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624 Views 12 Replies Latest reply: Apr 25, 2012 6:21 AM by phil_m RSS
Polaris20 Just Startin'
Polaris20
164 posts since
Jan 31, 2007
Currently Being Moderated

Apr 21, 2012 1:03 PM

Line 6 is really being left in the dust

The Kemper profiling preamp is simply amazing; it really does nail the feel and sound of an amp, and the community is already growing rapidly for sharing profiles. Version 6.0 of the AxeFX firmware is coming out, and it too has profiling of amps.

 

I understand that there's an obvious price difference between those boxes and Line 6 stuff. However it would be nice to see the L6 stuff at least try to keep up. For example, we're now in version 2.0 of the firmware, but still there's no third party cab IR option. This, to me, is the number one crippling aspect of the POD series. Anyone who's put an HD through a DAW but used Redwirez impulses knows that.

 

I really like my POD, but it's disappointing to see these other companies innovate while Line 6 largely rest on their laurels.  Just my humble opinion. I'd love to stay with Line 6 because I think the unit itself is designed well, intuitive, and eventually I'd like to get a JTV89, and the integration there is just plain awesome.

  • Tmidiman Just Startin'
    Tmidiman
    33 posts since
    Sep 28, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 22, 2012 5:08 PM (in response to Polaris20)
    Re: Line 6 is really being left in the dust

    Part of me wonders if its a sign of the times. The economy is in the toilet and with local music stores closing and so few people with jobs that can afford to purchase equipment why would companies put in tons of R&D for products that few will purchase?

     

    Something I've noticed is that L6 seems to be more focused with guitar effects than guitar tone. Scrolling through the presets you hear more weird noise than the classic tones they used to focus on in the past. No wonder you see comments here about people trying the new Spider and saying it sound bad. every other sound is a crazy effect set up. That said, maybe they think since you have ALL the effects there is really no need for a ton of updates. You have what’s important, effects, not tones.

     

    OT, personally I can't justify an HD POD after owning a POD X3. I tried one in the stores and it just didn't do anything for me. Musicians act like now the X3 sounds terrible yet no one listening to my music thinks that now its doesn't sound good after the release of the HD. I'll get one if they catch up to the X3 as far as flexibility and features AND I can hear a difference. The presets are where a company can hit a homerun and get you excited about their product or make you think its just another effects box.

    • Akeron Just Startin'
      Akeron
      224 posts since
      Jul 23, 2011
      Currently Being Moderated
      Apr 23, 2012 5:42 AM (in response to Tmidiman)
      Re: Line 6 is really being left in the dust

      Tmidiman wrote:

       

      Something I've noticed is that L6 seems to be more focused with guitar effects than guitar tone. Scrolling through the presets you hear more weird noise than the classic tones they used to focus on in the past.

       

      The presets are where a company can hit a homerun and get you excited about their product or make you think its just another effects box.

      Why are presets so important? I mean in the end the most important thing is how much do you like the general sound. Maybe is me, but presets are always the last thing i test in an unit and I mean everything...

      • Tmidiman Just Startin'
        Tmidiman
        33 posts since
        Sep 28, 2007
        Currently Being Moderated
        Apr 23, 2012 10:28 PM (in response to Akeron)
        Re: Line 6 is really being left in the dust

        Presets are very important. They are the "sales pitch" to the consumer that says,"see how great this can make you sound!?" the first three or so are the most. They give the store's sales team a chance to easily call up great tones to wow the customer into a purchase. If you are not a sales person you may not understand how that first impression can be a lasting one and make or break a sale.

         

        Maybe L6 has forgotten this as well.

         

        Understand that I own a lot of gear and have owned L6 products since the original POD. I actually own two of those, a POD pro, XT, X3, Bass POD Pro, and many other modeler pedals of theirs. I also own effects racks and pedals from Boss, Roland, Korg, Digitech, etc, and design guitar effects.

         

        Taking that into consideration I speak from experience when I say yes the presets play an important roll and yes regarding the Spider IV's presets they do sound not so great. I did buy one, BTW. Not a bad amp, but I do know how to tweak that amp to make it sound ok. Still, I think L6 could have done a much, much better job with the presets.

         

        As for the HD. I didn't say it was bad, just nothing that made me think I had to get one. Reading the list above most likely explains why. I'll have no problem getting one once they have an HD X3, or something like that.

         

        I hope that clarifies my comment.

        • Polaris20 Just Startin'
          Polaris20
          164 posts since
          Jan 31, 2007
          Currently Being Moderated
          Apr 24, 2012 12:12 PM (in response to Tmidiman)
          Re: Line 6 is really being left in the dust

          At the risk of sounding pesimisstic, everyone knows presets from Digitech, Line 6, Boss, etc. are horrid, and shouldn't be taken as examples of how something works. It's disappointing, but it's just the way it is. I don't know what ******* at Line 6 thought the presets in the HD series actually sounded good, but it nearly made me think twice about buying one. Only after trying a friend's HD did I actually realize it actually wasn't a steaming turd.

          • Tmidiman Just Startin'
            Tmidiman
            33 posts since
            Sep 28, 2007
            Currently Being Moderated
            Apr 24, 2012 7:43 PM (in response to Polaris20)
            Re: Line 6 is really being left in the dust

            Sorry, but I have all that gear in my studio right now and I can assure you the presets sound just fine, except the Digitech always has a nasal quality to its sounds.

             

            The good news is you had a chance to hear a device that was tweeked so it would OUn as it should. I have no doubt the HD devices sounds great, even if I'm no looking to get one t his time.

             

            Back OT there is always the hope that L6 reads these threads and gets back to providing examples of great tones along with the other innovations they are working on now. Focusing on that will put them back in the lead. I'd love t talk directly with them for 20 minutes and offer a few suggestions that would get them on the right track in regards to tone, effects, and a better way to present them both to the consumer.

    • Polaris20 Just Startin'
      Polaris20
      164 posts since
      Jan 31, 2007
      Currently Being Moderated
      Apr 23, 2012 12:02 PM (in response to Tmidiman)
      Re: Line 6 is really being left in the dust

      Tmidiman wrote:

       

      Part of me wonders if its a sign of the times. The economy is in the toilet and with local music stores closing and so few people with jobs that can afford to purchase equipment why would companies put in tons of R&D for products that few will purchase?

       

      Something I've noticed is that L6 seems to be more focused with guitar effects than guitar tone. Scrolling through the presets you hear more weird noise than the classic tones they used to focus on in the past. No wonder you see comments here about people trying the new Spider and saying it sound bad. every other sound is a crazy effect set up. That said, maybe they think since you have ALL the effects there is really no need for a ton of updates. You have what’s important, effects, not tones.

       

      OT, personally I can't justify an HD POD after owning a POD X3. I tried one in the stores and it just didn't do anything for me. Musicians act like now the X3 sounds terrible yet no one listening to my music thinks that now its doesn't sound good after the release of the HD. I'll get one if they catch up to the X3 as far as flexibility and features AND I can hear a difference. The presets are where a company can hit a homerun and get you excited about their product or make you think its just another effects box.

      The debate as to whether the HD is worth it over the X3/XT is probably a debate for a different thread (I can't stomach anything pre-HD), but the rest of your comment I think is very relevant. I hope they're simply not stopping here in terms of actual tone, just because of the effects flexibility.

  • Paulaner347 Just Startin'
    Paulaner347
    6 posts since
    Jul 28, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 23, 2012 12:29 AM (in response to Polaris20)
    Re: Line 6 is really being left in the dust

    IMO - do we really need all that fancy stuff? At the end, it's just about the player - and about music! The pod hd sounds & feels pretty nice to my ears - so what? I'm happy with it!

    • Polaris20 Just Startin'
      Polaris20
      164 posts since
      Jan 31, 2007
      Currently Being Moderated
      Apr 23, 2012 12:12 PM (in response to Paulaner347)
      Re: Line 6 is really being left in the dust

      Paulaner347 wrote:

       

      IMO - do we really need all that fancy stuff? At the end, it's just about the player - and about music! The pod hd sounds & feels pretty nice to my ears - so what? I'm happy with it!

      That all depends. Generally I'd agree. One or two extra bells and whistles isn't going to make or break something, and one could even argue that the Axe isn't worth it, given the price and especially if you're happy with the HD sounds as is.

       

      However amplifier profiling, which is effectively do it yourself amp modeling, is revolutionary. Game changing.

       

      Of course, you could argue that I'm being hyperbolic, that DIY amp modeling isn't that big of a deal. But IMHO having access to capture the very amp you've got sitting there, and then record silently is amazing.

  • phil_m Expert Line 6 User
    phil_m
    4,243 posts since
    Jan 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 23, 2012 1:06 PM (in response to Polaris20)
    Re: Line 6 is really being left in the dust

    Do you not think the HD series, the JTV, and the DT amps which can be used all a synced-up rig is pretty freakin' cool? I don't know, I think that's pretty innovative. I don't really see them resting on their laurels so much. I just think that in terms of new product offerings, right now they're trying to expand into some different segments of the market - primarily the live sound stuff. I think, really, that's the biggest thing they've got going for them. They have a diversified product line that offers a bunch of stuff for end users of all types.

     

    I think products like the Kemper and Axe-FX are awesome, but personally, I can't see myself ever wanting to own one. I just don't have the time to put into them to justify the cost. The way I see it, those products automatically have a pretty small target audience. Once they start selling products that are less than $500 that are within reach of the average Guitar Center shopper, it will be a different story.

    • Polaris20 Just Startin'
      Polaris20
      164 posts since
      Jan 31, 2007
      Currently Being Moderated
      Apr 24, 2012 12:17 PM (in response to phil_m)
      Re: Line 6 is really being left in the dust

      phil_m wrote:

       

      Do you not think the HD series, the JTV, and the DT amps which can be used all a synced-up rig is pretty freakin' cool? I don't know, I think that's pretty innovative. I don't really see them resting on their laurels so much. I just think that in terms of new product offerings, right now they're trying to expand into some different segments of the market - primarily the live sound stuff. I think, really, that's the biggest thing they've got going for them. They have a diversified product line that offers a bunch of stuff for end users of all types.

       

      I think products like the Kemper and Axe-FX are awesome, but personally, I can't see myself ever wanting to own one. I just don't have the time to put into them to justify the cost. The way I see it, those products automatically have a pretty small target audience. Once they start selling products that are less than $500 that are within reach of the average Guitar Center shopper, it will be a different story.

      Joining two pieces of gear and controlling them together, but the idea is as old as MIDI and not really innovative. Cool, but not innovative. As for the cost of the Kemper and AFX: well, $1800-$2200 gets you precisely one Mesa, Marshall, or Orange amp. I think that despite them costing ~$2K, these high end modelers are a pretty good value. Sure, we've all become spoiled with the power you can get out of a $500 POD. But the reality is just a few years ago we (well, the "older" folks among us anyway) were happily forking over $2000+ for an amp with two or three good tones max, and then struggling to find ways to record it without getting divorced/evicted/arrested.     

       

      That's not to say the HD series aren't a great value. They are. I just think it would take very little to do a few really cool things to keep people happy.          

      • Tmidiman Just Startin'
        Tmidiman
        33 posts since
        Sep 28, 2007
        Currently Being Moderated
        Apr 24, 2012 7:58 PM (in response to Polaris20)
        Re: Line 6 is really being left in the dust

        Well said.

      • phil_m Expert Line 6 User
        phil_m
        4,243 posts since
        Jan 25, 2007
        Currently Being Moderated
        Apr 25, 2012 6:21 AM (in response to Polaris20)
        Re: Line 6 is really being left in the dust

        Whether or not something is a good value isn't really the question. A $10,000 Pro Tools rig is probably a good value, comparatively speaking, but it's still out of the reach of most people. I understand that there are always going to be players who feel that they have to have the best equipment, and to an extent I can understand that attitude. I'd rather have one $1500 guitar than three $500 ones, for instance. I just think that with digital hardware the math is different. In five years, the piece of digital gear I pay $2000 for now may well be considered obsolete. So will the $500 piece, but that won't hurt as much. It really depends on how much this stuff is worth to people right now. It will be interesting to see how well the Kemper does in the long run. The Axe FX seems like it has a dedicated base of users, but it's not necessarily broken into the mainstream market.

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