Currently Being ModeratedMar 27, 2012 8:35 AM (in response to bachbroccoli)Re: xd v75 daisychain bnc terminators and cables
In the order you set out:
One of the upgrades the XD-V75's appear to have over the V-70's is the ability to "self terminate" (that is not be affected by high, or "infinite" impedance at) their antenna "loop through" outputs. Along with built-in antenna looping and many other features, this is something normally only found on equipment that costs a whole lot more.
(Like you, I'm hoping one of the Line 6 representatives may shortly "come on board" with categorical confirmation.)
The variation in loss between 6" and 12" LMR-195 "daisy chain" cables is so small (virtually undetectable) as to make no practical difference. Line 6 very generously include the slightly more expensive cables to enable the neat "side by side daisy chain" of a pair of receivers in one 19" rack unit.
If, however, four receivers are to be arranged in one single vertical "stack" (as in my Gator GM-4WR road cases), the optional 6" patch cables make for a much neater and more compact assembly. Should two 19" rack spaces be required to accommodate two "side by sides" one below the other as a "flat" rack of four, a pair of optional 6" patch cables would similarly neaten the vertical links required for their "daisy chain".
Paddle antennae are all designed to be used with their "plates" vertical. The amazingly compact, powered "head" amplifiers built in to both Line 6 models compensate for cable losses, allowing for their location such that the transmitter/s can much more readily have direct RF "line of sight" to their receiving antennae. In most cases this represents a vast improvement over those antennae being directly attached to their "floor or desk bound" receiver/s.
As their names suggest, the P360's have a 360 degree (pretty much spherical) "all round" pick-up pattern, the P180's "180 degree" (pretty much hemispherical) pattern having 6 dB more gain at the (labelled) "front" face of their plates, whereby they "back reject" possible interference from "behind".
Accordingly, the P360's are better suited to all-round pick-up from the "middle" of a venue or performance space, the P180's being better for directional pick-up from a given "end" or "side", with their front "face" pointed directly at the transmitter/s.
Neither should be confused with (nor orientated like) the more common "log periodic" paddle antennae, which need to be aimed "rifle style", ...aimed along their "spine" such that the thin "end" of the plate is pointing towards their transmitters.
Currently Being ModeratedMar 27, 2012 12:16 PM (in response to RonMarton)Re: xd v75 daisychain bnc terminators and cables
Thanks for your clear and informative reply.
I've built my four receivers combined with a soundcraft efx-8 mixer vertically in a small flightcase.
I daisychained them with the 12"patch cables and am concidering to buy the 6" patch cables for a neater set up.
I ordered some 6 feet lmr-240 bnc cables to attach the p360 paddles to the receivers.
Probably we'll buy the p180 as well because we need the best reception we can get, in most different circumstances.
At our gigs (two vocals, one guitar) we walk and sing and play amongst the audience who most of the time are sitting at tables or standing at high tables.
Sometimes at little festivals/fairs outside with people walking around.
My fear is that the bodies of our audience will absorb the RF and that maybe will will lead to drop outs. i already noticed that if i shield the antenna of the transmitter with my hand or put the transmitter tight to my back (not facing the antenna's) i get drop outs.(but maybe that because i still use the rg58 cables for the paddles, that's why i ordered the lmr-240 cables)
We haven't tried it yet with an audience because the set up needs to be completely finished , tested and optimised with the right antennas and cables.
If it doesn't work the way we want we'll probably sell it again.
That would be a pity because i already noticed the sound is very, very good and it's easy to use.
By the way: increasing the gain with the switch on the paddles, will it also improve the rf reception of the antennas?
Currently Being ModeratedMar 27, 2012 5:49 PM (in response to bachbroccoli)Re: xd v75 daisychain bnc terminators and cables
First .. thanks Ron for th very clear answer! You can anwer them and I'll just collect the paycheck :-)
LMR 240 is not necessary until you exceed 100 feet using the Line 6 paddles. LMR195 is much easier to work with and less expensive. I would recommend that you get a little longer cables so you can spread the paddles a bit farther apart. That has a lot of advantages. Try to get your paddles between 6 and 8 feet up in the air for best results.
Increasing the gain of the antenna amps is a double edged sword. While it gives you better reception it also picks up more unwanted interference. Take a look at "RF performance" in the setup mode and you can see how well your antennas are working at your venue. A "little" more might be a benefit, but a "lot" more will likely cause problems you don't want.
Currently Being ModeratedMar 27, 2012 6:09 PM (in response to bachbroccoli)Re: xd v75 daisychain bnc terminators and cables
The RG58 cables pretty much negated the effect of your antennae! (You can easily prove this by repeating your test using the supplied "rubber duckies" instead.)
LMR-240 is superb microwave cable. I own 2 x 25 foot lengths as a semi-permanent installation in one of my regular venues, but I wouldn't recommend it for life "on the road".
...Aah, the romance of the "strolling player" ! (Especially should it be related to the amazing Johann Sebastian...)
It's really bulky and hard to roll-up compared to LMR-195.
You're "spot on" regarding RF absorbtion by the salt-water-filled carbon-based lifeforms that attend performances, which is why I take duct (gaffer) tape, tall boom stands as well as a variety of cheap cable ties, clamps and mounts in order to easily arrange (and subsequently, easily de-rig) line of sight orientation for my antennae.
Given a variety of locations and venues, I feel you'll need at least one 25 foot length (or, even better, 50 foot) of the much more easy to wrangle (yet very effective and much cheaper) LMR-195 BNC cable that'll enable the true diversity system to "see" around such RF obstacles as crop up. Be aware that trees, shrubbery (even potted) or any metal can cause problems. It's often handy to have the convenience of one antenna near by, with the other coming from the left or right "outfield".
The best price I've found for high quality LMR-195 BNC's (albeit in pairs) is here:
As for cheap clamps and mounts, I've listed two below, both of which I regularly use in preference to stands as they very often allow mounting that's less susceptible to alcohol-fuelled interference.
A neat trick for the quick overhead (hence, out of alcoholic reach and/or sight) "flinging" of antenna (or other) cable is to use a $2 beach fisherman's hand caster (looks like a plastic railway wheel) to store 15 to 20 metres (45 to 60 feet) of polypropylene "clothes line" rope for a "pull through".
Attach a suitable "sinker" to its end, creating precautionary "shock-proofing" by having it encased in the soft, empty PVC housing from a standard mains socket or some such.
You simply "cast" this sinker and cord over whatever smooth "bracket" or "hook" the location provides and haul away.
Incidentally, one advantage the omnidirectional P360's have is the very fact that they don't need to be "aimed" once they're vertical. It's also often forgetten that paddle antennae are equally effective "BNC up" or "BNC down".
Given the amazing compactness and light weight of Line 6's paddles, this can (in some locations) facilitate ridiculously easy rigging and de-rigging by virtue of simply "hanging" the paddles by their BNC cables.
Regarding the "gain" switch, it has no effect on the antennae themselves, it simply boosts such signals as they're "capturing" to compensate for the attenuation that's inherent in the length of cable.
Accordingly, should the antennae be receiving interference, it'll boost that as well, which is why we strive to orientate them for the best reception of our mics and only our mics.
I tend to use the middle gain position as a starting point for "walk" testing of my 50 foot LMR-195's, which has only occasionally resulted in my use of both higher and lower gain settings, depending on both the XD-V's LED ladder RF indicators and my ears.
Having taken this trouble to orientate their receiving antennae, my TBP and THH12's spend most of their life operating brilliantly in the "battery save" low power mode, as too much RF around the place often creates another set of problems.
Currently Being ModeratedMar 28, 2012 4:13 PM (in response to RonMarton)Re: xd v75 daisychain bnc terminators and cables
Thanks for the informative reply.
I ordered 25ft lmr-195 and hope it wil do the job.
I hope everything will work out fine and improve our sound and performance.
Currently Being ModeratedMar 28, 2012 6:01 PM (in response to bachbroccoli)Re: xd v75 daisychain bnc terminators and cables
I'm certain you'll have no trouble strolling around an entire fairground, ...once you're familiar with "walk testing" and placing your P360's.
By the way, keep an eye out for the big table-mounted umbrellas that "mushroom" at such venues.
If they've metal poles, they're an RF problem, but (thankfully) these days they're nearly always polypropylene with polyethylene and/or PVC poles and struts, which makes them an ideal way to both mount and conceal the cabling from your antennae !
Just electrical-tape the P360's mic thread stub to the umbrella's pole, as high as you can. It's even better if the pole ends in a spike on the brolly's outside, a perfect mounting spigot that's out of public reach once the umbrella's up ...and dead easy to de-rig when collapsed.
Incidentally, be wary of rain entering and possibly destroying the antenna's tiny, active "head amp" or its "gain" switch. Disposable "zip lock" sandwich bags make a perfect (really cheap) RF transparent and wind resistant "rain hat".
You will also, almost certainly, get less range when it's raining.