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494 Views 30 Replies Latest reply: Aug 20, 2012 10:11 AM by Line6Hugo RSS
esibanjack Just Startin'
esibanjack
35 posts since
Mar 30, 2012
Currently Being Moderated

Jun 15, 2012 4:15 PM

Firmware 1.20 Question, etc.

New to Line6 and new to the board. After procuring a Spider IV 75W (love it for what it is!!) and a Spider IV HD150 (not much love for this one….it went back to GC a few weeks after it was brought home), I've purchased a SV MKII HD. I actually took the time to read a great number of the post going all the way back to the beginning of this board (this board ROCKS by the way…the dedication, patience, and knowledge of the Experts and frequent posters is AMAZING), so I feel I'm pretty familiar with the gripes that some of the folks have had with this amp.

 

One thing I found no mention of is the 1.20 firmware my amp has currently installed. Like most of the people on this board, I am a tone freak, but one of the big reasons I purchased the MKII HD was for the computer editing capabilities and the "All in One" amp/effects set-up. Because of this, I had decided to update to version 2.0 before I ever played through the amp, as many on the board had said great things about the sound of the HD with 2.0, and I figured I couldn't miss something that I never had, right? You can imagine my surprise when "ver 1.20" showed-up on the display when I fired it up to do the update.

 

So, what is "ver 1.20"? Is this just version 1.17 with a few tweaks to shore-up some minor firmware issues, or is it the "Holy Grail" that's going to make this amp sound like a cross between Fergie and Jesus? As far as I can tell, there would be no way for me to roll-back to version 1.20 if I were to overwrite it with 2.0, so I would like to know exactly what it is before doing the update.

 

On a side note, after reading many of the older posts concerning the SV MKI's, it's apparent that many people loved the Strymon "SVPre" mod. When the MKII's were announced there were many posts that talked about a version of the "SVPre" for them that was "just a few months out", but the story pretty much died once Terry left the employ of Strymon. It's obvious that one was never developed, but I'm curious to know if anyone knows exactly why? It's really of no consequence, but for me the answer will be a kind of closure for a character in the Spider Valve "novel" I've been reading over the last several days.

  • spaceatl Expert Line 6 User
    spaceatl
    4,456 posts since
    Jan 24, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 16, 2012 10:55 AM (in response to esibanjack)
    Re: Firmware 1.20 Question, etc.

    Welcome...glad you are finding some useful info here...

     

    You can roll the firmware around all you like...backwards and forwards...The catch is, if you rollback it is very likely that any patch you made would not transfer...You have to reset...Other than that, you can try 1.17 all the way to 2.0. If you settle on something in between, you can do that...

     

    To do rollbacks you just go to the downloads page and download the firmware you want and then in the Monkey choose Update From File...

     

    The SV MK1 is one of my favorite amplifiers ever...and the SVPre really is a great preamp and the right solution for that amplifier. why it never happened in the MK2? I don't know...I have compared my MK2 to my MK1 and they really did improve the input board in the Mk2 to a point where I likely would not bother with it if there was one...no sure on that one...

     

    I did not know that Terry had left Strymon...really like the those Strymon pedals...I love my OB.1...

    • esibanjack Just Startin'
      esibanjack
      35 posts since
      Mar 30, 2012
      Currently Being Moderated
      Jun 17, 2012 9:36 AM (in response to spaceatl)
      Re: Firmware 1.20 Question, etc.

      Thanks for the response, but it appears that it won't be so easy to "rollback" to version 1.20, if need be. As far as I can see, there are options on the download page for firmware versions 1.17, 1.50, and 2.0, but there is no option for 1.20. Am I missing something? If not, I really need to know what's up with version 1.20 (ie: how it differs from the other versions) before I do any firmware updates.

       

      Perhaps this is a question that needs to be answered by a Line6 guy??

      • spaceatl Expert Line 6 User
        spaceatl
        4,456 posts since
        Jan 24, 2007
        Currently Being Moderated
        Jun 17, 2012 10:42 AM (in response to esibanjack)
        Re: Firmware 1.20 Question, etc.

        I agree...Only Line 6 can answer this one...I wonder why this is not published...

         

        I can't really remember anything about a 1.20...My amp was loaded with 1.17 when I got it as I recall...great question! I am curious about this also...

  • esibanjack Just Startin'
    esibanjack
    35 posts since
    Mar 30, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 19, 2012 11:13 AM (in response to esibanjack)
    Re: Firmware 1.20 Question, etc.

    Just an FYI that it appears that the Line6 tech guys no longer monitor the message boards, so I've submitted a support ticket to try to get an answer on the version 1.20 question. I'll update as soon as I hear from them.

    • Line6Tony Line 6 Support
      Line6Tony
      1,917 posts since
      Jan 16, 2007
      Currently Being Moderated
      Jun 19, 2012 1:33 PM (in response to esibanjack)
      Re: Firmware 1.20 Question, etc.

      As it stands, there's no information readily available on this firmware version. We will check with other personnel to try to find something we can post here. Was the amp purchased new or used?

      • esibanjack Just Startin'
        esibanjack
        35 posts since
        Mar 30, 2012
        Currently Being Moderated
        Jun 19, 2012 4:34 PM (in response to Line6Tony)
        Re: Firmware 1.20 Question, etc.

        The head was bought brand new from a GC in California about a month ago. There was another poster a few months back that also stated he had version 1.20, but he was not asking specifically what it was. My concern with just blindly updating to 2.0 is that it appears that I couldn't get 1.20 back if I decided I wanted to do so. As I stated in my original post, I spent a considerable amount of time reading the posts on this board, and the problems people were having with these units (sound delay and/or "pops" when switching channels, faulty tuner, gripes with tone after updates) is well documented. If version 1.20 cured some (or all) of these issues I would hate to take a "step back" by updating to 2.0.

        • mtnman82 Just Startin'
          mtnman82
          162 posts since
          Mar 15, 2008
          Currently Being Moderated
          Jun 20, 2012 10:15 PM (in response to esibanjack)
          Re: Firmware 1.20 Question, etc.

          Have you tried installing the Monkey & Edit software and plugging it into the computer?  Firmware won't change from simply making the USB connection ...

          • esibanjack Just Startin'
            esibanjack
            35 posts since
            Mar 30, 2012
            Currently Being Moderated
            Jun 21, 2012 9:45 AM (in response to mtnman82)
            Re: Firmware 1.20 Question, etc.

            I'm not really sure what the point of that would be. Unless I update to 1.50 or 2.0 there's really no reason to hook the head up to a computer, as you can't use the edit software or get the additional effects unless you do the update.

            • mtnman82 Just Startin'
              mtnman82
              162 posts since
              Mar 15, 2008
              Currently Being Moderated
              Jun 21, 2012 6:34 PM (in response to esibanjack)
              Re: Firmware 1.20 Question, etc.

              That IS the point - to see if 1.20 really is the 'Holy Grail' version that has Edit capability with the 1.17 tone!  If you hook it up to the computer and you can use Edit it just may be.  If you hook it up and Edit doesn't see it, then obviously no Edit capability.

               

              If you CAN talk to Edit with 1.20, the next step would be to look at the available effects to see if it's the baseline (i.e. 1.17) setup or if you have some of the 'infusion' effects...  Heck, have you checked to see if you have only the baseline effects or if you have more?  You can do that without even hooking up to the computer.

              • esibanjack Just Startin'
                esibanjack
                35 posts since
                Mar 30, 2012
                Currently Being Moderated
                Jun 22, 2012 9:18 AM (in response to mtnman82)
                Re: Firmware 1.20 Question, etc.

                Now I understand your point. I had just assumed that Line6 wouldn't offer the extra effects in the amp "as shipped", as it takes away from their money-making potential of selling you the necessary shortboard to download them (yes I know you can also do this via MIDI, but most owners are still going to opt for the shortboard for it's easy "plug and play" capability), but I guess anything is possible. Also, while it ultimately won't answer my question about what exactly version 1.20 is, you make a great point that I should actually take a moment to see what effects the amp currently has, which I (stupidly) have not done. I'll do some investigating and report back, but in the meantime, MAYBE SOMEONE FROM LINE6 WILL STEP-UP AND ANSWER THE ORIGINAL QUESTION??? It shouldn't be too hard to look-up the SpiderValve firmware versions to see what each one entails.

              • esibanjack Just Startin'
                esibanjack
                35 posts since
                Mar 30, 2012
                Currently Being Moderated
                Jun 23, 2012 10:19 AM (in response to mtnman82)
                Re: Firmware 1.20 Question, etc.

                I checked the amp and only the "stock" effects are there, so version 1.20 does not have all of the "infusion" effects. Looks like I am still at square one waiting on Line6 for an answer.

  • esibanjack Just Startin'
    esibanjack
    35 posts since
    Mar 30, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 26, 2012 10:07 AM (in response to esibanjack)
    Re: Firmware 1.20 Question, etc.

    ………come on Line6, this shouldn't be a tough question to answer, yet a week has gone by with no answer on this thread and no response to my support ticket. I'm stuck in a "Catch-22" until I get an answer, as I won't be able to roll-back to version 1.20 if version 2.0 is unsatisfactory.

     

    How does firmware 1.20 differ from 1.17 (ie: what was added and/or what issues were fixed)?

  • esibanjack Just Startin'
    esibanjack
    35 posts since
    Mar 30, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 2, 2012 11:39 AM (in response to esibanjack)
    Re: Firmware 1.20 Question, etc.

    So here's the response I got to my support ticket (see below)……

     

    Hi, I'm pretty sure you mean version 1.50. Here are the release notes:

     

    SPIDER FX INFUSION v1.50 is a free firmware upgrade for your Spider Valve MkII 112, 212, and HD100. It requires the registration of either of the USB-equipped FBV Shortboard MkII or FBV Express MII foot-controllers to enable connectivity to the amp, or the Spider Valve MkII itself if you are performing the update via MIDI. This new firmware features:

     

    * 28 new FX Models (Stomps, Comps, Mods, Delays, Reverbs and Wahs)

    * Compatibility with the new Spider Valve MkII Edit application

    * Effect menus have Model Select parameter

    * Manual + A, B, C, or Quick Loop controls Effect bypass from front panel

    * Minor bug fixes

     

    2.0: SPIDER FX INFUSION v2.0 is a free firmware upgrade for your Spider Valve MkII 112, 212, and HD100. It requires the purchase and registration of either of the USB equipped FBV Shortboard MkII or FBV Express MkII foot-controllers to enable computer connectivity to the amp. This new firmware features:

    * A total of 56 FX Models, bringing the total in your updated amp to 76! (All the FX from Spider FX Infusion 1.52 plus 28 more Stomps, Comps, Mods, Delays, Reverbs and Wahs)

    * Continued compatibility (added with 1.52) with Spider Valve MkII Edit

     

    If there was a 1.20 version it would be a bug fix update between 1.17 and 1.50.

     

    Thanks, David

     

    ARE YOU SERIOUS LINE6??????? ALMOST TWO WEEKS TO RESPOND AND YOU BASICALLY JUST ACCUSE ME OF HAVING NO IDEA WHAT I'M LOOKING AT??? THIS GUY "DAVID" DOESN'T EVEN KNOW IF VERSION 1.20 EXISTS, AND THEN OFFERS A LAME RESPONSE THAT IF IT DID EXIST IT WOULD HAVE JUST BEEN BUG FIXES FOR VERSION 1.17??? WOULDN'T ANY "BUG FIXES" FOR VERSION 1.17 BEEN TAKEN CARE OF WITH VERSION 1.50, OR CERTAINLY BY VERSION 2.0??? VERSION 1.20 WAS CREATED AFTER VERSION 2.0!!!!  AND IS THE FIRMWARE VERSION THAT THE LATEST MODELS OF THE MKII's ARE LEAVING THE FACTORY WITH!!!!!

     

    WHAT A JOKE!!!!!

     

    COME ON LINE6….WHAT ARE THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN FIRMWARE VERSION 1.17 AND VERSION 1.20?????

    • spaceatl Expert Line 6 User
      spaceatl
      4,456 posts since
      Jan 24, 2007
      Currently Being Moderated
      Jun 29, 2012 12:22 PM (in response to esibanjack)
      Re: Firmware 1.20 Question, etc.

      I think this is just a hardware rev version mark...likely no different than 1.17...A very common practice when there are slight changes to a hardware revision and there is overlap in the factory where both revs are in play....Anyway, that is my guess...

      • esibanjack Just Startin'
        esibanjack
        35 posts since
        Mar 30, 2012
        Currently Being Moderated
        Jun 29, 2012 2:02 PM (in response to spaceatl)
        Re: Firmware 1.20 Question, etc.

        Thanks for the response. Any "best guess" on what kind of hardware revision that might have been done? I know you don't work for Line6 and wouldn't have any privileged information, but it sounds like you are pretty in-tune with the SpiderValves and might know their "parts and pieces" enough to make an educated guess.

        • spaceatl Expert Line 6 User
          spaceatl
          4,456 posts since
          Jan 24, 2007
          Currently Being Moderated
          Jun 29, 2012 2:45 PM (in response to esibanjack)
          Re: Firmware 1.20 Question, etc.

          I don't work for Line 6, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night...

           

          It could be anything really...I am a software engineer during the day and 15 years ago I work on an embedded smart card system...We did this very thing on the readers we had manufactered...This is no where near the complexity of a Line 6 DSP board, but sometimes we would have a small revision like an alternative VR, cap, screws or something....and we would send the board maker a bumped revision so that when they shipped them to us and we did our in house QA we would know just by turning it on there this represented a certain revision...

           

          I am just guessing...I think it is good that you are asking the question...Perhaps it will find someone in Line 6 that knows the answer...I hope that happens as I am curious about it...

           

          Another possibility is that it could be purely a manufacturing thing...It may be that 1.20 it is just unpublished (non-public) firmware and it is Line 6's way of knowing if you flashed your amp or not...In this case, Line 6 might not say anything about it...I can understand why they might if this is the case....again, these are only guesses...

          • Line6Tony Line 6 Support
            Line6Tony
            1,917 posts since
            Jan 16, 2007
            Currently Being Moderated
            Jul 2, 2012 12:16 PM (in response to spaceatl)
            Re: Firmware 1.20 Question, etc.

            I'm sorry you haven't received a response in a week, but I just returned from vacation. David was only trying to help, and probably thought you meant version 1.50 because no one ever asks us about version 1.20. I'm still looking for the answer. Based on how how my QA guy did not see 1.20 in the release system, I'd have to say that version is not very different at all from 1.17, and updating/rolling back would be inconsequential. Also, the product manager who would have known is no longer with the company, so I can't say if /when we will definitively answer your question, but I will continue the search.

             

            What does Monkey report as the firmware version?

  • esibanjack Just Startin'
    esibanjack
    35 posts since
    Mar 30, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 3, 2012 11:52 AM (in response to esibanjack)
    Re: Firmware 1.20 Question, etc.

    Well, Line6 closed my second support ticket with this answer:

     

    1.17 and 1.20 were early versions of the firmware (with non-public bug fixes being the difference between them) that were pulled because those versions of the firmware are NOT supported by any version of Spider IV Edit software.  For this reason, only 1.52 and higher flash memory are available.

     

    Regards,

    Line6Hugo

     

    I now have to question if these guys have any idea what they're doing. First, I don't believe that version 1.20 is an "early version" of the firmware. I've read just about every page of the SpiderValve message board, and while 1.17 is mentioned all the way back to the beginning of the MkII threads as the default firmware, version 1.20 didn't appear until a just few months ago.....well after the release of 2.0. Second, "only 1.52 and higher flash memory are available".....really, Line6? Does your support staff really not know THAT I CAN GO AND DOWNLOAD VERSION 1.17 OFF YOUR WEBSITE RIGHT NOW???????? How can I trust that these guys have any idea what they're talking about if they don't even know this???

     

    At this point it's probably fruitless to continue to try to get an answer, but I'm honestly amused enough with this whole situation to see just exactly how it's ultimately going to play-out if I just keep pushing.......

     

    Line6, what was the release date of firmware version 1.20, and how EXACTLY does it differ from version 1.17?

    • Line6Tony Line 6 Support
      Line6Tony
      1,917 posts since
      Jan 16, 2007
      Currently Being Moderated
      Jul 3, 2012 2:43 PM (in response to esibanjack)
      Re: Firmware 1.20 Question, etc.

      I have been told by QA that 1.20 is a non-public version, and that you will not be missing anything sonically if you roll back to 1.17. Additionally, 1.20 was not a version that addressed any bugs. This is all I could get from QA, so I will not pursue this any further.

       

      Also, I notice that you have three separate tickets talking about this issue. To avoid further confusion, it is best that you conversate with me on this thread instead of those tickets. I have closed the last of them as a duplicate ticket.

      • esibanjack Just Startin'
        esibanjack
        35 posts since
        Mar 30, 2012
        Currently Being Moderated
        Jul 3, 2012 4:33 PM (in response to Line6Tony)
        Re: Firmware 1.20 Question, etc.

        You guys are just a myriad of contradictions. One tech says 1.20 doesn't exist, another says 1.20 is an ancient update to 1.17 (and believes you can't still download 1.17), and a third says 1.20 is a non-public version that didn't change anything sonically and also didn't address any bugs (if this is true, it makes you wonder why it even exists…). I'm also being told to converse on this thread when it comes to this issue instead of submitting a support ticket, even though the announcement at the top of the forum page clearly states that these types of questions should be handled with one (see below).

         

        Certainly not filling me with a whole lot of confidence here, Line6.....

         

         

        Hello Line 6ers.

         

        We want you to know that we’re changing how we provide you support. Previously, our forums were used as the mechanism to ask the Line 6 tech support staff and the community at large a question. The forums are still a good place to find advice about tone, computer configuration, and subjective questions about sound and application from other Line 6 users. The way to ask our tech support staff a direct question now is via a support ticket.

        • spaceatl Expert Line 6 User
          spaceatl
          4,456 posts since
          Jan 24, 2007
          Currently Being Moderated
          Jul 3, 2012 4:39 PM (in response to esibanjack)
          Re: Firmware 1.20 Question, etc.

          Hey man, Tony gave you an answer...It might be the one you or I were hoping for...

           

          You should try to keep a little perspective...Tony worked your issue...He went on vacation, someone tried to fill in for him and give an answer...granted it was not an answer you wanted. Tony followed up with you when he returned from his vacation...

           

          1.20 is a non-public version. Time to move on bro...

          • esibanjack Just Startin'
            esibanjack
            35 posts since
            Mar 30, 2012
            Currently Being Moderated
            Jul 5, 2012 9:55 AM (in response to spaceatl)
            Re: Firmware 1.20 Question, etc.

            I appreciate that you take the time to visit the board, and you and the other expert users are invaluable in providing answers to most of the questions posted here, so I hope you take my response to your latest post as it is intended.

             

            Exactly what answer were you and I looking for here? I certainly can't speak for you, but what I am looking for is the CORRECT answer. Granted, if Tony had come back with his answer right away I probably would have bought it and closed the thread. But after getting three different answers from three different techs, why should I now assume that his is correct? Has anything I've seen on this thread or in the responses to my support tickets given me any reason to do so? From my "perspective", it appears that these guys don't have a clue what they're doing, and I don't believe that this should be the case when asking a very simple question about a pretty expensive piece of gear.

            • TheRealZap Expert Line 6 User
              TheRealZap
              11,829 posts since
              Dec 22, 2006
              Currently Being Moderated
              Jul 5, 2012 10:04 AM (in response to esibanjack)
              Re: Firmware 1.20 Question, etc.

              not that i'm debating your perspective....

              just that most companies that i deal with (in the IT world specifically) would tell you that they only support the latest firmware, and that you'd be on your own with any earlier version...

              i know that some prefer the older FW in this instance... and the IT world isn't a direct apples to apples comparison...

              just saying you got further with this question than i'd have got posing a similar question to IBM for instance...

            • Line6Tony Line 6 Support
              Line6Tony
              1,917 posts since
              Jan 16, 2007
              Currently Being Moderated
              Jul 5, 2012 10:26 AM (in response to esibanjack)
              Re: Firmware 1.20 Question, etc.

              I'm sorry if this experience in getting an answer to your question hasn't been the best for you. It is your choice at this point to believe what I, as supervisor of the department, am telling you. I was able to research this, as I mentioned previously, and got the answer. Your question may have been simple, but the assumption was that getting an answer to an unpublished bit of infromation would be as well.

               

              I apologize for the two other reps misinterpreting your question: one believed you were talking about the 1.50 firmware, and the other believed you were talking about the Spider IV. With that said, please disregard their comments.

               

              Also, the reason I've asked you to constrain the conversation to one thread instead of one thread and three tickets is for the sake of organization. Yes, we'd like certain questions to be asked of us directly via a ticket, but since the subject was already out in the public view when you made your first ticket, it makes the most sense to carry the conversation through to completion for the benefit of anyone else asking the same question.

              • esibanjack Just Startin'
                esibanjack
                35 posts since
                Mar 30, 2012
                Currently Being Moderated
                Jul 5, 2012 2:05 PM (in response to Line6Tony)
                Re: Firmware 1.20 Question, etc.

                As "supervisor of the department", I hope you weren't the one responsible for training those two. The only thing worse than no answer to a question is the WRONG answer, and you must understand that when this happens it brings the credibility of your entire support program into question. Granted, in this case the question was pretty harmless and the end result was just a bit of frustration for me, but the "wrong" answer to the "right" question could potentially put someone's gear, and possibly themselves, at risk. My suggestion would be to use this as an opportunity to better educate your staff on how to do their job, and I'll hope that any future questions I might have are handled better than this one was.

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