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1489 Views 27 Replies Latest reply: Apr 14, 2012 8:04 PM by samuelito2011 RSS
samuelito2011 Just Startin'
samuelito2011
105 posts since
Nov 14, 2011
Currently Being Moderated

Apr 11, 2012 2:40 PM

I need HELP!!!

HEllo brother and sister

 

Firstable im so thankful i found this group i was going to create one!

 

ANyway, im dealing with my pod hd500 and im looking for a good amp that will not color my sound created by headphones

and i bought a Roland Kc but it doesnt work i dont know whats wrong the light doesnt turn on but i can hear a noise coming and i try everything

but i give up and im going to return it... So my idea is getting an amp and mic to Pa at church... I dont want to go straight to Pa cause i want to have full control from my amp.... Right now im using a Marshall Mg100dfx... I have been asking around but maybe you guys have more experience and the most important WE ALL TRYING TO GIVE THE LORD THE BEST! Help me out and give me examples, ideas or even send me pictures to see how you guys are using the pod hd500!

 

thanks guys

 

and God bless you ALL and 10000 thank you for the ADD

Tags: monitor, pod, live, guitar, band, god, roland, hillsong, brewster, christian, delays, lincoln, hd500, kc, ffrp
  • jgribble57 Just Startin'
    jgribble57
    6 posts since
    Feb 20, 2008
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    Apr 11, 2012 3:32 PM (in response to samuelito2011)
    Re: I need HELP!!!

    Get a keyboard amp or other powered speaker, not a guitar amp.  You can run XLR to the mains and 1/4 to the keyboard amp.   

  • hitchface Just Startin'
    hitchface
    334 posts since
    Jul 1, 2007
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    Apr 11, 2012 6:08 PM (in response to samuelito2011)
    Re: I need HELP!!!

    Your first problem is headphones. They are great for picking out details in a mix and fixing minor issues, but they give a VERY poor representation of a live sound out of the POD (or any other device). That is by design...you can EQ all you want, but you won't even get close.

     

    With that in mind, a powered monitor is your best bet. If you can possibly swing it, get something in at least the same series as your PA mains. Otherwise, go for the most transparent thing your dollars can buy.

     

    Personally, I love nearfield monitoring on a stage that needs to be quiet, so I use a Roland CM-30. I can either run a signal to both the PA and monitor separately (which I do), or I can pass the signal through the monitor so if I make basic EQ changes (and I stress basic...don't tick off your sound guy with on-the-fly tweaking), the house hears it.

     

    Which leads me to my last question/point: The POD is designed so that you don't have to make constant tweaks while you play. That's what patches and virtual stomp boxes (and a virtually infinitely assignable expression pedal) are for. Why do you need access to your amp while you play?

    • samuelito2011 Just Startin'
      samuelito2011
      105 posts since
      Nov 14, 2011
      Currently Being Moderated
      Apr 11, 2012 8:48 PM (in response to hitchface)
      Re: I need HELP!!!

      Thank you for this info is really Good... you might be right cause headphone are different from my marshall amp and PA system...

      today we have practice at church and I really quick did a test while everyone was setting up... I connected my pod hd500 directly to the Pa system from XLs and my sound was too bright and harsh... It sound like i didnt have bass at all... but then i connect it back the way I always do Pod hd500---to----marshall into FX return 1/4 input and i put back the MIC infront on the amp and the sound was better but i didnt like it either...

       

      you asked me WHY i need access: Its cause when im playing my guitar at church, the singers, the keyboard guy everyone has high volume and i could bearly hear myself and i cannot enjoy or hear what is coming to the PA... So i thought that IF i connect the pod through a really good Amp and kind of loud will lhear myself and even enjoy worship the Lord... Also if i mic this amp, i could just control the volume from the pod to the amp and PA.. If i have to much on the Pa i could just lower it myself from the amp and if i dont have enought i could just increase the volume of the Amp... Thats why... aT church we dont have anyone incharge of the PA. We do everything ourself,,,

       

      thank you so much for your help and I'll be waiting for you response ASAP... Gbu

      • StokesGA Just Startin'
        StokesGA
        40 posts since
        May 3, 43500
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        Apr 12, 2012 5:33 AM (in response to samuelito2011)
        Re: I need HELP!!!

        I didn't see it mentioned so I have to ask.. do you guys use individual floor monitors?.. If so turn everyone else down in your individual monitor and turn yourself up..If you don't have individual floor monitors.. consider gettone one for yourself.. it is way cheaper than buying an amplifier..even most powered monitors are cheaper than allot of amplifiers..

         

        Also really discuss with your team training someone to be in charge of the PA system, that way you'll ensure you have the best mix possible going out to the crowd..

         

        There are better quality of headphones that will deliver a truer responce, studio grade phone I have found get really ,, really close.. I still had to hook up to the PA at church though take my laptop with me and tweak out my main patch to get it just right..

         

         

        I use a small practice amp as a monitor for myself at church.. although it does color the sound.. I have the amp turned towards me and not towards the crowd.. so they really do not hear what is coming out of that amp vs.. what is coming out of the PA mains and subs.

         

        One more thing is.. if you have a good amp that accepts a effects loop..simply turn off the amp model on the HD500 and use only the effects running your HD 500 in the effects loop of your amplifier rather than running it through the guitar input.. , using your amplifiers tone as your main sound..If you are truly intent on micing the amp..

        • Stratotron Just Startin'
          Stratotron
          132 posts since
          Mar 13, 2007
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          Apr 12, 2012 9:11 AM (in response to StokesGA)
          Re: I need HELP!!!

            I have copied in bold a post of mine form another thread. It sounds like the same situation;

           

           

          My 2 cents. HD500

           

          I run a mono "wye" adapter from both Right and Left 1/4" outs to the 1/4" in on a DI box. The 1/4" out from the DI Box goes to a solid state 50watt Marshall combo with a solid back that I use for my monitor, in front of me aimed away from the house. The XLR from the DI box routes to the board. I choose this because I was getting different sounds and levels from the 1/4" and the XLRs. This way I am more assured that what I am hearing from my onstage amp/monitor is the same thing that is being routed to the board. And by using right and left outs and adapting them to mono, I am not concerned about panning.

           

          I also choose to use a personal stage monitor because at an event, which I montiored through the house monitors, I struggled to hear what I was doing.  I will never do that again. Don't get me wrong, I am not blasting my amp, I just have it situated so I have complete control over my "environment". Last night at rehearsal, the leader actually asked me to turn up!!!!

           

          With the flexibility of the HD this way of connecting too shall (probably) pass.

           

          Let me add that I run the 1/4" in to the effects return of my Marshall, so I am only using the power amp section and no amplifier tone controls are engaged. I have my HD set to Combo Front so I can adjust the focus in the HD output section. If the rig is inherntly too brite sounding, the focus control can go a long way to fix it. Once again and as always, I have found that I need to write patches to be slightly dull in the headphones (read the Fletcher Munson Loudness Study) because once you turn the rig up to performance volume the upper mids go through the roof. This is why it will sound sweet at home at low volumes but stark and brittle once you turn it up.

           

          Oddly enough, we held our Easter Service at the Escondido Center for the Perfroming Arts last Sunday, and I listened to a field recording, and while my guitar levels were balanced and the patch voices were correct, the overall guitar tone lacked "sparkle", or "twang". For instance it seemed like the room "ate/absorbed" the vibro effect on one song and the triplett trailing delay of another. I will be working on this! ( maybe I need to go back to the XLR's out?!)

           

          Blessings Bros...

          • samuelito2011 Just Startin'
            samuelito2011
            105 posts since
            Nov 14, 2011
            Currently Being Moderated
            Apr 12, 2012 12:57 PM (in response to Stratotron)
            Re: I need HELP!!!

            where did you get the WYE cable?

            • Stratotron Just Startin'
              Stratotron
              132 posts since
              Mar 13, 2007
              Currently Being Moderated
              Apr 12, 2012 1:22 PM (in response to samuelito2011)
              Re: I need HELP!!!

              I ordered it from Musicians Friend. I also bought a 1/4" X 1/4" male adapter. the WYE cable is 1-1/4" female X 2- 1/4" male. The male adapter takes the place of a cord. THe entire connection is about 8" long.

               

              Try opening the "focus" control in your output section with your amp plugged in and turned up. Hammer a chord and roll the focus lower and pull the highs down till you like it. Make sure and write the default values in case you hate it and want to return it to the factory setting. The focus changes the global "bias" of the HD. The HD needs to be set to Combo Front, or the focus control won't be an option. I know it will seem weird, but I have my HD set to Combo Front and I "WYE cable" it in to my effects loop in, all so  I have the focus control.

               

              I strongly suggest reading the Fletcher Munson Loudness Contour Study. I fought with digital effects for years, until I read the FMLCS. It explained what was happening and it all made sense. It sounds like you have equipment, it is all how it is set up. There is a version here on the Line 6 site somewhere or do a simple google search. The basic concept of it is really simple. Trust me Bro, it will all make sense!

               

              Blessings,

               

              Strato

              • samuelito2011 Just Startin'
                samuelito2011
                105 posts since
                Nov 14, 2011
                Currently Being Moderated
                Apr 12, 2012 1:42 PM (in response to Stratotron)
                Re: I need HELP!!!

                hey man this is interesting! i never though i could to that... well if im correct you are saying that i should set my out mode to combo Front amp and play with option right! well it might work cause you see this is how im connecting it... POD HD500 Mono 1/4 to Marshall mg100dfx fx return and i turn the master fx all the way (to me this is like a volume knob)... thats it.... but the sound the come out is not good is like it has too much bright but in my headphone sound amazing.... i dont know man...

                 

                 

                im going to do my homework right now google the the book you are saying LOL

                 

                thank you man

                 

                tell me what doyou think?

                 

                GBU

                • samuelito2011 Just Startin'
                  samuelito2011
                  105 posts since
                  Nov 14, 2011
                  Currently Being Moderated
                  Apr 12, 2012 1:43 PM (in response to samuelito2011)
                  Re: I need HELP!!!

                  ah could you also send me a link fro the wye cable please! thanks

                  • samuelito2011 Just Startin'
                    samuelito2011
                    105 posts since
                    Nov 14, 2011
                    Currently Being Moderated
                    Apr 12, 2012 1:51 PM (in response to samuelito2011)
                    Re: I need HELP!!!

                    i cant find what you are saying about Fletcher Munson Loudness Contour! can anybody guide me or send me a link or something please PDF i will be more then grateful

                    thanks

                    • Stratotron Just Startin'
                      Stratotron
                      132 posts since
                      Mar 13, 2007
                      Currently Being Moderated
                      Apr 12, 2012 2:02 PM (in response to samuelito2011)
                      Re: I need HELP!!!

                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contour

                       

                      Look at the graph, in really simple terms, the lower line is your headphones at low volume. Now look at the upper line, that is your guitar turned up ( numbers on the left are dB, you probaly are around 80 to 90 opened up). See how the curve flattens out and the high end goes off of the scale. Basically what the study shows is, as you turn something up, the upper mids and highs are accentuated. This is eaxactly what is happeneing when you set your system at a low volume and then crank it up to play.

                       

                      I have tried to simplify and others here could probably explain wiht more detail.

                      • samuelito2011 Just Startin'
                        samuelito2011
                        105 posts since
                        Nov 14, 2011
                        Currently Being Moderated
                        Apr 12, 2012 2:17 PM (in response to Stratotron)
                        Re: I need HELP!!!

                        you know i was getting an idea about that! i was thinking that when i play a low volume here at home is not the same as i incread the volume at church in my amp... now im talking about just the amp when i tried a few time to set it right but i couldnt it..... even though i dont understnad but i'll will keep ttry to read more

                         

                        thank you so much for your help

                        • Stratotron Just Startin'
                          Stratotron
                          132 posts since
                          Mar 13, 2007
                          Currently Being Moderated
                          Apr 12, 2012 2:31 PM (in response to samuelito2011)
                          Re: I need HELP!!!

                          In really simple terms, try writing a patch at home through your headphones, and puposely create it so that it sounds a little dull. Roll the presence and the high end off of the amp model. What I do is think in terms of "notching" or "scooping" out the upper mids and lowering the highs, you could do this with an EQ. Based on the loudness study, once you turn it up to play those frequencies should "re-appear".

                           

                          This is a common thread with new Digital effects users, it comes up in discussions all of the time. I am surprised that Line 6 hasn't created a "loudness" function for the HD rigs. It seems like it is a predictable enough value to say, engage the loudness function and punch in your estimated db????? Old stereo amps and recievers had a loudness button.

                           

                          Blessings, Strato.

                          • samuelito2011 Just Startin'
                            samuelito2011
                            105 posts since
                            Nov 14, 2011
                            Currently Being Moderated
                            Apr 12, 2012 7:25 PM (in response to Stratotron)
                            Re: I need HELP!!!

                            thank you so much for you help Brother!

                             

                            but i still dont understand what you are telling me to do. firstable do you think my tones are not good enough for not been using EQs?

                             

                            could you guide me or show me how to use them????

        • samuelito2011 Just Startin'
          samuelito2011
          105 posts since
          Nov 14, 2011
          Currently Being Moderated
          Apr 12, 2012 12:53 PM (in response to StokesGA)
          Re: I need HELP!!!

          we dont have individual monitors at church but i have a guitar amp with fx loop and that how i have been using it but the thinng color my sound and i dont see getting any tone that i like only with my headphones at home... so that why i want a good amp that will sound not exactly but most likely like the headphone...

           

          WHAT MONITOR COULD YOU RECOMMEND ME!?  i know it has to be a power monitor if i get one i will like not be heavy and not too big

           

          thanks

  • hitchface Just Startin'
    hitchface
    334 posts since
    Jul 1, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 12, 2012 7:41 PM (in response to samuelito2011)
    Re: I need HELP!!!

    As I said before, the Roland CM-30 is a great choice for nearfiled monitoring. It mounts on a mic stand, and if you get it close to you, like it should be, you will not need it to be very loud to overcome the rest of the band. It will make your congregation love you, too, since you won't have so much noise coming from the stage. Inverse square law.

     

    Other popular big units are the QSC K-series units, Mackie Thumps, JBL Eons, etc. Some people really like the Tech21 Power Engine, but it is a guitar amp, so it won't be as transparent as a PA monitor would be.

    • samuelito2011 Just Startin'
      samuelito2011
      105 posts since
      Nov 14, 2011
      Currently Being Moderated
      Apr 12, 2012 8:23 PM (in response to hitchface)
      Re: I need HELP!!!

      so you use one of this Roland CM-30... how loud is it? im looking it forward too cause is really small but is only 30watt... could be not loud enough at the stage and thats what im afraid.. I like cause your mention it and i wish you could uploada video or a recording so i could hear myself how it sound combine with pod hd500....

       

       

      Could you give more details how do you use it? could you upload a photo at least? well if you dont mind at all im just trying to figure it out your setup...

       

      i love the idea but im not quite sure

       

      Gbu Bro take care

      • hitchface Just Startin'
        hitchface
        334 posts since
        Jul 1, 2007
        Currently Being Moderated
        Apr 12, 2012 9:17 PM (in response to samuelito2011)
        Re: I need HELP!!!

        I don't have my own photo, but let me see if I can help you out.

         

        http://www.roland.com/products/en/CM-30/

         

        The speaker is actually deceptively loud. For many events where we have only a presenter and no music, we use it as the sole PA speaker to cover a 50x50 auditorium. Even routing music into it is no problem...it pushes A LOT for its size. Almost any review you read will tell you the same thing. There are even gigging synth players that run a pair in stereo for personal monitoring.

         

        When I use it, I have it mounted on a mic stand, no farther than an arm's length from me. I can have it hurting my ears before anyone else complains.

         

        The key is that this is a NEARfield monitor...it is meant to be close to you. The inverse square law in audio means this: If you stand twice as far away from your speaker, you need to double the volume just to hear it the same. If you cut your distance in half, you also cut the volume in half. Get it up close...you might be surprised.

         

        Go to a local store that has one and see if you can rent one for a weekend and see how you like it. Or just buy and return...only about 200 bucks Canadian.

        • samuelito2011 Just Startin'
          samuelito2011
          105 posts since
          Nov 14, 2011
          Currently Being Moderated
          Apr 12, 2012 9:21 PM (in response to hitchface)
          Re: I need HELP!!!

          thank you some much for the info

           

          I cant sleep and is around 12 am and i cannot stop thinking that is might be better than the Roland KCs i dont know why but im been reading review on sweetwater.coma dn amazon and see what i found from some random buyer

           

          """"

          Was I surprised when I got this thing home and put it through some rounds with a Kurzweil PC2 and SP2. It's little more than a compact brick, but it appears to have the power of my KC150 and, more importantly, in terms of "listenability" it sounds like its several heavens apart from the KC 150 or 350 (those ever-present Roland KC amps will make any piano, including Rolands, sound uninspiring if not boring during the course of a four-hour gig). This latest contender covers the entire piano range, effortlessly, smoothly, providing rich yet responsive bass where its needed and brilliant but not strident highs. Perhaps some would judge the sound a trifle "colored." If so, I'll take the coloration any day to the untempered sounds I've been getting from electric keyboards. The mid-range is tight and controlled, with the upper register "growing out" of it gradually but unmistakably. By contrast, the upper register on the heavy-duty KC amps strikes like a serpent, leaping out of the mix like home-brewed white lightning hitting the palate after it's just gotten accustomed to a vintage Bordeaux.


          I even compared this little thing to my previous standard--the Roland Cube 60 that had preceded the KC150 (which has been around too long). This new one was smoother, bending to the bass notes like a gracious willow and springing to the top ones like fresh spring birch. In other words, even the Roland Cube sounded uneven and rough compared to this latest overachiever, which handled the tones of the scale like a single portamento, revealing no holes in any of the registers.''''

           

           

          SEE  this thing is calling me!!! LOL

           

          now my question is HOW GOOD IS THE SOUND???

          • hitchface Just Startin'
            hitchface
            334 posts since
            Jul 1, 2007
            Currently Being Moderated
            Apr 12, 2012 10:05 PM (in response to samuelito2011)
            Re: I need HELP!!!

            For that, you'll just have to try one

            • samuelito2011 Just Startin'
              samuelito2011
              105 posts since
              Nov 14, 2011
              Currently Being Moderated
              Apr 13, 2012 4:03 AM (in response to hitchface)
              Re: I need HELP!!!

              thank you brother for everything i made my mind im going after this one cause it could work better than roland KC150 which was supposely the one that i was going to get...

               

              the ROLAND CM30 has hundred reviews on the web and i mean im going to store and see i can try it but for now is my best choiise i love the idea that is a monitor for stage and i can hook it up in any microphone stand...

               

              My plan is buy one, get a stand and use a SHURE SM57 (own one) and mic it to the PA system at Church... DO YOU THINK WILL WORK GOOD LIKE THIS?

               

              how do you use at the PA? you mic it or you going direct?

          • StokesGA Just Startin'
            StokesGA
            40 posts since
            May 3, 43500
            Currently Being Moderated
            Apr 13, 2012 4:15 AM (in response to samuelito2011)
            Re: I need HELP!!!

            I agree with hitch..also.. there are many good powered and non powered monitors on the market,, The very best one I have ever heard is actually not a very popular one.. it is made by a company called B52.. I have one of their stack amplifiers and it is awesome.. I had the chance a while back to hear a band that was using the B52 wedge monitors.. MAN they sounded better that JBLs, better than anything I have heard and plus they were built like a tank..Needless to say I was impressed with them.. so much so.. my next purchase once I save up the money is going to be a B52 monitor..

             

            Another company to not ignore for high quality audio is Carvin, best known really for their guitars. but their amplifiers and audio speakers are top of the line!

            • samuelito2011 Just Startin'
              samuelito2011
              105 posts since
              Nov 14, 2011
              Currently Being Moderated
              Apr 14, 2012 8:51 AM (in response to StokesGA)
              Re: I need HELP!!!

              last night discover why is that my pod sound to bright in the Pa sytem at church. We have Allen & Health ZED 428 and JBL speakers.... i though something was wrong with the mixer so my friend start touching knobs on my channel and then he told me that we should try a B52 old that was there too and i told him yes... Since we tried i was like WOW man thats what i was looking man.... Basically THE B52 were the best... maybe JBL are to bright to make pod work properly or something....

               

              I wish all the speaker were B52 and working perfectly

               

              GBU

  • daveschutt Just Startin'
    daveschutt
    280 posts since
    Sep 8, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 14, 2012 7:02 PM (in response to samuelito2011)
    Re: I need HELP!!!

    It's been my experience that if your patches sound too bright/brittle/trebly through the PA one of the main causes is creating them at a bedroom or non live volume.  If I don't have the opportunity to tweak my patches before a gig at full volume I will generally color them a bit mid heavy at low volume, dial down the treble and presence and get pretty close to where I want it when I play direct out through the PA.   If you're looking for a powered speaker to create patches and then use as a monitor you really want to try to get one that simulates the frequency response of the PA speakers that are being used, not necessarily one that makes you sound good through the monitor otherwise if you hear a playback of the service you may find that it isn't all what you expected it to be.  We use Axiom In-Ear Monitors that are fed through a separate mixing console so I have learned through blood, sweat and tears I totally can't relay on what I'm hearing to be an accurate representation of what's FOH.  Is this right? No but that is a battle for a different day.  To alleveiate that I bought an EV Live-X 12" Powered Wedge that I can use at home to dial in my patches and just ignore what I think I may be hearing through the monitors at rehearsal or service because otherwise I could be chasing my tail all day.  Just remember that when playing in a full band live FOH you want to carve out the guitar EQ range and not overlap too much bass guitar player or the high mids of the keyboard or cymbals and your guitar will really shine!

     

    Your BIC,

     

    Dave

    • samuelito2011 Just Startin'
      samuelito2011
      105 posts since
      Nov 14, 2011
      Currently Being Moderated
      Apr 14, 2012 8:04 PM (in response to daveschutt)
      Re: I need HELP!!!

      wow thats a good coment i love it...

       

      probably you are right, i created all the sounds or tones in my bedroom using headphone

      SENNHEISER HD428 that i bought on ebay long time ago..... 

       

      And they sound amazing through them. however, i just bought another keyboard amp that will help me to make my sound at my bedroom more live that im expecting... i cant tweak at church cause im not ableto use the PA all by myself anytime just in practice in full bad i get the chance to do it but not in details you know for example adding EQs or thing like that....

       

      if you want to know i bought a Roland KC300, and not the Roland Cm30 cause i considered it too way small and i think is not a good idea cause yesterdat we went to play in ahother place and i was able to hear myself when i was using a marshall with 100 watt.... CM-30 is only 30watt so thats why i decided for the KC300

       

       

      but thanks for the comment and I know even with this amp an my headphone im not going to get the perfect tone but at least could get better if i try it this way

       

      God bless you man

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