very bright. With a chorus in the loop it just sounds so full and bright (for my band I go for the hetfield live clean tone ) When I play with my band for now I just use the chorus in the loop always active for Channel 1. In front justa  tuner and NS-2. Mark IV mode sounds awesome.

                   

                  Hope to soone be using the HD500 in front

                  • sean106ESP Just Startin'
                    sean106ESP
                    90 posts since
                    Aug 29, 2011
                    Currently Being Moderated
                    Sep 20, 2011 9:22 PM (in response to sean106ESP)
                    Re: Setting up the HD500 with my Mesa Mark V help!

                    Hey guys back again. Thanks again for all your help. I have not given an update as I have been using it for recording. Sounds great. Here is a clip of kinda the sound I am looking for (keep in mind no bass and also just recorded my drummer with 2 SM57's and EQ'd it in Garage Band. The point is to hear the guitars.

                     

                    http://soundcloud.com/sean106ocd/iiwii-version-1-no-bass-novox

                     

                    Now back to using the Mark V.

                     

                    So I basically live want that Metallica Clean sparkle chorus and kinda of modern metal (even though my music and band is not metal) I always have been drawn to the distortion that sounds like Volbeat's albums or say Metallica's Death Magnetic....sorta (without the clipping ) and less sizzle.

                     

                    So taking it slow I did the ol guitar--------HD---------FX return of the Mark V. Mad a patch with a noise gate, wah, delay, volume and that is it for now. It is the treadplate model with no cab sims, (But the mic sims are still on.....is there a way to turn them off as I could not figure out to.) Set to stomp on the back of the 500 and in the I/O set to studio/direct as it seemed to sound the best out of all of them. for cleans I used a BF model and a chorus pedal and a slight flange to deepen it.

                     

                    Any other advice? (Especially setting up the I/O) Like regarding turning off the mic sim's and also any other models to start to play with for distortion? Next up I am going to see how the Uber and ENGL sound good live with the Mark V. Took a lot of tweaking and close to what I want....but still a little "model-esque" sounding if that makes any sense. Also what is the cleanest amp model that would get me close to a JC-120?

                     

                    Thanks!

                    • Nick_Mattocks Best of the Best
                      Nick_Mattocks
                      9,065 posts since
                      Mar 26, 2007
                      Currently Being Moderated
                      Sep 20, 2011 10:12 PM (in response to sean106ESP)
                      Re: Setting up the HD500 with my Mesa Mark V help!

                      I use my POD HD500 with my Marshall JVM head and 4x12 from time to time and I basically treat the Marshall as a power amp for the PRE amp models in the HD500.  I often turn off Cab modelling from the HD500 on the basis that my cab having Celestion Vintage 30's in it has a very strong character of its own.  When you turn off cab modelling, the mic sims are also turned off.  In fact the mic and A.I.R. sims are turned off when you use any POD HD500 output mode other than Studio/Direct too.

                       

                      With the DT50, the MASTER level from the POD HD500 is controlled automatically and it works well and ensures that the level coming out of the POD is sufficent to drive the power amp section hard enough, but obviously with a third party amp/power amp like my Marshall or your Mark V, you need to control this manually.  I simply set the HD500 output mode to Stack Pwr Amp, switch the AMP/LINE switch on the POD to LINE, turn off Cab modelling and turn the MASTER control up to 100% and then control the overall volume using the amp's own master volume control(s).  Not all amps with a Master Volume control work like this however and sometimes the overall level has to be controlled using the POD's MASTER control.

                       

                      As for getting that JC-120 sound, there's nothing quite like a real JC-120, however you could have some luck with any of the Fender models or maybe the HiWatt model if you wind the gain back and add some EQ to try and introduce that glassy sparkle.   The POD HD range could do with a JC-120 model at some point IMO

                       

                      Nick

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