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526 Views 9 Replies Latest reply: Feb 3, 2012 12:59 PM by markcockerill RSS
markcockerill Just Startin'
markcockerill
246 posts since
Dec 7, 2007
Currently Being Moderated

Jan 30, 2012 2:28 PM

Dual amp model in HD500 to DT50 amp via link. What does the amp control on the HD500?

The manual explains well enough what to do when you have a HD500 connected to several physical DT-50s. I have a top quality DMX cable for the Link from HD500 to DT-50 head which I am currently not using..

 

But before I start messing big time with what I have already set up, I was thinking of using my current dual tone patches in the HD500 with just 1 DT-50 head and cab.

 

Question 1

If I were to want to alter the tone of the pre amp and adjust the physical knobs on the DT-50 channel A, am I right in thinking this will only adjust the tone of amp 1 model and not both amp models in the HD500 or can amp model 2  be controlled with preamp B on the amp? If it could then this would be the way to help create the perfect blend of 2 HD500 pre amp models working simulutaneously into a mono amp.

 

Question 2

If I were to assign a footswitch to effectively switch between amp model A and amp model B on the same patch, which channel does the DT-50 controls alter? or does it control which ever is engaged?

 

 

Question 3

How does the DT-50 react in the switching of it's relays to having two very different  pre amp models in dual mode? I can't get my head around this at all.

 

I would be very grateful if any of you nice chaps can lend a hand on this one. I have the dream rig but I just can't make it work. So until then I will continue to gig every week like I do with my Mesa stereo tube head and stereo 4x12 cab. I really want to use the DT-50 and I have become very used to having dual pre amp tone nicely blended.

 

There is no fun in having a thousand pound amp in the garage unused.

 

Many thanks in advance.

  • Iknowathingortwo
    MerlinFL
    1,667 posts since
    Jul 17, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 30, 2012 9:14 PM (in response to markcockerill)
    Re: Dual amp model in HD500 to DT50 amp via link. What does the amp control on the HD500?

    markcockerill wrote:

     

    The manual explains well enough what to do when you have a HD500 connected to several physical DT-50s. I have a top quality DMX cable for the Link from HD500 to DT-50 head which I am currently not using..

     

    But before I start messing big time with what I have already set up, I was thinking of using my current dual tone patches in the HD500 with just 1 DT-50 head and cab.

     

    Question 1

    If I were to want to alter the tone of the pre amp and adjust the physical knobs on the DT-50 channel A, am I right in thinking this will only adjust the tone of amp 1 model and not both amp models in the HD500 or can amp model 2  be controlled with preamp B on the amp? If it could then this would be the way to help create the perfect blend of 2 HD500 pre amp models working simulutaneously into a mono amp.
    **** Yes - this will only change amp 1 on the POD HD.

     

    Question 2

    If I were to assign a footswitch to effectively switch between amp model A and amp model B on the same patch, which channel does the DT-50 controls alter? or does it control which ever is engaged?

    **** Channel 1 only.  That seems to happen whether you have one or more than one DT head connected.  All patches created are routed through channel 1 on each amp.  If there is an exception, I've not found it.
    **** It does this with a DUAL AMP PATCH...It goes to channel ONE if ONLY amp 1 is turned off in either BYPASS or NO AMP If you have a DUAL amp with TWO or more DTs hooked up - amp 2 goes to channel B and whatever is physically set there.
    **** If a dual amp patch is connected to only ONE DT amp, then in a dual amp patch, the amp disabled in the patch DOES NOT affect the channel 1 of the DT head and simply just does not get heard.  BOTH amps would have to be off or bypassed to access channel B on a single DT head in a dual amp patch.

    Whew - I hope all this makes sense to those reading it. 

     

    Question 3

    How does the DT-50 react in the switching of it's relays to having two very different  pre amp models in dual mode? I can't get my head around this at all.
    **** Dual amp patches with only one DT will act as described above.  It doesn't matter what the second amp is set to since the first amp takes priority and channel 1.

    I hope these bits of info help.

     

    Take care,

    Neal

    • markcockerill Just Startin'
      markcockerill
      246 posts since
      Dec 7, 2007
      Currently Being Moderated
      Jan 31, 2012 4:53 AM (in response to MerlinFL)
      Re: Dual amp model in HD500 to DT50 amp via link. What does the amp control on the HD500?

      Many thanks dude.

       

      It appears then, that for the dream rig to work at it's best, dual pre amps in the HD500 is not the way to do it if like me, there is only one DT-50 connected. Which is a bit of a shame. Buying another DT-50 is just not an option. One DT-50 amp is way more than I need in terms of power and I play pretty darn loud in a rock band. Two DT-25 heads would be the answer but I feel that Line6 should provide them for free to all DT-50 owners as a matter of course, just for assuming that we all play in Wembley Arena at weekends.

       

      Anyone wanna buy a redundant DT-50 head is mint condition as new, never gigged?

      • Iknowathingortwo
        MerlinFL
        1,667 posts since
        Jul 17, 2007
        Currently Being Moderated
        Jan 31, 2012 1:05 PM (in response to markcockerill)
        Re: Dual amp model in HD500 to DT50 amp via link. What does the amp control on the HD500?

        I hope you are only kidding about selling your DT50 head.  I'd rather see you do your own experimentation and see if it can work well for you in your situation.

         

        What pops into my mind is that when building dual amp patches as I've been doing since my first Vetta combo...would be to put the amp and the effects you plan to access during your performance and use the second amp for doubling your amp sound without much FX added. Or use it as a complimentary sound that you can ADD any type of tone from something subtle to something drastic mixed together.

         

        If you play very heavy tones, you can get that from just one amp, BUT if you use a common "trick" in this style of music, add a second amp that is pretty clean with tons of punch and clarity.  This way your very heavy sound still cuts through and actually gives it more balls than just a full blown pair or single high gain amp can do.  This cleaner sound is usually not loud enough ot be perceived as a different sound, but just enough to do what I wrote to the big heavy main amp sound.

         

        I've written my own Start-Up Guide which is posted in my forums as well as featured in the main POD HD forum by L6Tony.  Perhaps that might help, or you can always download some of my patches or any others from CUSTOMTONE for free.  LOTS of ways to get to the sounds and functions you are looking for.  I strongly suggest exhausting all options before giving up.  This gear is NOT one dimentional and there are so many possible ways to get YOUR sound.

         

        And of course there are many others on this site who may have more or even better suggestions for you and your original question.

         

        All the best and take care,

        Neal

        • markcockerill Just Startin'
          markcockerill
          246 posts since
          Dec 7, 2007
          Currently Being Moderated
          Feb 1, 2012 6:24 AM (in response to MerlinFL)
          Re: Dual amp model in HD500 to DT50 amp via link. What does the amp control on the HD500?

          Thanks again Merlin dude. I have read your startup guide many times. I have had the HD500 for over a year and for most part delighted with it. Lack of sufficient DSP is a genuine nuisance and I have vented my outrage at this on other threads. There are many issues I have with Line6s philosophy which seem more money driven these days than they were when we bought into Vetta. I still use the Vetta for practice, jams and guest work with other bands. So I guess I am pretty clued up when it comes down to using complicated dual engined technology. I also have the X3L and Pro although I have lent my X3L to the bass player in my current band for his bass needs. The X3 pro is still my recording interface and I have no reason to upgrade that any time soon.

           

          Believe me when I say I want to love the DT50 and in one major respect I really do. If I use the amp at a jam and use the channel switch I bought, along with my Jim Dunlop Wah, Ernie Ball Volume Pedal and Electro Harmonics Memory Man (in the loop) then blimey what an amp, but does not provide all the requirements I need for a live gig.

           

          It's the integration of HD500 and the DT with the link that has my head reeling. The HD500 is a splendid unit in terms of sound and versatility and works brilliantly with my Mesa 50/50 tube head. Last night I copied my gigging set list to a spare set list slot and reverted all the patches back to single amp models. Made some tweaks to the tone of each and corrected the imbalance of volumes across the patches. Tonight I am going jamming where I can achieve full gig volume and will take the DT50 along with the HD and have another go. I'll let you know how I get on.

           

          I was joking about selling the amp, it's too good to sell.

          • Iknowathingortwo
            MerlinFL
            1,667 posts since
            Jul 17, 2007
            Currently Being Moderated
            Feb 1, 2012 10:33 AM (in response to markcockerill)
            Re: Dual amp model in HD500 to DT50 amp via link. What does the amp control on the HD500?

            Glad to read all that and we are both from the same background in the Line 6 world.  We also see things in the company in a similar way.

             

            However, I'm very glad you were just kidding about selling.  I'm also glad that you know it can take quite a bit of time and work to get what you want form these more "complicated" units Line 6 offers.  But I hope for you like I've found, you will be hapy with the end result.

             

            I look forward to reading your results after you play with your new single amp settings.

             

            All the best and take care,

            Neal

            • markcockerill Just Startin'
              markcockerill
              246 posts since
              Dec 7, 2007
              Currently Being Moderated
              Feb 2, 2012 5:23 AM (in response to MerlinFL)
              Re: Dual amp model in HD500 to DT50 amp via link. What does the amp control on the HD500?

              Thanks Neal

               

              Just to fill in a little more background. Like most folks I guess, getting a nice HD500 setting for acoustic has not been at all easy so I took the plunge and downloaded a patch from Customtone. After removing excessive reverb and bottom end from the EQ I have a really usable patch for my JTV69 acoustic. In the studio it sounded very good and of course the HD is in studio direct mode. The patch was then balanced for volume against the other patches in the bank. So far so good.

               

              After I wrote yesterday's summary I went home from school (place of work) and went into the garage to hook up the HD to the DT50 head and 4x12. I used the DMX cable and immediately something was very wrong. I remembered that the HD sets itself to Stack output and this has a massive impact on the voicing of my patches. So, I reverted the HD back to Studio direct and the patches sounded much more like the lushness I was expecting although the amp seems to be overloaded at the input. The master volume on the amp was barely on and the garage doors were rattling. This can't be right. The acoustic patch on my bank 3 does not work at all well. First it switches the DT50 to channel B and there is very little volume at all. The channel volume upped and still no usable volume, even adding a little drive just further distorted the input. Because there is no amp model on the HD there is very little I could do at that end so why does the tone controls on the DT50 on channel B have control on the acoustic patch? Still could not get rid of the distortion.

               

              Called in for tea and a bath so switched it all off. Whilst I lay there soaking I thought I might need to check that the HD was in the correct mode ie, pad the guitar input as I was using a regular quarter inch lead, Check the switch for amp/line output.

               

              Got to the jam nice and early so I could spend a little time having another go and sure enough I needed to change the output switch from Line to amp and this made a remarkable difference in that the amp did not seem as overloaded with input although still incredibly loud at low master volume setting. I tried pulling the knob out and thought I could get more flexibility of movement in the master volume control but did not care for the sound difference to the negative so I pushed it back in. I suppose if my clean patches are still clean then all is well, just get used to the frickin volume capability.

               

              So, the acoustic patch is unusable live but that is not an important issue as I don't play acoustic guitar live but there is just an intro to one song where this patch could be of use should I get it working satisfactorily. The rest of my patches on all three banks sounded very good and I didn't need to change a single thing and a good night was had by all.

               

              I will have to make a few minor changes to the patches to gig this rig but on the whole pretty happy and still retained the studio direct settings so that I can plug both the xlr cables from the HD to the PA and retain stereo delays although the amp modelling is now mono. In the grand scheme of things I can live with that. What I could not help but notice was how much more alive the amp is compared to the Mesa Boogie 50/50 stereo head. Much more response from the plectrum and dynamics to die for. I suppose the major benefit is that I can now turn around to the amp during a live performance and turn whatever knobs I like knowing that I am only effecting a single tone without a second unaffected amp model persistently there. Bend down and hit save.

               

              Anyway, if you can help with the acoustic Neal, that would be grand.

               

              Regards

              • markcockerill Just Startin'
                markcockerill
                246 posts since
                Dec 7, 2007
                Currently Being Moderated
                Feb 2, 2012 5:15 PM (in response to markcockerill)
                Re: Dual amp model in HD500 to DT50 amp via link. What does the amp control on the HD500?

                Hi Neal,

                 

                Band camp earlier this evening and I run my HD500 through the return socket on the Vetta which works well for rehearsal. Not quite valve tone but close enough.

                 

                I tried the acoustic patch mentioned in the previous post and because there is no physical switching on the amp, the sound came through in the Vetta beautifully. So, I tried the acoustic guitar model on the JTV on another bank with a clean patch and again the acoustic came through reasonably well but was using a Fender clean amp and coloured the sound of the acoustic somewhat but probably usable.

                 

                I have leaft my 4x12 cab at the jam venue in a lock up so won't be able to test the DT50 with acoustic settings til next Wednesday. No scrap that, I will get my gigging 4X12 from the back of the gig van tomorrow after school and take that home and try the acoustic through a clean fender amp model on the HD and see if I can resolve this issue. DT switching to channel 2 when no amp model is selected on the HD is clearly not working for me.

                 

                Hope to hear from you soon, I appreciate your time.

                • Iknowathingortwo
                  MerlinFL
                  1,667 posts since
                  Jul 17, 2007
                  Currently Being Moderated
                  Feb 3, 2012 12:49 AM (in response to markcockerill)
                  Re: Dual amp model in HD500 to DT50 amp via link. What does the amp control on the HD500?

                  Hi Mark - I'm glad anything I've written may have been of help to you working with your Line 6 gear.

                   

                  For two of my acoustic patches or any of my JTV guitar patches as well as my POD HD500 patches, please just go to http://line6.com/customtone/profile/MerlinFL/  and there you'll find all my patches I've posted that I thought would be the most useful or the most unique since there are so many excellent patch makers already.  I tried to post what seemed to be needed and others I'm just plain very proud of.

                   

                  The acoustic patches for the POD HD500 WILL set up your DT head as long as you have the most up to date firmware in the amps as well as the POD HD500.

                   

                  PLEASE remember to reset the HD500 output to STUDIO/DIRECT.  I also have my switch set to LINE in case you choose to plug the HD500 into a PA mixer or other amp's FX return jack.

                   

                  Also DO NOT use the Master volume knob pulled OUT.  You should be able to achieve a nice warm tone with PLENTY of volume with ALL DT500 head knobs set to the 12 o'clock position...EXCEPT the Reverb & Master Volume set to the 9 o'clock position.  You can SWAP the 9 o'clock position from the Master to the Channel volume if you feel that gives you a better end result.  They should be fairly close, but there IS a difference and a matter of personal taste.

                   

                  I hope you'll give them a try and please write back what you think.  Good or bad - I'd appreciate the feedback.

                   

                  Take care,

                  Neal

                  • markcockerill Just Startin'
                    markcockerill
                    246 posts since
                    Dec 7, 2007
                    Currently Being Moderated
                    Feb 3, 2012 12:59 PM (in response to MerlinFL)
                    Re: Dual amp model in HD500 to DT50 amp via link. What does the amp control on the HD500?

                    Neal dude, you are a true gent.

                     

                    I downloaded both of your acoustic patches.

                     

                    The acoustic 1 did not provide anything close to what I wanted but acoustic 2 does, however, with a few tweaks.

                     

                    This is what I have done to your patch to make is usable for me.

                    amp one drive down and volume up to balance with amp 2.

                    reduce chorus mix

                    reduce delay mix

                    turn off compressor

                    return volume pedal control to EX1

                     

                    I would not have dreamed of using the two amp models you have selected for playing clean acoustic but they clearly work and produce a great sound from the JTV acoustic. I will admit now that I am playing through the studio monitors but I know from experience that once plugged into the DT-50 I will be in the ball park. I can set up the mixing desk in my studio to pretty much replicate the tonal balance of what to expect from the amp and cab.

                     

                    Just to add, I played around with a whole load of guitar models on the JTV and they sounded really very good through this patch and not just acoustic models. The Jazz guitars and semi are particularly good. I must emphasise that my patch is somewhat altered from yours and our individual appreciation of fine sound is very subjective.

                     

                    Just for you I have attached my version of your patch just so you know where I am coming from.

                     

                    http://www.scunnydude.com/Misc/Acousticky.h5e  Hope it works, first time I've used this feature.

                     

                    The upshot of all your efforts in helping me resolve this issue is that I have learned to trust others' opinions and that the way I do things may not always be the right way. I have nearly given up many times on Line6 gear for being so damn complicated and frustrating to use in the real world of gigging. Sometimes, not everything others say or offer will be right for every particular application but learn that starting points for good tone may come from someone else's patches and not just starting from scratch on your own.

                     

                    I thank this forum for all the advice and encouragement to carry on with Line6. When you get it right it just plain works and does so very well indeed.

                     

                    Now to go and play some guitar, I could be a while.

                     

                    Regards

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