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579 Views 12 Replies Latest reply: Aug 21, 2012 8:08 AM by fflbrgst RSS
QsBlues Just Startin' 81 posts since
Feb 1, 2007
Currently Being Moderated

Aug 10, 2012 6:53 AM

Tube amps with Pod Farm in a DAW

As most guitarists, I love tube amps.  Nothing compares to running a tube amp flat out and hearing that tone.  Line 6 has done a great job at leading the bleeding edge of amp modelling technology, but there is still something missing with the tone, no matter what monitors I use.  Something subtle, like a cork-sniffing character with fine wine.

 

Having so many options often leads me down the road of ear fatigue.  I keep chasing, "THAT tone" that I hear in my head, and I bought all the model packs and add ons I could to supplant my Pod Farm program.  Nothing quite got me there, no matter what combination of amp, speaker, mic ,effect or whatnot in Pod Farm, nor did the monitors, which are as good as I could afford when I bought them; they're as dead flat as my room will allow as well.

 

So, what do I do?  Get creative, that's what ...

 

I've addressed this previously, and I'm quite astonished that no one else has tried it and replied with their results.  Here's what I did ...

 

I have a KB37, and it is the centerpiece of my modest home project studio.  It does everything that I need, and it's a keyboard controller to boot.  Great piece of gear Line 6!  Anyway, it came with Pod Farm, as we all know.  Like everyone else that gets a Pod Studio piece of gear, I plugged into the instrument input and started exploring the guitar tones.  Good stuff ... REALLY good stuff.  I can tweak anything, add EQ, adjust the noise gate, fenangle the signal chain any way I want ... TWICE since it has two signal paths.  I can even use my bass!  Fantastic!  I was in love!

 

Meanwhile, my prized tube amps are sitting in a corner, neglected until I walk over, plug in and turn them up.  No effects, but righteous tone!

 

So I got to thinking, how do I use both?  And here's what I came up with:  I plugged straight into my Carvin V3M head, ran the effects loop send into a line input of the KB37, ran an output to the effects loop return, and then launched Pod Farm in my Mac.  I chose the appropriate input in the mixer, selected some effects, and .... I was blown away by how good it sounded.  My quest was over.  I found the PERFECT tone!

 

Tube amp juice with 24/96 effect models from Line 6!  It was too good to be true, but here it is!  My whole world has changed regarding dialing up tones.  I've even gotten adventurous and added a vintage Twin as a second stereo output from the KB37, so I can hear stereo effects.  All fed from my Carvin tube amp's effects loop.  Then I got a Rapco A/B box to switch between the two, and I can truly say that this is the most flexible rig I've ever owned.  I can now dial up ANY tone ... Dumble, Boogie, Buddha, Dr. Z, DB13, Gibson, small Tweed, Class A ... they're all there, with a tube amp driving it all.  IN STEREO, no less ...

 

Granted, it took a long time of tweaking to get it; since the V3M is a 3 channel amp, I had to spend considerable time adjusting the channels.  I have all my tones mapped to what channel I use.  Clean tones and effects heavy patches are on the clean channel, slight effects and grit are on channel 2, and the balls out screaming lead tones with or without effects are on the lead channel.  It's amazing!  Keep in mind, YMMV ...

 

In order to do this, you'll need the following:

1.  A computer with Pod Farm installed

2.  A Line 6 compatible device

3. A tube amp or combo

4. a whole bunch of cables; at least 3 to make the connections

 

Presuming that you have a speaker setup already connected to your computer, you can audition all the Pod Farm sounds, right?

Now, this will work any KB37; don't know if it will work with UX2, GuitarPort, or any other hardware, but it's worth checking out if you have the right inputs/outputs.  And yes, this method will work with both series and parallel effects loops in your amp.  Just adjust to taste.

 

Now, start off with a clean channel on your amp.  Pick any effect and drop it into the chain.  You'll hear a big difference!  Add more, and more, and more ... amps, cabs, mics, chorus, delay, if your computer can handle it, it will process the sounds.

 

You now have clean, glitch free, noise free, digital models of amps and effects with YOUR tube amp tone.

 

And yes, it WILL print to your DAW.  You can use it as a plug in if you like, or run it straight into it and print the tone you have.  You can even mic the speaker and have another option, or run it stereo in if you have another tube amp.  It opens up the flexibility of Pod Farm exponentially.  It's a great trick, and it may save you some $$ when it comes to buying effects for your tube amp.  Personally, I plan on buying the FBV Shortboard MKII for my computer studio setup.  I really wanted an M13 to do the same thing that this post is about, but this trick does the job!  I just saved $500.00!  Granted, when playing live, I'm not gonna hump my computer to the gig, and I will still buy the M13 for live gigs, but my studio setup for guitar is now complete.

 

It's a great tweak to an already killer setup.  Highly recommended if you're adventurous enough.  Let me hear about your results!

 

Q

  • cjl5150 Just Startin' 2 posts since
    May 28, 2009
    Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 10, 2012 8:30 AM (in response to QsBlues)
    Re: Tube amps with Pod Farm in a DAW

    What input are you using?  You said to 'choose the appropriate input'.  Thanks.

  • fflbrgst Power User 1,292 posts since
    Mar 6, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 10, 2012 10:45 AM (in response to QsBlues)
    Re: Tube amps with Pod Farm in a DAW

    How do you run the AMP signal to your DAW?  Assume you are micing a speaker?   I guess it would work using PodFarm in standalone mode, because otherwise, your DAW cannot recognize 2 USB devices at once, so you would need an audio interface besides your KB37. (The exception to this might be running some DAWs on a MAC).

     

    I did what you suggest when I first got my GuitarPort, running it's stereo output to an adapter and into my old vintage Fender Bandmaster.  Of course, the amp never got real clean tones due to its age (and 25 year old tubes!), but never-the-less I could experiment with the delays, choruses, etc until my wife said the inevitable 'turn it down!'

      • fflbrgst Power User 1,292 posts since
        Mar 6, 2011
        Currently Being Moderated
        Aug 15, 2012 5:37 AM (in response to QsBlues)
        Re: Tube amps with Pod Farm in a DAW

        Please explain how to run multiple USB inputs to a DAW with a Windows (7) machine without some type of external combiner device.  Soundlfower is only for MAC, the Korg unit seems to be an external MIDI synth, not sure why it would be used to connect multiple USB devices? 

        I use Reaper.  The only option is 1 audio input device at a time.  You can also select 1 MIDI device.  You can have multiple devices hooked up to the computer, but can only select 1 at a time.   Everything I have read from other home recorders (forums at homerecording.com) indicates other DAWs are the same on Windows machines.

        • Triryche Expert Line 6 User 3,698 posts since
          Feb 20, 2007
          Currently Being Moderated
          Aug 15, 2012 6:52 AM (in response to fflbrgst)
          Re: Tube amps with Pod Farm in a DAW

          QsBlues wrote:

          "In fact, any pro level DAW will recognize and process as many USB sources as your computer can handle, if you set it up properly. "

           

          Actually, in the PC world, you can only select one ASIO input device at a time. There are a few exceptions in which some USB Audio interface manufactures have drives that allow you to combine more than one of the same type of their interfaces as an aggregated device, however, (up to) Windows 7 can not do this natively like Mac. There are other work arounds, but they are not truly ASIO, which is what you really want (need) for recording otherwise things get a bit squirrelly .

          • TheRealZap Expert Line 6 User 11,829 posts since
            Dec 22, 2006
            Currently Being Moderated
            Aug 20, 2012 8:34 AM (in response to Triryche)
            Re: Tube amps with Pod Farm in a DAW

            not entirely true... you can use multiple inputs from multiple usb devices... most of the problem comes in that you can only monitor those inputs from the actual device.... this use is impractical for many, and therefore many daws do not allow this, having to set the overall ASIO device for the program... some daws allow you to set the device per track.

             

            its not really a windows vs mac limitation... its part of the hardware specs...

            in order to achieve latency within those specs you have to have the same hardware (and its associated hardware clock controlling the timing) for both the inputs and outputs...

            just because apple allows you to break this spec and do it anyway... does not make it better....

            in fact for the best results you really need a single device to do all your inputs and outputs even on a mac...

             

            just because you can do something.... doesn't mean it's the best results or within specifications.

             

            in fact you CAN do the same thing on a PC... if you wanted iffy results, and don't mind taking a chance that you'd have some digital timing issues baked into your tracks.

             

            and NO... i will not help anyone accomplish this... i've done it, I know it can be done...

            no desire to support this or help you produce lower quality output... just because you can.

            • Triryche Expert Line 6 User 3,698 posts since
              Feb 20, 2007
              Currently Being Moderated
              Aug 20, 2012 8:56 AM (in response to TheRealZap)
              Re: Tube amps with Pod Farm in a DAW

              So you're saying on a Mac it is a function of the software?

              I always thought it was native.

              • TheRealZap Expert Line 6 User 11,829 posts since
                Dec 22, 2006
                Currently Being Moderated
                Aug 20, 2012 10:22 AM (in response to Triryche)
                Re: Tube amps with Pod Farm in a DAW

                the software being OSX yes... it's OSX that allows that type of use.

                OSX uses a version of ASIO called coreaudio, the core audio spec allows for aggregate devices... (using multiple cards)

                even though this is easy and possible... it doesn't override the hardware specifications of the devices, or the reasons behind making the specification.... (control latency and digital quality etc)

                being that its natively capable of doing this... OSX handles it better than the 3rd party reverse engineered windows attempts...

                but it's still not something i would endorse doing...

                if you're serious about your recordings... get an interface that meets your needs... that's my advice.

    • Triryche Expert Line 6 User 3,698 posts since
      Feb 20, 2007
      Currently Being Moderated
      Aug 20, 2012 8:13 AM (in response to QsBlues)
      Re: Tube amps with Pod Farm in a DAW

      QsBlues wrote:

       

       

      I don't understand why PC's can only select one input device at a time.  This baffles me, which is why I run a Mac platform.

      Yeah, you would think Windows would resolve this to be more competitive with Macs for audio recording. I'm not 100% sure, but I do not think this has been addressed in Windows 8 yet.

    • fflbrgst Power User 1,292 posts since
      Mar 6, 2011
      Currently Being Moderated
      Aug 21, 2012 8:08 AM (in response to QsBlues)
      Re: Tube amps with Pod Farm in a DAW

      As RealZap mentions, the issues of latency and system/device timing can rear their ugly heads when using multiple USB devices.

       

      You would not want to use a USB mixer when recordign - it will take your multiple inputs and MIX THEM into a smaller number of tracks, so you will lose the ability to track each input separately.

      If you mean a mixer that takes multiple USB inputs and combines them into a single USB output, I have never seen such a device.

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