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807 Views 5 Replies Latest reply: Dec 2, 2011 1:00 PM by rizzorock RSS
rizzorock Just Startin'
rizzorock
32 posts since
Jan 13, 2007
Currently Being Moderated

Nov 21, 2011 8:43 PM

MIDI Set up w/ Voodoo Labs Ground Control Pro & POD HD Pro Rack?

I am posting this in a few forums in the hopes that this actually make sense and that someone may have an answer.

 

So let me explain the scenario. Here was my previous setup: Voodoo Labs Ground Control Pro----> RJM RG 16 Switcher (with 4 or 5 pedals in the loops, including a Line 6 M5 for delays in the amps loop)----> Bogner Ecstasy Amplifier

 

So I recently purchased a Line 6 POD HD Pro in hopes of getting rid of the pedals using the 4 cable method. I have the VL Ground Control set up to have 4 presets per bank and 8 instant access buttons that are set up with the Line 6 MIDI CC# for toggling effects on and off. I have set up an FX chain preset in the Line 6 that has a whammy, phaser, chorus, tremolo, reverb, analog delay (all before the preamp) and a digital delay in the amps fx loop. What I want to do is be able to leave the same chain of FX for all 4 presets but have Preset #1 with only the Phaser toggled on. Preset #2 with only the whammy toggled on. Preset #3 with only the analog delay toggled on and Prest #4 with only the digital delay toggled on. Plus I'd like to be able to toggle other effects on if I'd like.

 

It was suggested to me to just make 4 different Program Changes in the Line 6 and use one for each of the 4 presets on the GCP. The problem with this is delay and reverb trails do not work when you are using Program Changes.

 

I am really hoping this makes sense and what I would like to do is possible. It would be very nice if for each song my band does be able to pull up a bank and have 4 presets using the same chain of fx as described above.

 

Thanks.

 

Many thanks to Jim Reynolds as well for all of his great setup advice. You're 4CM tricks worked flawlessly.

  • Nick_Mattocks Best of the Best
    Nick_Mattocks
    9,065 posts since
    Mar 26, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 28, 2011 11:35 AM (in response to rizzorock)
    Re: MIDI Set up w/ Voodoo Labs Ground Control Pro & POD HD Pro Rack?

    Hi

     

    Yes - I get where you are coming from with this.

     

    What you want to do is effectively:

     

    1. make the POD HD Pro deaf to MIDI Program Change Messages so the patch on the pro always stays the same and delay trails being enabled within a single patch will work for you
    2. set up individual patches that don't send Program Change messages on the GCP, but just send the relevant CC messages to turn various options (FX) in your POD HD Pro on or off on selecting the relevant patch on your GCP

     

    I don't have a GCP, so I'm only vaguely aware of all its capabilities to be honest.

     

    But I do have an HD500 and an HD Pro, and I can control the HD Pro to a degree from the HD500 and change patches on the HD500 without changing patches in the HD Pro, whilst still having the ability to turn individual FX on/off on the HD Pro from the HD500.

     

    I make the HD Pro deaf to Program Change messages sent by the HD500 by setting the HD Pro's base MIDI channel to a different channel to the HD500.  I send the relevant CC messages from the HD500 on the base MIDI channel number for the HD Pro.

     

    The only thing that doesn't work doing this is that the HD500 doesn't send the CC messages upon selecting the patch, but this might be different in terms of how your GCP works in that you might be able to force sending the CC messages upon selecting the patch in your GCP.  It really depends on the level of fine tuned control you have with your GCP.

     

    If delay trails were possible in the POD HD range when switching between patches that would be a good thing of course, but there would be a DSP overhead to offset the benefits.

     

    Nick

  • Line6Don Line 6 Support
    Line6Don
    5,274 posts since
    Mar 14, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 28, 2011 11:18 AM (in response to rizzorock)
    RE: MIDI Set up w/ Voodoo Labs Ground Control Pro & POD HD Pro Rack?

    Hey rizzorock,

       

      I agree with nickmattocks suggestion above. Give it a shot, and let us know your results. Like he mentioned "It really depends on the level of fine tuned control you have with your GCP."

       

      We have the updated MIDI CC reference information available on pages C1-C4 of the POD HD PRO Advanced User guide at the link below:

       

      http://l6c.scdn.line6.net/data/l/0a06434d54144e6f92aa2937e/application/pdf/POD%20HD%20Pro%20Advanced%20Guide%20(Rev%20B)%20-%20English.pdf

    • rizzorock Just Startin'
      rizzorock
      32 posts since
      Jan 13, 2007
      Currently Being Moderated
      Nov 28, 2011 12:27 PM (in response to Line6Don)
      Re: RE: MIDI Set up w/ Voodoo Labs Ground Control Pro & POD HD Pro Rack?

      jimsreynolds summed up my problem brilliantly.

       

      "I am going to restate here what you found cause it will affect a number of people and I wanted to make clear what the problem you had was - when people come looking.

       

      The issue in your case was that you wanted to be able to to retain reverb and delay trails when changing effects.  Patch changes (via Midi or otherwise) normally cause delays to be cut off hard. 

       

      However, you noted that Reverb and delay trails are preserved when you stay within an HD patch but instead toggle the specific effects off.  Your workaround would have been to stay within an HD patch and instead send a set of MIDI cc's from your Midi footpedal to force a group of effects to be flipped on or off.  This would have achieved your aims.

       

      Unfortunately the HD MIDI implementation does not appear to follow convention.  Typically a cc value of 0-63 means 'off' and 64-127 means 'on'.  However any value (0-127) sent to the HD simply flips an effect to its opposite state (on or off).  Therefore it is impossible to predict and automate the required HD effect  state using MIDI commands, within an HD Patch."

       

      until Line 6 changes the CC messages my problem is not fixable. we will see with the next update.

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