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Up to Discussions in DT50/DT25
587 Views 6 Replies Latest reply: Jul 21, 2012 6:34 PM by intirebolledo RSS
Minus4dBu Just Startin'
Minus4dBu
3 posts since
Nov 7, 2011
Currently Being Moderated

Dec 12, 2011 3:54 AM

Pedal restrictions for the DT25?

A new owner of a DT25 with a couple of questions:

 

1) What are the electrical characteristics of the guitar input? In other words, are there any kinds of pedals that are definitely not recommended to be used directly between the guitar and the DT25's input? (I'm not talking about the pedals' sound effects but more about their output/impedance etc.).

 

2) There is no level control on the FX loop on the DT25. What kind of FX pedals can the pre amp/power amp sections drive/handle comfortably - any restrictions? Does Line 6 recommend using a (tube) buffered FX loop box (whenever possible or only if you have one) to compensate and fine tune the FX loop? I don't have one yet...

 

There is no mention of any restrictions in the user manual so I'm assuming that the amp's not that fussy, but would like to be sure nevertheless...

 

Thanks

 

 

B.T.W. I find the DT25 is a good sounding and flexible amp , great in the home studio for tone searching/recording. The questions above are to help me widen its applications.

  • Rowbi Expert Line 6 User
    Rowbi
    7,745 posts since
    Nov 25, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 12, 2011 6:00 AM (in response to Minus4dBu)
    Re: Pedal restrictions for the DT25?

    it's a standard instrument input on the amp, so anything with an instrument level output ( usually high-Z ) will be fine.

     

    the loop will likely be line level, because it's between the preamp and power amp.  usually that would be lower than 600ohms, which is low impedance.

     

    with all that in mind, most stompbox type FX are usually geared for instrument levels, and high impedance (to connect to an amps input).  most studio rack gear is either line level (low impedance) but can sometimes be switched to instrument level too.

     

    I hopw this helps.

     

    Rowbi

    • Minus4dBu Just Startin'
      Minus4dBu
      3 posts since
      Nov 7, 2011
      Currently Being Moderated
      Dec 12, 2011 9:03 AM (in response to Rowbi)
      Re: Pedal restrictions for the DT25?

      Thanks Rowbi,

       

      That does help for the front end. The limiting factor will classically be the number of pedals and the total cable length. Long cable runs and   multiple true bypass stompboxes in series will seriously affect tone without a buffer or a pre amp in the right place at this end.

       

      However I'm still a little unsure about the FX loop. If it is line level output, it could (in theory) drive a number of modulation boxes (reverb, chorus, tape delay, flanger tremolo, etc) without tone loss, but I don't know how the pre amp tube is implemented in this section, hence my question. Granted you rarely use a lot of effects in series in the Fx loop but seeing that the DT50 also has the FX loop but adds an adjustable return level knob I wondered whether the DT25 would not benefit from a buffer of some sort to compensate for the lack of return level control?

       

      Hope this makes my question a little clearer.

      • Kneehow UberGuru
        Kneehow
        6,750 posts since
        Dec 26, 2007
        Currently Being Moderated
        Dec 13, 2011 10:12 AM (in response to Minus4dBu)
        Re: Pedal restrictions for the DT25?

        The Effects Return jack of both DT50 and DT25 amplifiers exist physically *before* the phase inverter and driver (DT50 only) 12AX7 tubes. The 12AX7(s) operates not as a preamp (like traditional tube/valve amps that most people tend to think) but rather as a signal phase inverter to drive the EL34 or EL84 power tubes in the power section of the DT series amps.

         

        So, I guess in theory if you're experiencing a perceived loss of "tone" you definitely could employ a buffer device, if desired in your effect loop chain. I haven't encountered any users experiencing this yet.

        • Minus4dBu Just Startin'
          Minus4dBu
          3 posts since
          Nov 7, 2011
          Currently Being Moderated
          Dec 14, 2011 1:50 AM (in response to Kneehow)
          Re: Pedal restrictions for the DT25?

          Aha!

           

          The 12AX7 signal phase inversion is interesting. Often used to very good effect (Fender amps etc....) it explains a lot of things I had wondered about.

           

          What it means (correct me if I'm wrong) is that - given the DT25's pre-amp section - it would be advisable to put nearly all pedal effects into the seriel FX loop just before the valves.

           

          In addition it would be preferable, but not obligatory, to use a buffer (I was thinking about something like "Fuchs Tube FX Loop"- disclaimer, no connection) to be able to adjust the return level of the FX loop close to what the pre-amp's output would be without it. Exceptions might be a good compression pedal.

           

          This way the "clean" character of the pre-amp would be preserved and used only for Line6 voicing -  (I suspected there was no point looking for 12AX7 pre-amp distortion here) - and power tube distortion possibilities are left wide open - I shall certainly experiment and see how different recordings sound.

           

          Thank you.

          • Intifelipe Just Startin'
            Intifelipe
            8 posts since
            Nov 20, 2009
            Currently Being Moderated
            Jul 20, 2012 11:26 AM (in response to Minus4dBu)
            Re: Pedal restrictions for the DT25?

            Hi there;

             

            Im experiencing the same kind of dilema.....

            I love the tone guitar amp (DT25H) just clean distorted ect...and I mean to say...guitar - cable - amp.

             

            so when I use some effects lets say chorus coming from my M9 true the dedicated effect loop of the DT25H, there it is a huge tone loss!

            but ok no panic...

             

            I have connect a tube preamp (ART tube mic preamp) to the send of the effectloop and got some nice credible effect 70% ok,

            but i'm still missing the sparkle of the tone, still missing some hight end, I just got a kind of steril tone, and the bell like tone it's gone away......

             

            I have made some experimentation, and I connect  between the effectloop send and return a simple patch cable (planetwaves aprox 15 cms), and for my surprice the tone loss it was incredible

            I just do not get it...

             

            so I was thinking to buy something like TCelectronic nova system or G-major II, for the line level thing...

             

            does some one experience the same?

            does someone got a good solution for this issue?

            some ideas....

             

            Thanks a lots!!

  • intirebolledo Just Startin'
    intirebolledo
    3 posts since
    Feb 3, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 21, 2012 6:34 PM (in response to Minus4dBu)
    Re: Pedal restrictions for the DT25?

    Hi there;

     

    Im experiencing the same kind of dilema.....

    I love the tone guitar amp (DT25H) just clean distorted ect...and I mean to say...guitar - cable - amp.

     

    so when I use some effects lets say chorus coming from my M9 true the dedicated effect loop of the DT25H, there it is a huge tone loss!

    but ok no panic...

     

    I have connect a tube preamp (ART tube mic preamp) to the send of the effectloop and got some nice credible effect 70% ok,

    but i'm still missing the sparkle of the tone, still missing some hight end, I just got a kind of steril tone, and the bell like tone it's gone away......

     

    I have made some experimentation, and I connect  between the effectloop send and return a simple patch cable (planetwaves aprox 15 cms), and for my surprice the tone loss it was incredible

    I just do not get it...

     

    so I was thinking to buy something like TCelectronic nova system or G-major II, for the line level thing...

     

    does some one experience the same?

    does someone got a good solution for this issue?

    some ideas....

     

    Thanks a lots!!

     

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